The Ford Barn

Willynch · 01-14-2017, 03:48 PM

Im relatively new to the Model A and not much of a mechanic however I am learning and enjoying.

Tried starting the car the other day. It turned over a few times somewhat reluctantly in the Michigan 15 degree morning. Then the starter begin to "whir" at what sounds like a fast rate but no longer turning over the engine.

Im assuming something has broken/become disengaged between starter and engine.

Im not sure where to go from here.

Take the starter out?

Im on my own without anyone to really help me.

I mean my wife will laugh but that really isn't helpful.

Looking for a place to begin to troubleshoot and then repair.

Thanks

A31Woody · 01-14-2017, 03:56 PM

Sounds like the bendex gear broke.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

wmws · 01-14-2017, 04:16 PM

I would disconnect the battery and remove the starter. See what is going on with the bendix. It could be broken or if your lucky it may just need a little lube so it kicks in. Keep track of which bolt goes where on the starter and when you put it back together put them in the same place. They are not all the same length.

Dick Steinkamp · 01-14-2017, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmws

Keep track of which bolt goes where on the starter and when you put it back together put them in the same place. They are not all the same length.

All three bolts that attach the starter to to the flywheel housing are 3/8-16 x1 (or should be).

Bill in NJ · 01-14-2017, 04:44 PM

May be you could also take a couple of pictures of the starter when out and show us ?

RRW · 01-14-2017, 06:04 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

4 months ago I had a similar whirring problem after installing a new starter bendix assembly from Bert's.
Bert's advised me to remove starter, remove excess assembly grease from their 'shelf storage protection' and spray with WD-40.
I have had no problem since.

Tom Wesenberg · 01-14-2017, 06:29 PM

You should have nothing more than a very thin oil on the helix so the drive pinion can spin into engagement. Any heavy oil or grease on the helix will not allow the pinion to slid on the helix. The idea is the quick start of the spinning armature will spin the stationary pinion up the helix, but heavy oil or dirt won't allow that. My 28 has just enough oil on the helix to slow the pinion so if the temp drops below about 45* I'd have to do several quick bumps on the starter foot pedal to make the pinion jog it's way up the helix. I don't drive the Phaeton when the temp is below 50*, so it's no big deal.

I'd guess you may have sheared or had a Bendix spring bolt fall out of place. Remove the starter to check. The longer bolt goes in the very end of the armature shaft to lock the spring into place on the shaft.

Mitch//pa · 01-14-2017, 08:41 PM

Ck the ring gear for proper position and the fly wheel teeth also..

katy · 01-15-2017, 12:08 PM

What weight oil is in the engine? If it's heavier than 10W30 you're risking damage to your engine by starting it at 15° F.

Big hammer · 01-15-2017, 08:23 PM

What could have broken your starter, last fall model A days i noticed most all cars parked with the advance levers in the postion when running! I so much wanted to move the levers up. But I didn't, its easy to forget to move the spark advance lever up before starting, especially when you haven't driven the cars lately or at a car show. I try to remember to move it up when I shut her off.

SeaSlugs · 01-16-2017, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big hammer

What could have broken your starter, last fall model A days i noticed most all cars parked with the advance levers in the postion when running! I so much wanted to move the levers up. But I didn't, its easy to forget to move the spark advance lever up before starting, especially when you haven't driven the cars lately or at a car show. I try to remember to move it up when I shut her off.

i like to let mine idle fully retarded for a few seconds then i shut the gas valve off then let it die then remember to shut ign off...

TerryH · 01-16-2017, 11:01 AM

I also turn my engine off after a few seconds running retarded, and my pre-start routine is to always be sure it is fully retarded, along with setting the GAV to the right starting position.

100IH · 01-16-2017, 11:34 AM

If nothing looks broken or missing, put the starter back in after cleaning as mentioned by Tom W. Know that the cold weather is death on batteries. Charge the battery, paying attention to polarity. When starting the engine, the bendix needs to hit hard to engage with the flywheel. A low battery can turn the starter slow enough to not run the pinion gear on the threaded shaft for engagement.

01-14-2017, 03:48 PM	#1
Willynch Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Dexter,MI Posts: 68	starter problems Im relatively new to the Model A and not much of a mechanic however I am learning and enjoying. Tried starting the car the other day. It turned over a few times somewhat reluctantly in the Michigan 15 degree morning. Then the starter begin to "whir" at what sounds like a fast rate but no longer turning over the engine. Im assuming something has broken/become disengaged between starter and engine. Im not sure where to go from here. Take the starter out? Im on my own without anyone to really help me. I mean my wife will laugh but that really isn't helpful. Looking for a place to begin to troubleshoot and then repair. Thanks

01-14-2017, 03:56 PM	#2
A31Woody Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Sunnyvale, CA Posts: 136	Re: starter problems Sounds like the bendex gear broke. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ Our 1931 Station Wagon: Originally restored in 1962, redone in the early 1980's, brought back to life in 1997 and refreshed in 2016/2017. Check out the progress at a31woody.com

01-14-2017, 04:16 PM	#3
wmws BANNED Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Coatesville, Pa Posts: 719	Re: starter problems I would disconnect the battery and remove the starter. See what is going on with the bendix. It could be broken or if your lucky it may just need a little lube so it kicks in. Keep track of which bolt goes where on the starter and when you put it back together put them in the same place. They are not all the same length.

01-14-2017, 04:44 PM	#5
Bill in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,159	Re: starter problems May be you could also take a couple of pictures of the starter when out and show us ?

01-14-2017, 06:04 PM	#6
RRW Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Bullhead City, AZ Posts: 62	Re: starter problems Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) 4 months ago I had a similar whirring problem after installing a new starter bendix assembly from Bert's. Bert's advised me to remove starter, remove excess assembly grease from their 'shelf storage protection' and spray with WD-40. I have had no problem since.

01-14-2017, 06:29 PM	#7
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: starter problems You should have nothing more than a very thin oil on the helix so the drive pinion can spin into engagement. Any heavy oil or grease on the helix will not allow the pinion to slid on the helix. The idea is the quick start of the spinning armature will spin the stationary pinion up the helix, but heavy oil or dirt won't allow that. My 28 has just enough oil on the helix to slow the pinion so if the temp drops below about 45* I'd have to do several quick bumps on the starter foot pedal to make the pinion jog it's way up the helix. I don't drive the Phaeton when the temp is below 50*, so it's no big deal. I'd guess you may have sheared or had a Bendix spring bolt fall out of place. Remove the starter to check. The longer bolt goes in the very end of the armature shaft to lock the spring into place on the shaft.

01-14-2017, 08:41 PM	#8
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: starter problems Ck the ring gear for proper position and the fly wheel teeth also..

01-15-2017, 12:08 PM	#9
katy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Red Deer, Alberta Posts: 5,046	Re: starter problems What weight oil is in the engine? If it's heavier than 10W30 you're risking damage to your engine by starting it at 15° F. __________________ If you don't hear a rumor by 10 AM, start one!. Got my education out behind the barn!

01-15-2017, 08:23 PM	#10
Big hammer Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Land of Lincoln Posts: 3,131	Re: starter problems What could have broken your starter, last fall model A days i noticed most all cars parked with the advance levers in the postion when running! I so much wanted to move the levers up. But I didn't, its easy to forget to move the spark advance lever up before starting, especially when you haven't driven the cars lately or at a car show. I try to remember to move it up when I shut her off.

01-16-2017, 11:01 AM	#12
TerryH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fountain Valley, Calif. Posts: 937	Re: starter problems I also turn my engine off after a few seconds running retarded, and my pre-start routine is to always be sure it is fully retarded, along with setting the GAV to the right starting position.

01-16-2017, 11:34 AM	#13
100IH Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: SW Idaho Posts: 970	Re: starter problems If nothing looks broken or missing, put the starter back in after cleaning as mentioned by Tom W. Know that the cold weather is death on batteries. Charge the battery, paying attention to polarity. When starting the engine, the bendix needs to hit hard to engage with the flywheel. A low battery can turn the starter slow enough to not run the pinion gear on the threaded shaft for engagement.