Drained my oil today...

[Ianrhall]

Drained the oil from engine and gearbox today, 59ab motor
Gearbox oil was quite thin and looked like it had mud mixed into it!
Poked a finger in motor drain plug and got some nasty grey sludge out. Took the pan off to find nearly 1/4" of gunge in the bottom of the pan. Thinking I should remove the pickup screen as that's fairly low in the pan. If that was restricted would that affect oil pressure?
The oil return pipe (from filter to pan) looks like it's blanked off inside the pan, shouldn't that be open to create a flow of oil?
Ian

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

That plate that look like it blocks off the return pipe, it has a little hole in the bottom of that plate, take a piece of small wire and stick up that hole. You can remove the pipe on the out side and blow air in the little hole and see if it blows out. Walt

[Ianrhall]

Aha, will check that out tomorrow, thanks
Ian

[jake197000]

if u do short trips its not that unusual if the pan hasnt been off in a long time i would expect to see that.if the trans oil looks that way way it may have water in it.

[alanwoodieman]

on most return lines there is sort of a cap with the bottom open for flow, guess it was supposed to keep the oil from being thrown around by the crank? do not leave the sreen off, just unclip bale and wash out, clean pan and put back on. as suggested before short trips and the old non-detergent oil seem to cause the sludge

[G.M.]

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The nasty gray sludge is most likely from some oil like Penns Oil. This is clay from
from this type oil years ago. I don't think you find this in todays oil. G.M.

[Ianrhall]

That'll be it! Never seen anything like it!!
Ian

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by G.M.

The nasty gray sludge is most likely from some oil like Penns Oil. This is clay from
from this type oil years ago. I don't think you find this in todays oil. G.M.

In the early 60s we ran Penns Oil in everything! They had great advertising. Had an Uncle who was an executive at a Kansas City oil company and he ask me why I was running any Pennsylvania oil. They are what he called high sulfur oils and leave a lot of sludge behind. Sure enough, any engine we took apart that had been running Penns Oil was loaded with sludge.

[Ianrhall]

I wish I had taken a picture now, reckon there was a good cup full of sludge in there! At least I'll feel like I'm doing some good!
Ian

[Mart]

Ian, the "mud" in the gearbox oil will be from rust due to condensation. Drain, refill, drain refill at more frequent than normal intervals and it will be as good as it can without a rebuild. If you can take the top off and look in, you might be able to wash out the box and save on a drain and refill operation.

Mart.

[Ianrhall]

The gearbox oil was just dirty, no sign of any sludge in that, it has always jumped out of 2nd on the overrun but is quiet and selects gears very well. Don't intend on having it rebuilt just yet.
Going to wash out the pan later and see if I can track down some gaskets
Ian

[scooder]

Ian,
I agree with Mart, you said it looked like it had mud mixed in, that'll be the rusty stuff mixing in.
It may also be prudent to look at rebuilding the trans, it's early warning (jumps out of second) system is working. It may be a cheap (for a flathead) fix, and all's good. You may overt an expensive fix later. At the least you should be tugging the shift tower off for a look see. I spec Bob should have the gaskets.
Martin.

[Ianrhall]

Martin
How much for box rebuild?

[Ianrhall]

The stuff in the pan was horrible, took a while to get it out. The wire strainer on the pickup was completely blocked with a hard carbon type film.
Given the pan a lick of paint and awaiting gaskets
Ian

[1939 pickup truck]

If you have goopy sludge in your oil pan, then you can expect just as much sludge in the top end valve valley under the intake casting which collects lots of particulate matter over the long life of old school straight non detergent old used till now.
My own could easily pass "The Hunts Tomato Past Test" with metal spoon standing up.
do your best to remove as much as pausible, or it will plug up vital passages later

[Ianrhall]

Yes, that is a worry, the oil flow must have been severely restricted. Is running some flushing liquid through it a bad idea?
Ian

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

I know this post will light the experts up , but here goes .

We have used a product called Aero Kroil in our shops for 25 plus years and love it. Its a very good rust remover and pentrant etc.
They also sell a oil additive / cleaner called "Kreen" can begine to tell you how many times this has bailed us out especially on old rusty, gummy flatheads . I would recoment it to all...

http://www.kanolabs.com/engCle.html#anchor63574

[Ianrhall]

We have some effective flushing products in the uk. Bit concerned about loosening any debris around the motor and possibly causing more damage?
Ian

[rotorwrench]

Sludge in an engine is a byproduct of condense water and oil with the blow by contaminants added in depending on ring and cylinder condition. If a person operates the engine long enough each time it is fired up, the condense with evaporate and blow out the vent. This is one of the reasons thermostats came into wide use was to warm the engine up quicker to reduce contaminant build up.

Back in 1978 or so, I pulled an old Ford Falcon 260 V8 engine apart and found that is had well over 1/2 inch of sludge in the lifter galley and oil pan. Oil returns were very nearly blocked. The little old lady that owned the car drove it from her house to the post office every day and occasionally to the grocery which was all in about a 3 block radius from her house. I don't think the car was ever warmed up to full operating temp since it left the showroom in 1962. I've never seen an engine gooped up that bad before. This car had oil & filter changes twice a year for "seasonal maintenance" by the dealer. It only had approximately 20K miles on it since new. A fellow bought from her estate after she passed and thought he was getting a hot smokin good deal until it started knocking. The rod bearings were going south likely due to oil starvation or contamination and the fact that he ran the crap out of it thinking it was bullet proof.

[scooder]

Originally Posted by Ianrhall

Martin
How much for box rebuild?

Ian,
I'm stacked right now, so Bob will be your best bet if you want it done soon. If you get Mr Vanpelt's book on rebuilding these cog swappers, you could do it yourself. If you feel that way inclined. They are really quiet simple as far as gearboxes go.
As for a price, depends what it needs mate.
Martin.

[JSeery]

Rotorwrench, this is why I don't understand why it is so difficult to convince folks of the benefits of thermostats and running at a higher temperature.

[Ianrhall]

It still jumps out of 2nd so no magical cure from changing the oil(no surprise there) glad to hear you are busy.
Have got a little oil pressure now so that's good!
Ian