The Ford Barn

Jalopy Tin · 03-29-2011, 04:12 PM

I would like to know how much gap there is between the hogs head and the block when everything is bolted together, without the felt gasket. Can i use a bead/string with "the right stuff" instead of the original felt? Will it fill up the gap? All the bolt holes in pan and cover line up perfectly.
I bolted them together today but was unsure if the bead was enough. I would like to do it the right way before i put the engine back.
Second, is there some way to adjust the transmission bands - pedal play for clutch, reverse and low/high with the engine out of car or do i have to put it in the car and use the floorboard as a reference?
/Tom

tmodelman · 03-29-2011, 09:45 PM

I prefer to use the original felt seal, the gap can vary with the machined casting of the block and hogshead. Best to 'wet' oor soak the felt seal with liquid gasket cement (Permatex brand is good) or with RTV gasket cement, let it get tacky and then when you bolt down the hogshead cover, the goo oozes and fills the voids. Using only 'right stuff' may not present enough bead unless you over do it and then shards of silicone can get inside the engine which I do not like.

You can adjust bands after fitting the cover, fit them a bit loose at first, you can see the amount of travel by pressing on each pedal, there should be a small gap, not too loose, you can visually see the band lining grasp as you press on the pedal down firmly.

Jalopy Tin · 03-30-2011, 06:29 AM

Thanks tmodelman, I did it again and it got better, used the felt. In contrast, holes to the 4th main lined worse. I think the paper gasket is a bit too thick and with Permatex it build too much.
/Tom

Farmallcub49 · 03-30-2011, 07:01 PM

Is this a rebuild or are you just changing bands? If changing bands keep moving forward. If it is a rebuild; Did you have the pan straightened on a KR WILSON Pan Jig? IF not, those 4th main holes may not line up and by forcing them you may be getting into trouble

Jalopy Tin · 04-01-2011, 03:20 AM

It's a bandchange amonge other, had the pan loose. Everything lined up very well the first time i put everything together. Pan, block, cover and 4th main. Even with a new bearing surface in the 4th main everything fit very well.
All four holes lined up well, now the two upper holes does not. With felt gasket and permatex it seem to the cover is a little tiny bit to high. The engine is set with nose down not to affect the cranshaft and transmission, as i was taught.
Btw is'nt the lower 4th main bolts 3/8-24? A very worn bolt fits in all four holes but a new one does not. I have a 3/8-24 thread tap (?) Or is it an other thread pitch? (sorry for my lousy translation)
/Tom

Jalopy Tin · 04-01-2011, 04:34 PM

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Found this on MTFCA : "It's not the four bolt holes that align or prevent the alignment of the fourth main. It's the machined step diameter that pilots into bore at the tail end of the hog's head."
Can i, if my transmission gear shaft does not "wobble"/is out of roundness, pin the ball cap and enlarge the upper bolt holes?
But this assumes that the lower bolt holes line up perfectly. What do You think?
/Tom

Jalopy Tin · 04-03-2011, 11:53 AM

Moahahaha...

Laugh at me, mock me, humiliate me. There I got because I thought I was a decent mechanic.
When i recieved the starter drive key from Snyders, i put it in the key way on starter shaft, to not forget where i had placed it... I suffer from short memory, you see

Well..assembled almost the whole engine in engine stand and put the starter in the hole in transcover and just when i heard the drive key bounce against bottom of oil pan, i remembered where i placed it...

Remember Culkin in the bathroom scene in Home Alone...
I used so many F words my neighbor knocked on the garage door and wondered if i was angry..
Had to pull the cover again.. third time. Everytime i learn something new. This time i also discovered that the felt gasket had folded itself wrong and i would probably had a severe oil leakage later. I love my little Model T..
/Tom

Bookman · 05-14-2011, 11:03 AM

I use "the right stuff" instead of the felt seal and it works great for me. I feel like it is a sure bet for sealing every time. The " right stuff " doesn't seem to break off like regular silicone does.
We all make mistakes and live and learn. The last time that i had my hogshead off, my buddy that was helping me was on the right side when we put the hogshead down. I thought it pulled down kind of strange, had a slight spongy feel. After i got all the bolts snuged up, i saw something that almost made me have a heart attack. The choke wire was bolted up between the the hogshead and the engine block. BAD DAY. I reckon that these things have to happen, but it is not funny at all.
Roger

John Otis · 05-14-2011, 08:28 PM

I have put together a bunch of engines and I have always used the felt with no problems. I use a bit of Permatex to tack the felt in place and then just screw it all together.

redmodelt · 05-15-2011, 01:23 PM

I believe the statement about the machined surface it what lines up the fourth main is true. Problem is, some of the older re-babbitted 4th's were not machined centered to that surface. They were machined to the outer flange. My line of thinking is that every time you pull the hogs head in the car you have to loosen the 4th, the machined area re-centers it when you bolt it back together.

03-29-2011, 04:12 PM	#1
Jalopy Tin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sweden Posts: 106	Hogs head seal? I would like to know how much gap there is between the hogs head and the block when everything is bolted together, without the felt gasket. Can i use a bead/string with "the right stuff" instead of the original felt? Will it fill up the gap? All the bolt holes in pan and cover line up perfectly. I bolted them together today but was unsure if the bead was enough. I would like to do it the right way before i put the engine back. Second, is there some way to adjust the transmission bands - pedal play for clutch, reverse and low/high with the engine out of car or do i have to put it in the car and use the floorboard as a reference? /Tom

03-30-2011, 06:29 AM	#3
Jalopy Tin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sweden Posts: 106	Re: Hogs head seal? Thanks tmodelman, I did it again and it got better, used the felt. In contrast, holes to the 4th main lined worse. I think the paper gasket is a bit too thick and with Permatex it build too much. /Tom

03-30-2011, 07:01 PM	#4
Farmallcub49 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: St Joseph,MN Posts: 278	Re: Hogs head seal? Is this a rebuild or are you just changing bands? If changing bands keep moving forward. If it is a rebuild; Did you have the pan straightened on a KR WILSON Pan Jig? IF not, those 4th main holes may not line up and by forcing them you may be getting into trouble __________________ 'OSO HANDY RESTORATIONS Specializing in Model T Fords 320-293-1953

04-01-2011, 04:34 PM	#6
Jalopy Tin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sweden Posts: 106	Re: Hogs head seal? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Found this on MTFCA : "It's not the four bolt holes that align or prevent the alignment of the fourth main. It's the machined step diameter that pilots into bore at the tail end of the hog's head." Can i, if my transmission gear shaft does not "wobble"/is out of roundness, pin the ball cap and enlarge the upper bolt holes? But this assumes that the lower bolt holes line up perfectly. What do You think? /Tom

04-03-2011, 11:53 AM	#7
Jalopy Tin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sweden Posts: 106	Re: Hogs head seal? Moahahaha... Laugh at me, mock me, humiliate me. There I got because I thought I was a decent mechanic. When i recieved the starter drive key from Snyders, i put it in the key way on starter shaft, to not forget where i had placed it... I suffer from short memory, you see Well..assembled almost the whole engine in engine stand and put the starter in the hole in transcover and just when i heard the drive key bounce against bottom of oil pan, i remembered where i placed it... Remember Culkin in the bathroom scene in Home Alone... I used so many F words my neighbor knocked on the garage door and wondered if i was angry.. Had to pull the cover again.. third time. Everytime i learn something new. This time i also discovered that the felt gasket had folded itself wrong and i would probably had a severe oil leakage later. I love my little Model T.. /Tom

05-14-2011, 11:03 AM	#8
Bookman Junior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: N. Wilkesboro, NC Posts: 23	Re: Hogs head seal? I use "the right stuff" instead of the felt seal and it works great for me. I feel like it is a sure bet for sealing every time. The " right stuff " doesn't seem to break off like regular silicone does. We all make mistakes and live and learn. The last time that i had my hogshead off, my buddy that was helping me was on the right side when we put the hogshead down. I thought it pulled down kind of strange, had a slight spongy feel. After i got all the bolts snuged up, i saw something that almost made me have a heart attack. The choke wire was bolted up between the the hogshead and the engine block. BAD DAY. I reckon that these things have to happen, but it is not funny at all. Roger

05-14-2011, 08:28 PM	#9
John Otis Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Vermont and Florida Posts: 188	Re: Hogs head seal? I have put together a bunch of engines and I have always used the felt with no problems. I use a bit of Permatex to tack the felt in place and then just screw it all together.

05-15-2011, 01:23 PM	#10
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,342	Re: Hogs head seal? I believe the statement about the machined surface it what lines up the fourth main is true. Problem is, some of the older re-babbitted 4th's were not machined centered to that surface. They were machined to the outer flange. My line of thinking is that every time you pull the hogs head in the car you have to loosen the 4th, the machined area re-centers it when you bolt it back together.