Double Cluching

[Mike Mc]

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

But, don't worry, whenever you have an audience will be the time you make the worst shift of your life.. We've all been there and have had to buy the t-shirt..

Amen to that!

[1928Pickuppain]

Well Heres the strange part I have no problem double cluching whale down shifting used to race motocross and it is easyer on the trany to do so. I also do it on my 48 panhead but I never had a reason to double clutch while upshifting. and as far as my trany fluid goes, I dont know whats in it. I bought it and have had so much to do draining, flushing and refilling my trany has been prity low on my list for instance tonight I redid all the brakes, they havent been done sence 1950. there was basicly no matance done to this vehical sence the 50s when the old man got to old to do much. He just drove it as it was for the rest of his life till he died a couple years ago and it was left to his mail man who just put it next to his barn till he sold it to me.The old man bought it new in 28. so for all I know it could be 60 year old fluid.

[Special Coupe Frank]

My '28 (single-disc clutch) grinds more between shifts when the tranny is low on oil.

The heavy 600-weight oil slows the spinning gears very quickly, and makes for a quicker shift (relatively).

When the oil gets low, the gears tend to spin longer after putting in the clutch, and a "clean shift" takes longer.

On average, starting from a dead stop, I accelerate to 10 MPH in 1st gear, put in clutch, shift into neutral, let clutch out, put clutch back in, shift to 2nd. (takes about "one-one-thousand, two-one-thousand, three-one-thousand", not rushing the counting.)
At about 25 mph, I shift from 2nd to High, same proceedure.

Don't touch the thottle on upshift.

For down-shifting, I can go as quick as it takes to "clutch-neutral-clutch-rev-clutch-shift"... often quicker than it takes to up-shift.

Find a large empty parking lot or deserted road to practice on... it is possible to shift a "crash-box" silently.

Good luck !

[vtwinsideways]

Originally Posted by Special Coupe Frank

My '28 (single-disc clutch) grinds more between shifts when the tranny is low on oil.

The heavy 600-weight oil slows the spinning gears very quickly, and makes for a quicker shift (relatively).

When the oil gets low, the gears tend to spin longer after putting in the clutch, and a "clean shift" takes longer.

Exactally what I was thinking when I asked.
Pretty much all tranny's make more grind and more noise when they're low/dry. If and when you do change the fluid, make sure to get good heavy stuff. The 600W Snyders and the other catalogs sell, tends to be about 250wgt. Even though the "new" oils have better additive packages, the old girls still need that thickness (read: viscocity) that can only come from thick gooey 600wgt. This goes for the rearends too. Parts stores don't tend to stock it or even know what you are talking about when you ask. You may have to find an oil/fuel distributor in your area to get your hands on some quality gear oil. Another place to look would be shops that work on heavy equipment or shops that work on large marine applications. When you do remove the old, be forwarned that you will have to heat the trans and rear, either by driving it a fair distance or like I did, you can use a space heater or torpedo heater. Henry's old stuff is like black toothpaste. You will probably need a hotplate and tin can in the shop to heat the new to get it to flow in nicely. If you live alone you can do it in the kitchen. My wife was rather displeased when she came home one day and the oven smelled like old gas. I had used it to heat up a couple of Stromberg 97's that were seized up. Worked like a dream on about 250*F for 10 min. Dinner tasted tangy for a couple of days though. Luke
P.S. If you're going to try the carb trick, make sure you have 2 good oven mits that your significant other won't miss!

[Glenn C.]

If you are as old as I am......Forget the double clutching and install a Mitchell Sycromesh transmission. Your knees and nerves will love you for it.

Don't forget.....you can't take it with you !!

[BrianBurkert]

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You may want to be sure you have the proper thickness 600W type oil in the transmission. The proper heavy oil allows easier shifting.

[steve s]

Originally Posted by vtwinsideways

... The 600W Snyders and the other catalogs sell, tends to be about 250wgt. Even though the "new" oils have better additive packages, the old girls still need that thickness (read: viscocity) that can only come from thick gooey 600wgt. ...

600W is like a brand name. The "W" has no particular significance. It does not stand for "winter", like the "W" in modern labelings, nor does it stand for weight.

Steve

[Patrick L.]

As long as we're talking about heavy oil,, Lubriplate makes several..
SPO277 = 140 wgt
SPO288 = 250 wgt
SPO299 = 600 wgt
I asked if their 600 was really 600 wgt and they assured me it was..
So far I see no difference between the 140 and the 250.. I might try the 600 sometime soon..

[skip]

"I understand that i clutch put in neutral, rev engine, then clutch and put in gear is there any thing I am doing wrong is there a secret to it?"
Wrong.

1 Your in first and up to a shift speed. [That means about anything more than a crawl before shifting into second.]

2 Clutch in.

3 Out of first into natural. [Do not rev engine]

4 Clutch out. Still in Natural.

5 Clutch in. [May have to 'in and out' the clutch one more time.Triple clutch if you wait too long or get out of engine/transmission time.]

6 Shift from natural into second.

7 Clutch out.

Repeat procedure, second to third.

Smooth shifting to ya. skip.

600 W is not really 600 w...it's 600 period. That be steam engine oil. I buy mine from Bratton's, It's the right goopy stuff for the transmixer, the rear axle and the steering box. Baring a goodly leak one qt will last you for years.

Read Last Paragraph Below.



I have noticed that it is a bit easier to double shift up in gear when the oil in the transmixer is cold, 'cause it slows the transmixer down a little faster to better match the engine speed.

[Louis]

I've found the faster i double clutch the smoother it shifts, i,ve also found if on a level road, the slower your going also help's, don't wind it out like you would on a 1940-50 car. remember in the oper. man. it say's that 1st and 2nd gear's are only to get the car in motion and that 3rd gear would be the most used. agin on a level road when i make make a 90 deg. turn and am still at 10 mph or faster i never shift to 2nd, not needed, But i guess every A is a little diff. JMHO......Good luck .

[vtwinsideways]

Originally Posted by steve s

600W is like a brand name. The "W" has no particular significance. It does not stand for "winter", like the "W" in modern labelings, nor does it stand for weight.

Steve

All things being equal, when I replaced Henry's black tar with Snyders snot, I was immediately rewarded with a poor shift and a much louder trans and rearend. Replacement of the "new" 600W with a more proper thickness (600XP680) brought relief from the problems created by the new 600W. Luke

[roccaas]

Use heavier Tranny Fluid and keep it topped off. 600wt with a half bottle of STP (if so inclined) and at the proper level will slow the C shaft so well that when cold you don't often HAVE to double clutch, and as the fluid warms, the DC works fine.

If you really want to impress folks at the stop light, retard the advance (left lever all the way up) to really slow the engine, and clutch into 1st with generally not a scratch or grind.

Double De-clutch (3rd to 2nd, but never 2nd to 1st) takes a little getting used to in order to find the correct engine speed to match the Counter shaft rotation.

I still DC and DDC all my semi-modern manual cars because Synchros are very expensive, especially when the Europeans put them in cars and want all of your money on a rebuild.

[PC/SR]

Sure you can double clutch 2nd to 1st. With some practice, you can do it without using the clutch at all.

[Gary Gregory]

Originally Posted by vtwinsideways

All things being equal, when I replaced Henry's black tar with Snyders snot, I was immediately rewarded with a poor shift and a much louder trans and rearend. Replacement of the "new" 600W with a more proper thickness (600XP680) brought relief from the problems created by the new 600W. Luke

Luke,
Where did you get the 600xP680 oil?

[vtwinsideways]

Originally Posted by Gary Gregory

Luke,
Where did you get the 600xP680 oil?

Local Mobil distributor. (Morgan Distributing, Decatur IL.) It comes in 5 gallon pails or 55 gal drums only, as it is used for heavy equipment. $97 for 5 gallons. Expensive, but you'll have nearly enough for a lifetime. It is also available from other oil producers.
Something else to keep in mind, the way I understand, Mobil still makes it's proprietary 600W and distributes it as steam cylinder oil.

[Bruce of MN]

Originally Posted by vtwinsideways

Local Mobil distributor. (Morgan Distributing, Decatur IL.) It comes in 5 gallon pails or 55 gal drums only, as it is used for heavy equipment. $97 for 5 gallons. Expensive, but you'll have nearly enough for a lifetime. It is also available from other oil producers.
Something else to keep in mind, the way I understand, Mobil still makes it's proprietary 600W and distributes it as steam cylinder oil.

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...inder_Oils.asp

[Freddie (Memphis)]

Funny you should mention that, HoarseWhisperer.. Just this weekend, I drove my '65 Shelby Cobra replica to breakfast with my fellow Cobra-philes Saturday morning. I normally back it in when I park in my garage, so I had little problem pulling out and driving to breakfast. But, when I got ready to leave the restaurant, I had to back out of the parking place...I found I had completely forgotten where reverse was located on the 5-speed Tremec TKO-600 transmission! I kept trying to shift into the upper left quadrant...which, of course, is 1st on the TKO, but Reverse in the Model A...! I had to sit there a few seconds and think about it before I remembered that reverse is in the lower right corner of the shift pattern... talk about feeling stupid!

We had a VW I bought just after we got married. I was "famous" for backing our Pontiac LeMans out of a parking place and trying to drive off while attempting to "shift" the automatic tranny... Worked just fine on backing out and starting off...the helluvit was when I tried to shift into second....! Damned near slammed our heads into the dash when I pushed in the "clutch" pedal...(..really the power brake pedal...Duuuuh!)

Too many cars...just too many cars...

[1928Pickuppain]

Did that in my jeep the other day put it inot reverce (Jeep First) and near ley ran over the person standing in front of me

[Bruce,Upstate NY]

You should be downshifting on every corner. Lugging the engine is hard in it. If you like to roll stop signs, you can go from 2nd to 1st also. Practice and a good ear are needed. Spend some road time with an experienced person.

[Larry Brumfield]

One thing I've noticed that some people do when double clutching is they push the pedal down farther than necessary. With everything properly adjusted it's only necessary to push the pedal down far enough to lift the pressure plate off the clutch, not all the way to the floor.


Larry B.