Help timing a 460.

[evanjw2]

Hello All!

My name is Evan. Most guys around here call me Doc. I recently got home from deployment with the Corps. While I was there I had an offer from a classic car broker from Illinois called, Classicmusclecars.com, to purchase a fully restored 72’ Mustang. We’ll, I know a bit about newer cars. EFI and the such. But I’ve never dealt with these older girls before. So I figured now’s as good a time as any. Well, being in the military, I guess they saw me coming a mile away. They definitely took me through the cleaners and I did not get what I was paying for. I already sought legal counseling only to be told I had no case. For instance, the first day I was driving her, the back left wheel broke clean off. I drove maybe 3 miles from where the truck dropped her off at. I was doing 50….you can imagine the damage done. And Believe it or not things have gotten worse from there. The guy who runs the joint definitely took me for a ride. Well, 5K later, give or take, I’m almost there. I’ve just got to time and tune the engine, body work, and some interior things and it’ll be pretty sweet ride. I don’t intend on giving up on the car. So my question is…

The engine setup it a ford 460, not sure what vehicle its originally out of but I believe it’s 7.5l. I was once told that it was out of a 79’ F250 if I remember right. It has a high rise intake and tunnel ram setup made by weiand. Dual quad 600 cfm carbs. And an msd ign module/coil. Right now I can’t seem to get it timed right. I can’t seem to dial it in just so. Any ideas? Does the msd alter the BTDC or the timing setup? Thanks everyone! I appreciate yalls help!

Oh and here’s a list of all the things that went wrong in order of occurrence…in case you were wondering…
1. BL wheel broke clean off. 3 miles
2. After market shifter broke, couldn’t go into drive. Next morning.
3. Headers no properly secured. Noticed when installing new shifter.
4. Water pump went out. Approx 4 more miles
5. Alternator went out. Next morning
6. Oil pump was next. Later that evening, still at seven miles.
7. The valve that controls break pressure between left and right in the rear…blew off somewhere on the road. No breaks. A week later, Total miles drove 10.
8. After market gauges in the console shorted and caught fire. Still at ten miles.
9. Oh there’s a lot more, but they’re like little things. Things I expect to be wrong with the car. Like lil’ interior or exterior issues.
I called him to tell him he needs to figure out a way to make this car into the one I paid for he told me,
“Well maybe you’re not ready for this car.” He goes on,” This car is not a 100 point show car, I told you that. And sides’ I sold it as in with no warranty. What did you expect?”
Too all the guys out there who’ve been working on old muscle and pony cars for a long time, I fully understand that these old cars are a lot of work. Work I’m willing to do. I understand they take a lot of know how, well I’m trying hard to learn. Shoot I’ve learned a lot and I’ve only owned this car for a month. I also realize that not every one is meant to have their own classic muscle or pony car. Well I think I am, but whether I am or not is besides the point. The right thing is the right thing and this Randy character over there at Classicmusclecars.com doesn’t do what he says he’ll do. I was born and raised in a small town in Oklahoma. Where I come from a man is only as good as his word. So this post Went a diff direction. I started with a question and then turned into this. I just wanna’ say…I didn’t spend 3 deployments of getting shot at and blown up saving up for a car I can say is mine only to be ripped off like this. Any ways, back to the point. If any one has any info on how to tune and time this car, I’d appreciate the help.

[BOSSY]

Call the attorney general in the state that you bought it and report this guy! They may help or watch for other complaints.
The timing can be set with a vacuum gauge. Disconnect vacuum advance and hook up a vacuum gauge to intake or carb and start it up and let it idle and watch gauge and turn dist till you get the most vacuum and lock dist and hook advance and you should be happy. If it pings retard it just a bit. Good luck with the big rip off!
A BIG THANKS FOR SERVING. BOSSY.

[middletown]

Also check and make sure that the balancer has not slipped on the rubber. Bring number one to TDC and make sure the balancer is also at TDC. When the rubber is old and cracked the outer ring with the timing marks will sometimes move so you will have a false reading with the timing light.

Good luck and thank you for your service,

Joe

[Ole Don]

1, Thank you for serving our country. 2, Not everyone from Illinois is a crook. 3, Before you spend a of of money on that 460, try to find out if it is modified inside. Two carbs on a high rise is a little much if it has stock compression and cam. You may have a happier driving experience with a single carb on a 180 drgree manifold if you plan on driving the car, but first you need to know about the cam and compression. Does the motor still have a timing mark and pointer? What caused the wheel seperation, wheel studs or axle?

[Retro Jim]

First , Thank you for doing what you did to keep us safe here at home !
OK the 460 you have CAN'T accept a 2x4 with that much carb unless the pistons were changed , the heads were reworked , proper cam and so on . Those engines only have about 8 to 1 compression . There are ways of fixing those 460's to run like a scalded dog and not cost an arm and a leg ! Been there and done that so I can help you fix your engine to run . Even if it's a 429 , 500 HP is not hard to achieve at all !
OK sounds like you bought a car from someone else's shitty word . OK you really should have had someone check it for you but lesson learned . Right now you have no leg to stand on due to most all used cars are sold AS-IS ! We have all been ripped off before but that's life and yes it's not fair. Best thing to do is lick your wounds and you will know better the next time on what to do .
If you email me at my home address I will be glad to help you get your dream car fixed and safe to drive . It's not to hard to do and with common hand tools you can do it ! Make a list of the problems you have and send them to me at [email protected] . I don't get on the Ford Forum that much but I am on the HAMB a lot . I don't live close to you but enjoy helping other people out when I can . If you do that I will do my best to get you through this . You stuck your ass on the line for us so that is the least I can do for you . I have helped many by emails before .
Take a deep breath.....sit down and make a list on what you need to fix first . I don't mean paint and body work , I mean what needs to be done to run right and be driven SAFELY ! I can tell you where to get the best deals on parts and what you need to fix the problems .
Just remember not everyone is a crock and a thief , but they are out there and you really need to do your homework first before you go and do this again . If you follow the easy ways of buying a classic car next time you will know what you are getting .
Anyway send me an email and I will help !

Jim

[frank long island]

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i dont really have any advise but would like to thank you for defending this great country we call home

[LOWRIDER]

Alot of good advise here. I wont confuse you with anymore, I think the other posts pretty much nailed it. I do have a problem with you not being able to do something about the way you were taken for a ride. I'd keep calling the state & other attorneys till you get somewhere. And thanks from one Jarhead to another. USMC 69-71

[Frank The Plumber]

Retro Jim is correct, a tunnel ram and 2 600 cfm carbs is far too much fuel flow for a 460 Ford of any year with stock heads, truth be told the 460 is more of a torque engine than a horse power monster, you would be well served to sell or swap out the monster stuff for a more sedate 750 cfm range carb and a low riser intake, you will never tune that out on there it just cannot breathe. I can only assume that everything that this guy did is shit because his attitude seems to be or hes just a used car broker who peddled a mess.. So lets take a different approach, lets look at this as a hell of an opportunity to learn a hell of a lot about your car.
First, get real conservative about your money, you can't spend your way out of troubles so lets get real patient, pick a plan and stick to it, second ask us or the guys on the HAMB about things and how they work, go with a vote by committee aspect of taking our advice. Its safer that way.
OK, are you from Illinois? It seems you bought your car in Illinois, from your post.
My very first concern is this; I have owned about 14 early 'stangs, an unmodified early mustang substructure will support right around 350 horse power comfortably, 350 hp would get you to around a high 13 mid 14, thats fastish, The stock brakes on a 72 mustang were most likely front drum and definitely rear drum, thats not so good for a fastish car, if you go with your stock brakes absolutely make sure they are in top condition.
A 460 engine should not just slipper fit into a 72 mustang, I would be concerned that modifications to the towers may have been done, or other work may have been done that may not be evident to you or may need a more knowledgeable set of eyes to look at it. It may have required some work to the trans mounts as well.
I could go on and on, lets get a few pictures of your car posted, tell us what you want to do and we will help you get to that place. We may not always agree with where you want to go with it, but we will explain why we disagree and promise to explain our concerns in detail. So post some pics. Thank you for your service to the country.
If you do go on the HAMB do not tell them that you are working on a 72 stang, they like older cars, just look through it for advice and ask questions regarding certain aspects and components, that way you won't get pooped on. Post away.