The Ford Barn

katy · 02-23-2022, 11:33 AM

Did the rubbing block wear down because of poor material or because of the cam having a rough surface?
In my case I had installed a new, replacement "B" cam (from a reputable supplier) because I was led to believe that the "B" cam had a better profile and would produce longer dwell time. Assuming that the cam was as smooth as it should be I never thought to check the surface of it, just installed it, set the points gap and the timing. When the points rubbing block wore down in a relatively short time was when I discovered that the cam surface was quite rough and needed polishing to make it serviceable.
YMMV

nkaminar · 02-23-2022, 04:08 PM

One option is to eliminate the points altogether. There are electronic points available for the Model A starting at about $80. Not for the purist. You have to run a bunch of more wires. I tried this on my Model T and eventually took them off. You have to have a hot coil to have them work and they will not fire if the battery is low, so no hand cranking with a weak battery. But they don't need adjustment and will last a long long time.

Dirtrack49 · 02-23-2022, 06:33 PM

katy,
The only thing I can come up with is the rubbing block must be made out of a poor material. My cam, which is also a "B" cam, is nice and smooth. The points that I took off, still have a very nice rubbing block on them and they have at least 1400 miles of use. I ended up putting them back on the car. That is why I am looking for a picture of original 30's points to see if that is what they are.
nkaminar,
Thanks for the thought, but I am one of those people who like things to remain original if at all possible. I also have a Model T still running the buzz boxes.

nkaminar · 02-23-2022, 08:58 PM

The points on my 1930 Model A, which I bought in 1960, were original Ford and lasted until I sold the car in 1967. I put many thousands of miles on the car and never changed the points or condensor. I am wondering if one could machine (or carve) a rubbing block out of Delrin to replace what is in the repo points. Delrin is a hard plastic but has Teflon in it so the friction coefficient is very low and it has good wear resistance. It will take the temperature in the distributor. It is good for 250 F.

That brings up the question of how hot is it in Dirtrack's distributor and whether that is a factor.

Rob Doe · 02-23-2022, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkaminar

The points on my 1930 Model A, which I bought in 1960, were original Ford and lasted until I sold the car in 1967. I put many thousands of miles on the car and never changed the points or condensor. I am wondering if one could machine (or carve) a rubbing block out of Delrin to replace what is in the repo points. Delrin is a hard plastic but has Teflon in it so the friction coefficient is very low and it has good wear resistance. It will take the temperature in the distributor. It is good for 250 F.

That brings up the question of how hot is in Dirtrack's distributor and whether that is a factor.

Neil, I been wondering if a hard maple rub block could be used. I think, there were bearings made of it and used in combines fairly recently???

old ugly · 02-23-2022, 11:23 PM

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this is what i found from Ford, how to identify their original points set.
i couldn/t get a good photo so you have to squint.

katy · 02-24-2022, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirtrack49

I am looking for a picture of original 30's points to see if that is what they are.

IF the points are original they will have Ford (in script) on the movable arm.

Quote:

I am wondering if one could machine (or carve) a rubbing block out of Delrin to replace what is in the repo points.

Making the rubbing block was the easy part, fastening it to the arm is what I found difficult. If one could source some tiny rivets and a rivet setting tool to match would make the job easier.
I made the rubbing block out of some 1/2" fibre board I had, similar to the original material.

old ugly · 02-24-2022, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Doe

Neil, I been wondering if a hard maple rub block could be used. I think, there were bearings made of it and used in combines fairly recently???

check out post #23 from KATY

ndnchf · 02-24-2022, 11:14 AM

I just cleaned up and installed a set of original Ford points in a distributor I'm restoring.

katy · 02-24-2022, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ndnchf

I just cleaned up and installed a set of original Ford points in a distributor I'm restoring.

I assume those points were made by an outside supplier for Ford, I see the Ford script, what company does the other symbol represent?

Ruth · 02-24-2022, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katy

Making the rubbing block was the easy part, fastening it to the arm is what I found difficult. If one could source some tiny rivets and a rivet setting tool to match would make the job easier.
I made the rubbing block out of some 1/2" fibre board I had, similar to the original material.

Have you had any issues with the additional weight on points arm from the hardware? I would imagine the additional weight would cause point bounce at higher RPM?

katy · 02-24-2022, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruth

Have you had any issues with the additional weight on points arm from the hardware? I would imagine the additional weight would cause point bounce at higher RPM?

I've never noticed a problem w/point bounce, but then I don't drive it that fast, 40 MPH tops, if that. That's only about 1700-1800 engine RPM, distributor is 1/2 of that.
Thanks to Bob B for the chart

nkaminar · 02-24-2022, 11:38 AM

McMaster Carr has tons of different rivets and the tools to set them. The hollow rivets start at .156 diameter but one could make hollow rivets out of other types by drilling out the end.

ndnchf · 02-24-2022, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katy

I assume those points were made by an outside supplier for Ford, I see the Ford script, what company does the other symbol represent?

I don't know who's symbol that is. But I have several with the same symbol and Ford script. Maybe someone else knows?

Ruth · 02-24-2022, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katy

I assume those points were made by an outside supplier for Ford, I see the Ford script, what company does the other symbol represent?

In the picture Old Ugly posted in #46 it mentions the trademarks along with the Ford script but does not say if they are Ford trademarks or an other manufacturer trademarks.

Dirtrack49 · 02-24-2022, 12:27 PM

katy, ndnchf,
That is what I needed to know. The points that I just put back in do not have those markings. I can not find any marks on them at all. They appear to have a plastic rubbing block.
The Napa CS30 points are pictured below. The block lasted 612 miles.

02-23-2022, 11:33 AM	#41
katy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Red Deer, Alberta Posts: 5,046	Re: NAPA CS30 Points Did the rubbing block wear down because of poor material or because of the cam having a rough surface? In my case I had installed a new, replacement "B" cam (from a reputable supplier) because I was led to believe that the "B" cam had a better profile and would produce longer dwell time. Assuming that the cam was as smooth as it should be I never thought to check the surface of it, just installed it, set the points gap and the timing. When the points rubbing block wore down in a relatively short time was when I discovered that the cam surface was quite rough and needed polishing to make it serviceable. YMMV __________________ If you don't hear a rumor by 10 AM, start one!. Got my education out behind the barn!

02-23-2022, 04:08 PM	#42
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,900	Re: NAPA CS30 Points One option is to eliminate the points altogether. There are electronic points available for the Model A starting at about $80. Not for the purist. You have to run a bunch of more wires. I tried this on my Model T and eventually took them off. You have to have a hot coil to have them work and they will not fire if the battery is low, so no hand cranking with a weak battery. But they don't need adjustment and will last a long long time. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

02-23-2022, 06:33 PM	#43
Dirtrack49 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Tehachapi California Posts: 156	Re: NAPA CS30 Points katy, The only thing I can come up with is the rubbing block must be made out of a poor material. My cam, which is also a "B" cam, is nice and smooth. The points that I took off, still have a very nice rubbing block on them and they have at least 1400 miles of use. I ended up putting them back on the car. That is why I am looking for a picture of original 30's points to see if that is what they are. nkaminar, Thanks for the thought, but I am one of those people who like things to remain original if at all possible. I also have a Model T still running the buzz boxes. __________________ Tom L.

02-23-2022, 08:58 PM	#44
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,900	Re: NAPA CS30 Points The points on my 1930 Model A, which I bought in 1960, were original Ford and lasted until I sold the car in 1967. I put many thousands of miles on the car and never changed the points or condensor. I am wondering if one could machine (or carve) a rubbing block out of Delrin to replace what is in the repo points. Delrin is a hard plastic but has Teflon in it so the friction coefficient is very low and it has good wear resistance. It will take the temperature in the distributor. It is good for 250 F. That brings up the question of how hot is it in Dirtrack's distributor and whether that is a factor. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past. Last edited by nkaminar; 02-24-2022 at 11:40 AM.

02-24-2022, 11:38 AM	#53
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,900	Re: NAPA CS30 Points McMaster Carr has tons of different rivets and the tools to set them. The hollow rivets start at .156 diameter but one could make hollow rivets out of other types by drilling out the end. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.