Interesting bore dimensions

[GB SISSON]

I have been sorting through some of my blocks I have stored up. I would like to build an engine without the aid of a machine shop. I have 2 good 8ba candidates but haven't had time to do all the testing on them. Of these, one is .030 over and has an older crack, stitched and sleeved that is tight and there is no ridge whatsoever. The other is .040 over but has an intake valve seat that is staked in place, so will want to address that.. My starret dial type bore gauge shows no taper, no out of round, no issues on either block. My question on this Christmas eve is this.
The .040 block, which I prefer as I have six nice .040 pistons measures 3.225 at the top on all 8 cylinders and at about 1/4" down they measure 3.212 . In my research it seems like that is normal procedure on a re-bore and the rest would be left to the honing process. I have a set of Hasting rings at .040 and at 1" down they show .005-.006 end gap. These merc pistons are currently a tight fit, but they will fit in with encouragement. To me it sounds like a good situation. I have a good hone and my Sioux valve surfacer is all dialed in and a B&D and a Van Dorn seat grinder. There are no visible cracks, but after Christmas I will mag and pressure test. Tell me if I'm missing something on the bore diagnosis. And Merry Christmas, one and all!

[cadillac512]

Gary, do you mean the cyls measure 3.221 rather than the 3.212 you posted? Even at 3.221 you'll have .006+ to hone, and that's a lot to try to keep straight unless a rigid hone and a lot of care is taken. Merry Christmas!


Terry

[Kube]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

I have been sorting through some of my blocks I have stored up. I would like to build an engine without the aid of a machine shop. I have 2 good 8ba candidates but haven't had time to do all the testing on them. Of these, one is .030 over and has an older crack, stitched and sleeved that is tight and there is no ridge whatsoever. The other is .040 over but has an intake valve seat that is staked in place, so will want to address that.. My starret dial type bore gauge shows no taper, no out of round, no issues on either block. My question on this Christmas eve is this.
The .040 block, which I prefer as I have six nice .040 pistons measures 3.225 at the top on all 8 cylinders and at about 1/4" down they measure 3.212 . In my research it seems like that is normal procedure on a re-bore and the rest would be left to the honing process. I have a set of Hasting rings at .040 and at 1" down they show .005-.006 end gap. These merc pistons are currently a tight fit, but they will fit in with encouragement. To me it sounds like a good situation. I have a good hone and my Sioux valve surfacer is all dialed in and a B&D and a Van Dorn seat grinder. There are no visible cracks, but after Christmas I will mag and pressure test. Tell me if I'm missing something on the bore diagnosis. And Merry Christmas, one and all!

This was a fairly common way of "rebuilding" at minimal cost and effort.
I would never consider doing what you are contemplating.
I'm from the old school teachings of "do it once, do it correctly".

[Ol' Ron]

Saving money can be quite expensive.
Gramps

[GB SISSON]

I completely understand what you are all saying here. The best engine will be one with a trip to the machine shop and all new parts installed. That is just plain how it's done in this day and age. I get that with no dispute. But I also stand firm that I have overhauled (not rebuilt) an estimated eight flathead V8s without a visit to a machine shop and have never experienced even the slightest problem. I have followed the ones I have sold and they continue to give good service. This includes the one I built using teflon buttons I made on a router jig to replace the circlips for the wrist pins. I owe this success to the fact that I strictly adhere to all of the procedures outlined by the Ford Motor Company's publication (well, maybe not the teflon buttons) on repairing the v8 to good servicable 'not new' condition. I use new valves, rings and bearings. Most engines I have done in the past may have had a slight ridge which I remove with my ridge reamer. My question today comes from the fact that this .040 block has zero ridge and the bore is concentric and straight, yet measures smaller, not bigger than at the top. If that proves to be a problem, I will use the .030 8ba and come up with 8 new pistons.

[Bored&Stroked]

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Any competent machine shops will tell you that you don't use a hone (even a rigid stone hone) to take out that amount of taper in a bore. You're talking about .013 of taper (or incorrectly bored) in those cylinders - this is NOT how boring is done.

A good boring bar will hold a consistent diameter the length of the bore. The hone is used to tune the final clearance and to prepare the bore surface for the type of rings you're planning on running.

If it was mine, I'd have it rebored/honed for .060 pistons/rings.

[big job]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

Any competent machine shops will tell you that you don't use a hone (even a rigid stone hone) to take out that amount of taper in a bore. You're talking about .013 of taper (or incorrectly bored) in those cylinders - this is NOT how boring is done.

A good boring bar will hold a consistent diameter the length of the bore. The hone is used to tune the final clearance and to prepare the bore surface for the type of rings you're planning on running.

If it was mine, I'd have it rebored/honed for .060 pistons/rings.

Well said I could not agree more..........

[GB SISSON]

Thanks all! I now know this block is not suitable for an 'in house' overhaul. I will look into the other ten and maybe find something.

[GB SISSON]

I have some breaking news on this subject... While it's kind of embarrasing to admit here I was not using the telescopic gauge correctly. In my mind I thought that rolling the locked gauge over center in the bore would give me a false reading so I tried to hold it as close to center as possible, then locked it and slowly withdrew it. I decided to remeasure these two blocks with that flawed method and sure enough, got inconsistent results. Duh. So I went to Youtube and searched use of telescopic gauge. Sure enough four videos in a row locking the pin at a cocked position and rolling it over center. The .040 block is still too big to hone, but it is very consistent. The top bit above the rings is 3.225-3.227 and a ring has a gap of .006 +_ and the bores are quite even at 3.220-3.221. The new .040 rings will insert down into the bores 1" before the gap closes completely and they stop. I then went and got the sunnen hone kit that my stepson had given me a few years back.... I suppose I could give it a shot if I was desperate, but I don't want to set this fresh ground 4" crank into a home shop experiment. Besides, it's for the woodie. I turned my attention (and telescopic gauge) to the .030 block that had also showed no ridge. That measures very well as though it had been bored and honed. I bought it mostly apart at Portland with no history. That will go back together as is with it's ford crank and numbered pistons. The third block I went for needs a bore, but dangit, you will like this one. Details at eleven.....

PS, told ya there was an ugly valve seat.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

PS, told ya there was an ugly valve seat.

[GB SISSON]

Thank you Pete!
This is block 3. Above the ridge it is 3.187. Just got off the phone with the machine shop. I will mag and pressure test first.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Thank you Pete!
This is block 3. Above the ridge it is 3.187. Just got off the phone with the machine shop. I will mag and pressure test first.

[GB SISSON]

And cleaned up for further inspection with a nylon bristle cup brush. Thinking that nasty groove is from a circlip popping out. Guessing will need sleeve. Pete... yer workin' overtime

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

And cleaned up for further inspection with a nylon bristle cup brush. Thinking that nasty groove is from a circlip popping out. Guessing will need sleeve. Pete... yer workin' overtime

[38 coupe]

That last block looks really good, other than the gouged cylinder wall. I have a friend with a Kwik-Way boring bar and have helped bore and sleeve a hole worse than that. Looks like you will have a nice engine.


With the crank and block figured out, what about the rest of the parts? What camshaft and heads are you planning to run?

[GB SISSON]

I have many pairs of 8ba type heads. I know I have at least one set of 8rt heads. I'll probably use them unless I get other feedback. I've never had much interest in aftermarket speed equipment, so it will be stock carb/load-a-matic and a stock ford cam as far as I can tell from here. Like another post currently running here, I'm most interested in low end torque. I just may step outside of my box and run dual exhausts, just because.

[tubman]

If you have to bore one out and buy pistons, you may as well go 1/8" over (3 5/16"). It won't cost much more (if anything) and, as they say, you can't beat cubic inches. With a Ford crank, that'll give you 258 ci (bigger than a stock Merc), while the Merc crank comes out to 276 ci. I've done two engines at 1/8" over with no real problems. I did have one cylinder in which a small pit showed up; the machinist said to just run it, but I decided to spend the extra $125 to sleeve it, just to be sure.) You will probably be able to get by without a sleeve in the scored cylinder; that should save at least $100. By the 8BA era, Ford had their shit together so core shift is not a problem. Just about any 8BA will go to a 3 3/8" bore, and there have been examples at 3 7/16"+.030", so you should have all the meat you need for several future rebuilds.

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by tubman

If you have to bore one out and buy pistons, you may as well go 1/8" over (3 5/16"). It won't cost much more (if anything) and, as they say, you can't beat cubic inches. With a Ford crank, that'll give you 258 ci (bigger than a stock Merc), while the Merc crank comes out to 276 ci. I've done two engines at 1/8" over with no real problems. I did have one cylinder in which a small pit showed up; the machinist said to just run it, but I decided to spend the extra $125 to sleeve it, just to be sure.) You will probably be able to get by without a sleeve in the scored cylinder; that should save at least $100. By the 8BA era, Ford had their shit together so core shift is not a problem. Just about any 8BA will go to a 3 3/8" bore, and there have been examples at 3 7/16"+.030", so you should have all the meat you need for several future rebuilds.

Hmmmmm, 276 huh. Good point about saving a sleeve too. Would it have more chance of overheating?

[tubman]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Hmmmmm, 276 huh. Good point about saving a sleeve too. Would it have more chance of overheating?

I've never had a problem. Plus, think of all the new engines with "thin-wall" cylinders (most won't even take a .60 overbore because of wall thickness) that never have problems. Just make sure the block is clean and everything else is in order. Anyway, you have the same advantage that I do; living in a cool climate.

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by tubman

I've never had a problem. Plus, think of all the new engines with "thin-wall" cylinders (most won't even take a .60 overbore because of wall thickness) that never have problems. Just make sure the block is clean and everything else is in order. Anyway, you have the same advantage that I do; living in a cool climate.

And after 45 years of living on this rock I have yet to be stuck in traffic, so there's always forward motion. The shop I called came highly recommended by a friend on the mainland and was recently called out by 'Uncle Buck' as one of the few flathead friendly shops left around here. They told me to call back this morning and ask for their 'senior' machinest who now leaves the shop around one in the afternoon.

[51504bat]

My suggestion on heads is try to find a set of EAB heads. If not then use 8ba's with 8rt's being the last choice. The EAB heads have the highest compression ratio followed by the 8ba's with the 8rt's being the lowest. I've got EAB heads on the basically stock 8ba in my '39 p/u. It supposedly has a Merc cam and a Buba Chevy conversion distributor. More than enough power for my needs. YRMV

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by 51504bat

My suggestion on heads is try to find a set of EAB heads. If not then use 8ba's with 8rt's being the last choice. The EAB heads have the highest compression ratio followed by the 8ba's with the 8rt's being the lowest. I've got EAB heads on the basically stock 8ba in my '39 p/u. It supposedly has a Merc cam and a Buba Chevy conversion distributor. More than enough power for my needs. YRMV

I think I have some, I'll go look.

[Bored&Stroked]

I'm with Tubman - bore it 1/8" to 3 5/16" and you'll like the power from the additional cubic inches. Heck, throw the Merc crank in it (as you have to order pistons anyway, might as well run the 4" crank). You'll have a sweet running 276" flathead - a great combination!

[GB SISSON]

I found both EAC and EAB heads, but I thought I recall that merc heads made for less compression. ?? Sounds like EAB what I want.

[51504bat]

EAC heads with a 4" Merc crank will be fine. But Merc EAC heads on a Ford 3 3/4" crank means lower compression. If you've got a pair of EAB heads in good shape that would be the way to go. IMO

[flatford8]

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Gary,
That’s what I have in my ‘51 Tudor. 276 with milled EAB heads. Retirement starts tomorrow so I’ll finally have time to finish it……..Mark

[tubman]

I still believe that getting the quench and compression optimized is still one of the best things you can do on a flathead to increase both power and fuel economy. Getting to .045" to .050" over the piston crown is where you want to be. It's a simple matter to bolt the heads on with a set of used gaskets and measure the clearance over the piston with foil balls. The easiest thing to do is to figure out the smallest clearance over the piston and have the heads milled to bring it down to the .045"-.050" figure. Do not be surprised if each head needs to be milled a different amount. What I do is to have the heads milled to be .045"-.050" clearance on the largest existing clearance and then use a die grinder to bring the others into spec. I'm skating on thin ice here, because I have only done aluminum heads which are a lot easier to work than cast iron. In the end, I would think that a properly prepped set of 8RT heads would be superior to a set of "raw" EAB's, but, as I said, I have no real world experience with that particular exercise.

I have never had a problem with clearance over the valve heads with a stock (both Ford and Merc) cam. Also, by getting the quench correct, the maximum practical compression will follow. Sure, some major combustion chamber mods can be made to bring the compression a bit higher, but for a street engine, that's like chasing the rainbow.

[GB SISSON]

OK thanks much you guys and Mark!!!! I can't even imagine what that must feel like. Congratulations! I'm just gonna taper off as the years go by. Kinda nice telling the annoying customers and slow payers to take a hike. Here's some pics of this morning's haul. Will I need a truck oil pan? I have a pan with a big cleanout plate, and some cast iron bell housings. Most of my recent trucks have been '47 and earlier style engines, so will have to be reminded what this will require. The kid directing the 8ba back into that '51 F3 is 28 now and that was my first flathead 'hillside garage overhaul'.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

OK thanks much you guys and Mark!!!! I can't even imagine what that must feel like. Congratulations! I'm just gonna taper off as the years go by. Kinda nice telling the annoying customers and slow payers to take a hike. Here's some pics of this morning's haul. Will I need a truck oil pan? I have a pan with a big cleanout plate, and some cast iron bell housings. Most of my recent trucks have been '47 and earlier style engines, so will have to be reminded what this will require. The kid directing the 8ba back into that '51 F3 is 28 now and that was my first flathead 'hillside garage overhaul'.

[38 coupe]

I'm also on the EAB head bandwagon. Do you have a used head gasket laying around? If yes, after you have the crank, rods, and pistons installed bolt each EAB head onto the engine with the used head gasket and measure clearances using the foil ball method described above on each piston. Don't be surprised if a head is warped and one end needs more surfacing than the other. Record what is needed and surface accordingly, you can use a dial indicator and magnetic base on the surfacing head so you adjust the ends of the head to remove what is needed. We did that on what turned out to be warped EAB heads for an 8BA (my dad's engine) and it worked really well.

Look through your used Ford camshafts for one in nice condition. Since you are looking to maximize low speed torque instead of mid range power the best cam for your engine is probably a stock 8BA cam. That has the shortest duration of any of the 49-53 camshafts and should build low rpm cylinder pressure best. Ignore suggestions to use an 8CM or EAB camshaft, they are better in the normal driving speeds that you don't get to on your island.

[GB SISSON]

I continue to generate more questions than answers and I have been taking notes on the thread about putting an 8ba into a '46 car. I found two of the truck oil pans, a couple different bells and plates, one water pump that looks like the correct truck pump and so on....I have quite a few crank pulleys but not exactly sure how to identify the right one if I have it. I'm sure I will run a gm one wire alternator and I found both types of slingshot hanging on a nail. How do I identify an 8ba camshaft? I have taken apart at least one merc engine in the past so that cam could be around mixing things up. I know there will be a gear on the snout. Oh, and Les, the machinest sounded like it's a nice job for him, being all clean and disassembled and in good shape. He likes the .125 over bore and said we can talk pistons when I drop it off next week. I also noted there are no cam bearings in it. He DID say he's really busy and it will be two months before he can get to it. That's ok, I don't drive the woodie in the winter, but the fourth of July parade has become a high point for my 5 grandkids so there is some urgency after the block comes home. Gonna be lots to do and don't forget the transmission needs some real attention or replace??? Never a moment's rest, just the way I like it! Thanks all for the help!

[38 coupe]

Trying to answer questions you mentioned above:

Use a wide belt crank pulley. The 8BA era ones are visually different from the 42-48 era pulleys. The later sheaves are closer together, the earlier sheaves are further apart. The front belt that runs the fan is in the same place on both engines, but the belt that runs the water pumps and generator is moved forward on the 8BA era so the belt leaves room for the distributor.

Use the starter plate that matches the bell housing. My memory is the stamped Mercury bell housing uses a starter plate that is flat behind the flywheel and the cast truck bell housing uses a starter plate with a recess towards the flywheel. The recess is to clear the aluminum seal thing (I don't remember the name of it, I just install them).

Truck water pumps have a lower ear than the Mercury water pumps. If the ear is down near the water inlet it is a truck pump, if the ear is up near the pulley it is a Mercury pump. You want truck pumps.

8BA camshaft will have the gear on the front to drive the distributor. I don't remember if there is any identification cast into it. The Mercury and later Ford camshafts will have something cast in them, 8CM, 1CM, EA, etc.

Post pictures of the stuff you are thinking of using and we can all help ID parts and assist with advice if anything looks like it is missing.

[GB SISSON]

Here's a start. First thing I noted on this crank pulley is the lack of a machined surface for the seal. Looking at my crank on the bench I see a woodruff key in that location, so I guess that takes a sleeve piece. I also have what I recall is an 8rt, mostly disassembled but still has the crank and cam in it. It has that pulley, but very bent and gives me an Idea how it's set up. I know I have 2 of these cast iron bell housing pieces, but a quick look yeilded one and two starter plates, not sure about that indent though. The 8rt engine should give me the aluminum rear seal holder and the crank snout piece. We have a houseful of guests so Ol Gramps will need some away time in the shop, which will allow me to get more pics of water pumps etc. This is my first time assembling a V8 from a mixed bag of 'found' parts so please excuse my lack of knowledge in this area. The others were complete engines that I put back together with the labeled parts that were removed, cleaned and painted. Looking through some Old pics I see this engine that came with a bunch of stuff frome East of the cascades. In a weak moment I sold it for 500 bucks to defray the cost of the trip and the missed two days of work. What a dunce....

[Ol' Ron]

I've been folling this thread and I think the real question iscost vs performance and econmy. Try this: Offy 3 5/16 Hyper utectic pistons and rings 600 bucks installed in most shops. This gives more cubs and a point in compression. Now for the trick stuff EAB cam and heads. The heads will work on a 59 block as well use gasket for the head. plug the thermostat bypass hole/ Use8ba distributor cover and loadanatic dist & carb. 12v alt and electric fan and fuel pump narrow bely passenget pump pulleys ETC. Finished product less than 3K Power and econmy and a 100,000 ride. Plan ahead!!!!!

[38 coupe]

The bell housing looks like a cast truck unit. The starter plate appears to be a flat Mercury unit, but I could be mistaken it is a bit hard to see in the picture. The crank pulley is a truck unit, and yes behind the pulley you need to use the spacer with the grooves for the rope seal. Either oil pan should work, I recommend taking the clean out plate and associated retaining parts off the pan and cleaning everything, then reassembly with your favorite sealing goo.


The engine in the front of your picture is a 53 truck version without engine mount ears on the water pumps. You want pumps like the engine in the background.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Here's a start. First thing I noted on this crank pulley is the lack of a machined surface for the seal. Looking at my crank on the bench I see a woodruff key in that location, so I guess that takes a sleeve piece. I also have what I recall is an 8rt, mostly disassembled but still has the crank and cam in it. It has that pulley, but very bent and gives me an Idea how it's set up. I know I have 2 of these cast iron bell housing pieces, but a quick look yeilded one and two starter plates, not sure about that indent though. The 8rt engine should give me the aluminum rear seal holder and the crank snout piece. We have a houseful of guests so Ol Gramps will need some away time in the shop, which will allow me to get more pics of water pumps etc. This is my first time assembling a V8 from a mixed bag of 'found' parts so please excuse my lack of knowledge in this area. The others were complete engines that I put back together with the labeled parts that were removed, cleaned and painted. Looking through some Old pics I see this engine that came with a bunch of stuff frome East of the cascades. In a weak moment I sold it for 500 bucks to defray the cost of the trip and the missed two days of work. What a dunce....

[GB SISSON]

This forum is such a great resorce with all this help. I should be able to come up with two of those water pumps and if they seem good I'll use them. Ol'Ron put it well when he suggested that the price can spiral outa control so quickly when doing something like this, so for the most part I will use what I have and buy what I have to.
Now it's time to paw through my stack of flywheels. I remember the new clutch thats been in the woodie for about 2000 miles is a ten inch. I also recall that the holes in an 8ba flywheel are drilled clear through. Wish me luck on my ongoing treasure hunt.

[GB SISSON]

From ten flywheels I found 2 8ba's drilled for 10" clutch with good ring gears and a 10" disc. I also found two more cast bell housings, four oil pumps, and a large number of exhaust manifolds, late intake manifolds and ported carbs. I know some prefer the original ford pumps over reproduction parts. The two setups pictured have similar overall length. Would these be correct for the truck pan?

[38 coupe]

The short pump was the last, best, design from Ford. It should have helical gears in it that makes for a more efficient pump. It is such a popular pump to use in all flathead rebuilds that new copies of the short body pump are still made today by Mellings. It looks like the pickup tube on the pump is the correct one for a truck pan. It is easy to check, slide the pump into an empty flathead block and set the truck pan without the clean out plate on top. The pickup cup should line up with the clean out opening.


Keep the pictures coming, this is kinda fun.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

From ten flywheels I found 2 8ba's drilled for 10" clutch with good ring gears and a 10" disc. I also found two more cast bell housings, four oil pumps, and a large number of exhaust manifolds, late intake manifolds and ported carbs. I know some prefer the original ford pumps over reproduction parts. The two setups pictured have similar overall length. Would these be correct for the truck pan?

[GB SISSON]

The parts go on forever, but the (8ba) party never ends.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

The parts go on forever, but the (8ba) party never ends.

[GB SISSON]

What can I say Pete? Ya dunnit again. Thanks!

[38 coupe]

Looks like a helpful collection of parts. Hopefully you can find a matching left side water pump.
Do you have a road draft tube setup?
Also, show us a picture of the distributor you are going to run. There are two different timing cover and distributor types for in the 8BA era and there is one combination that doesn't work.

[pistonbroke]

Hi Gary. I'm glad to hear you still have a shop near you that knows older stuff. When I left Olympia last April I had to go to Portland to find someone that knew and welcomed a 53 mercury block into their shop. If you run the ford crank I have a set of EAB heads that someone milled to far to clear a four inch stroke so they wont work for me. Tim

[GB SISSON]

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Originally Posted by 38 coupe

Looks like a helpful collection of parts. Hopefully you can find a matching left side water pump.
Do you have a road draft tube setup?
Also, show us a picture of the distributor you are going to run. There are two different timing cover and distributor types for in the 8BA era and there is one combination that doesn't work.

Hmmmm, I see! The distributors are clearly not the same... And Tim, the guy doing the machining is mostly retired. I heard his son runs the auto parts store in front and the dad works part time and told me he just does it now as a hobby. Some big shoes to fill when all these guys retire for good! I will be running that merc crank in this one.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

The distributors are clearly not the same...

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by petehoovie

Thanks again Pete... And Hmmmmm, maybe the one on the left has an H on it because it's for a six? I'll count the cam lobes and I'm sure I have a couple more 8ba types kicking around.

[GB SISSON]

The red H tag distributor does have 8 lobes, so it's the other V8 style. My block passed pressure test with no bubbles on any block surface at 20 psi, and I magnafluxed the entire block twice, just for practice. No cracks anywhere, not even water jacket to bolt holes. Because I had everything out I then magged the 8ba block on the base of the stand and did indeed find a crack from a valve pocket over to the cylinder. It was a pretty fine crack, but showed up clearly with the bright yellow powder. I bolted some cedar 3x4s to the pan rails for transport and to protect the bearing caps. I have some work to do at an ongoing project on the mainland, then stop at the machine shop and next day a n appointment with the cardiologist. Thanks all for the nudge to visit the machine shop. I'm pretty excited about it, as if you couldn't tell....Big adventure.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

The red H tag distributor does have 8 lobes, so it's the other V8 style. My block passed pressure test with no bubbles on any block surface at 20 psi, and I magnafluxed the entire block twice, just for practice. No cracks anywhere, not even water jacket to bolt holes. Because I had everything out I then magged the 8ba block on the base of the stand and did indeed find a crack from a valve pocket over to the cylinder. It was a pretty fine crack, but showed up clearly with the bright yellow powder. I bolted some cedar 3x4s to the pan rails for transport and to protect the bearing caps. I have some work to do at an ongoing project on the mainland, then stop at the machine shop and next day a n appointment with the cardiologist. Thanks all for the nudge to visit the machine shop. I'm pretty excited about it, as if you couldn't tell....Big adventure.

[Als48]

Hey Gary! That's not a Ford! Ha ha

Al Hook

[GB SISSON]

Nope, not a Ford. Until I can find a used Ford excursion 3/4 ton 4wd with 150,000 miles at a government auction for 1800.00, I'll keep running these suburbans. I like the gov't ones, vinyl bench seat, vinyl floors, crank up windows, AC delete and plain steel wheels. My previous one even had an SM465 granny low 4 speed.
The machinest told me my block was in remarkably good condition. He asked if I wanted him to magnaflux it or trust my job? I decided to have him check my work. I also told him it didn't have hard seats and was that ok with so much of the use at 40 mph and below? His answer was that he always does seats and maybe the next owner or heirs would want to run it on the freeways. I asked how much and was pleasantly surprised. I said yes. He likes doing the 1/8" over bore. He will also install cam bearings. I left him a flywheel to surface and a couple sets of rods. When I walked into the old shop he was polishing crank journals on a big red lathe and I felt like I was stepping back in time. He will order the +.125 pistons so he has them in hand. A great trip all in all.

[51504bat]

Are you going to sonic test the block to check for core shift?

[Als48]

Hey GB,

Sounds like a great buy on the Gov Surplus Suburban. I bid on a few vehicles years ago when I worked at the government fuel plant, really wanted that almost cherry 3-yr old chevy C10 which had a bad engine. I was a few bucks short on that one I was of course, kidding about the Chevy/GMC. I've owned most every brand over the years. My '48 is a hodgepodge of parts much like your "Foyota". Olds engine, GTO trans, Firebird Bellhousing, Chevy truck clutch, Jeep clutch master cylinder, Chevy rearend, BMW seats and the list goes on.

Stay with it on your Mercury motor, I'm loving it. By the way, I've got a Merc engine behind the barn that I keep thinking I'll pull out and tear into. It hasn't even turned over in almost 50 years. Probably a hopeless case.

Al Hook

[GB SISSON]

I did not discuss sonic testing with Les. He seemed to be very knowledgeable about our V8s, but I will bring it up with him. And Al, we speak the same language for sure! Your merc, if the late style is worth tearing into just for the 4" crank, and you never know where you might be able to use some of the other parts.

[Bored&Stroked]

Make sure your machine shop knows you're running a 4" crank - as the compression height of the pistons has to match the stroke. If you can, get pistons with metric rings - they are so much better than the ole Grant or Hastings stuff we used to run. They're available (pistons and rings) from Ross - but they may be a bit pricier than you'd like.

Best of luck - this will be a fun project.

Lastlly: You should have him balance the whole reciprocating assembly . . .

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

Make sure your machine shop knows you're running a 4" crank - as the compression height of the pistons has to match the stroke. If you can, get pistons with metric rings - they are so much better than the ole Grant or Hastings stuff we used to run. They're available (pistons and rings) from Ross - but they may be a bit pricier than you'd like.

Best of luck - this will be a fun project.

Lastlly: You should have him balance the whole reciprocating assembly . . .

Yes, he knows all about the 4" crank. He got a big smile when I told him I was using it and had it already ground. He said he would order the merc pistons from his supplier and fit them along with the rings. Like many of you experts here on the 'barn, he urged me to use high quality parts and not cut corners (such as my thoughts of not adding hard seats) at this stage of the game. He quoted me 250.00 for 16 seats installed. Then it was ME smiling. I will have him balance it for sure.

[flatford8]

The big smiles are gonna be even bigger when your driving that Woody with a new motor!!....Mark

[Als48]

I agree with Flatford. I love that woodie!

Al Hook

[GB SISSON]

I think ol Woodie will like its new powerplant too. Keep in mind that if the transmission hadn't developed issues, we'd still be rolling along with my overhauled 221 replacement block engine. Like you can see, I did not have the flywheel surfaced and that, along with used motor mounts made the rig shake and shudder when trying to ease into forward motion on my hill. With the added torque, good flywheel and new mounts I would think that rebuilding the standard 3 speed will be adequate. However, a T-5 should be pretty straightforward with this open driveline

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

I think ol Woodie will like its new powerplant too. Keep in mind that if the transmission hadn't developed issues, we'd still be rolling along with my overhauled 221 replacement block engine. Like you can see, I did not have the flywheel surfaced and that, along with used motor mounts made the rig shake and shudder when trying to ease into forward motion on my hill. With the added torque, good flywheel and new mounts I would think that rebuilding the standard 3 speed will be adequate. However, a T-5 should be pretty straightforward with this open driveline

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by 38 coupe

The short pump was the last, best, design from Ford. It should have helical gears in it that makes for a more efficient pump. It is such a popular pump to use in all flathead rebuilds that new copies of the short body pump are still made today by Mellings. It looks like the pickup tube on the pump is the correct one for a truck pan. It is easy to check, slide the pump into an empty flathead block and set the truck pan without the clean out plate on top. The pickup cup should line up with the clean out opening.


Keep the pictures coming, this is kinda fun.

I continue to gather parts. I know I have a big crate of water pumps but they evade me. What do I need to do for that short body pump before I can use it? I have set it in place and the 'tuna can' centers on the big cleanout hole. It does seem to be about an inch above the floor of the pan. Does that seem like a lot? I don't recall much about the aluminum seal retainer for the truck pan. Does anybody have a picture of one so I know what I'm looking for.? And are these only used in truck pans?

[38 coupe]

I don't remember the distance between the pickup and the oil pan. If nothing looks bent or changed in any way I suspect it will be fine.
Edit: Bored&Stroked provided better information about pickup to pan distance in the next post. Please disregard my advice on this one.


Your engine gasket set should include the oil pump cover gasket. I would take the pump apart, clean everything, and inspect for damage. Sometimes the inside of the cover needs to be lapped flat again.

As far as the aluminum seal holder, there was a very complete pdf showing all the different bell housings and matching parts several years ago. PDF pages 30 and 31 (images 029 and 030) show the aluminum part and how it assembles with everything else. The Wayback Machine (internet archive) still has it and hopefully this link works: https://web.archive.org/web/20160318...ellhousing.pdf

[Bored&Stroked]

You want the "Tuna Can" to be about 3/16" to 1/4" above the bottom of the oil pan. I've modified original pickups and cut/welded them to get them where I want. Also, found that Speedway had one I could purchase for about $25 that is dang close to what I need for the later short-body pump running in a 59x with a stock 59x pan.

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speed...Tube,4289.html

[GB SISSON]

Thanks for today's input guys! That wayback PDF has a lot to digest and not sure still what goes with what. There should be an aluminum seal plate on that 8rt engine that is not fully disassembled yet. I recently found a stamped steel bellhousing and I think I now have 3 cast iron ones. I also uncovered a recess stamped starter plate, will get a pic. I think I will weld up an extension tube to get the tuna can down low. I remember seeing them in the past from under the car and they were way closer than my 1".
I have been back to visit my 85 yr old machinest friend who's been selling off his tools. I now have a nice starrett telescopic gauge and starrett mic set along with a mitoyu dial caliper, new in a sealed box. Along with this purchase I was given free instruction in their use and care. I am now able to better to measure bores along with the dial bore gauge I bought from him last month. I ordered diamond dressers for my valve seat grinder and the valve surfacer and enjoying getting to know that process. Having this heated space for tinkering has been a godsend. There is a space about 5' long along one wall where an Atlas Clausing 100 series 12 x 36 lathe just might end up in a few weeks. I am anything BUT a machinest, but I seem to have a never ending lust for knowledge and the price is looking right. Ok back down to the shop to feed that hungry wood stove and dig for parts!

[cas3]

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All good news ! every growing boy needs a lathe to play with, good for you!

[Bonus Built Acres]

Hey Gary, Nice collection of engines and parts there, you can never have too many parts when you start trying to put something together! keep up the good work and I always enjoy your projects and threads!

[38 coupe]

You have to be careful with machine tools, they can get as distracting as old Fords!

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by 38 coupe

You have to be careful with machine tools, they can get as distracting as old Fords!

Honestly I have been very afraid of what will most likely happen. Flathead Fords have been in my life for over 35 years, but there have been some strange and disturbing 'sub obsessions' over the years. 28 antique Briggs and Stratton engines from 'Smith Motor Wheels' and way too many of the letter series models with overhead valves/exposed rockers etc, 8 Sears David Bradley walk behind tractors, most of the implements etc, Hit n Miss engines for 15 years where I would tear these rusted hulks completely apart and rebuild and never quit until I was truly happy with the perfect idle and coast. I'm a sick puppy. Hoping to go to Seattle on Thursday to look at a couple lathes I've enquired about. Maybe I should get both as I will surely need parts. Is there a 'roll-eyes' imogee here?

[Bored&Stroked]

Always better to have at least '2 of everything'! LOL

[GB SISSON]

Last weekend we had a rare 5 degree spell. Today it was 6" of snow. I cancelled my Seattle trip and hope to finish insulating the walls in my engine shop tomorrow. So much accumulated junk to take down and insulate behind and put back up. I'm 2/3 done and a huge difference. The woodstove is no longer running at WOT. Good idea Skip!

[flatford8]

Originally Posted by cas3

All good news ! every growing boy needs a lathe to play with, good for you!

This is the one he needs right here Bud!........Mark

[Als48]

Wow, Flatford!

Are those 3 Ford Transmissions hanging up there? Lotsa weight.

Al Hook

[cas3]

And now class, your home work assignment is to write down all possible final output gear ratios in order.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by flatford8

This is the one he needs right here Bud!........Mark

[flatford8]

Originally Posted by Als48

Wow, Flatford!

Are those 3 Ford Transmissions hanging up there? Lotsa weight.

Al Hook

When these pics were first posted, I think the group decided the one on the far right was a V8-60. It may have been for sale? Not sure about that. I bet Gary has enough transmissions on the hill to make something like this......Mark

[GB SISSON]

Gosh, I'm late to the party.... Been insulating since 6 am. Just came in for hot lunch. So, was that built as a joke? As noted, the trannys don't seem well supported or braced. Not sure I'd wanna be standing under them when they are taking a 1/2" cut in compound, compound, compound. I have to admit, I love the shifters. "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!".....

[sidevalve8ba]

Reminds me of an old Mack dump truck with a Tri-plex transmission.

[Bored&Stroked]

Try 'speed shifting' that dude . .

[38 coupe]

Originally Posted by cas3

And now class, your home work assignment is to write down all possible final output gear ratios in order.

Not in order, but how about table format? I needed something quiet to do before my wife woke up. I assumed the most common 60 hp and 85 hp ratios.

[GB SISSON]

I can't begin to figure out how that lathe would work. Since we got far away from measuring cylinder bores, here's what I finally had to do today so I could catch the early morning ferry to look at the old 12x36 lathe I've heard about. In 2 weeks I have been off my ten acres for a total of one short trip to town. Been snowbound for a week. Even if I plowed my 1/2 mile steep gravel road, the county roads were impassable. 58 sq miles and 2 plows, maybe 3 if you count the road grader. Well we heard the county road had thawed and melted clean, but the snow up here fell on very frozen ground. Every day hoping to take ferry, see lathe. Well it got slushy today so I hooked my homemade snow plow to the forks on my '82 case skidsteer. I made it from a 3 point grader blade. The angle is rotated with a jailbar steering box with a crank where the wheel was. A spring loaded pin drops into the hole as it is cranked around. Chains on the front, about 35 degrees out but gotta head down hill in the dark at 5:45 am tomorrow in empty 4wd pickup, so plowed away. This is my 3rd year with it, works great. I also adapted honda disc brakes down inside the thing. Couple of really close calls on my mountainside with hydrostatic drive. Ok, will be back on Tuesday and get this thing unloaded.

[Mart]

As a retired transmission engineer I sat down and mapped all the available ratios. Many ratios are duplicated and the result is actually 7 usable ratios. The ratio spread, which is most important is a useful 29:1.
Again using common ratios for the 3 boxes and assuming a motor speed of 1500 rpm and a final drive from the last gearbox output to the spindle of 1.5:1 I compiled the following table.
On top of all this there might be alternate final drives via the flat belt and a back gear.

But here is what I found:

[38 coupe]

Originally Posted by Mart

As a retired transmission engineer I sat down and mapped all the available ratios. Many ratios are duplicated and the result is actually 7 usable ratios. The ratio spread, which is most important is a useful 29:1.

Mart, your list, which is better than mine in most ways, left out the option of using the reverse gears. You can also get approximately 40:1 and 52:1 by doubling and tripling the reverse ratios. Are these simply too low for practical use?

[Mart]

Yes, reverse could be used. As it was just an academic exercise I didn't want to make it over complicated. You would have to use two boxes in reverse to maintain forward rotation.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

I can't begin to figure out how that lathe would work. Since we got far away from measuring cylinder bores, here's what I finally had to do today so I could catch the early morning ferry to look at the old 12x36 lathe I've heard about. In 2 weeks I have been off my ten acres for a total of one short trip to town. Been snowbound for a week. Even if I plowed my 1/2 mile steep gravel road, the county roads were impassable. 58 sq miles and 2 plows, maybe 3 if you count the road grader. Well we heard the county road had thawed and melted clean, but the snow up here fell on very frozen ground. Every day hoping to take ferry, see lathe. Well it got slushy today so I hooked my homemade snow plow to the forks on my '82 case skidsteer. I made it from a 3 point grader blade. The angle is rotated with a jailbar steering box with a crank where the wheel was. A spring loaded pin drops into the hole as it is cranked around. Chains on the front, about 35 degrees out but gotta head down hill in the dark at 5:45 am tomorrow in empty 4wd pickup, so plowed away. This is my 3rd year with it, works great. I also adapted honda disc brakes down inside the thing. Couple of really close calls on my mountainside with hydrostatic drive. Ok, will be back on Tuesday and get this thing unloaded.

[cas3]

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A+ on the ratio assignment for both you boys! And GB gets an A+ also for that fine contraption. I use a blade on the front of of my 863 BobCat also, but I cheated and just had to make a mount for an old blade off a pickup

[GB SISSON]

Had a great trip South. Left here at 6 am, got home at 11 pm. Was a CL ad, didn't know what to expect, but guy was closing up a little hole in the wall auto shop. Lots of cool stuff crammed into a small space. He kept saying "You want this?", "Can you use something like this?",. I left with a lot of stuff, but the lathe was the crown jewell. I have been studing at youtube U for a couple weeks and this thing passes the usual tests for play/slop/wear with flying colors. No chipped teeth or missing parts. Not a lot of extra lathe tooling but sure got a bunch of neat stuff nobody wants or uses today. Well, almost nobody. Adjustable reamers, more measuring stuff. Mitutoyo large dial caliper, mituyoyo dial indicator/magneric base. Stuff. Today I was supposed to build some stuff for a contractor in my wood shop. I got as far as making a fire in the woodstove and went down to look at my stash in the pickup. Then my buddy Tim showed up to help unload, then it was 3 in the afternoon. I can build that guy's stuff tomorrow. I'm finding at 70, a guy has to have his priorities straight. Next priority is coming up with a nice 3/4 hp single phase motor to replace the 1/2 hp 3 phase. 1/2 hp was standard, 3/4 an option.

[tubman]

I like that lathe. It looks to be just the size I've been looking for. Everything I've found is either huge and heavy or too expensive. Good call on looking for a new motor. I got a real good deal on a floor model drill press with a 3-phase motor. To keep things simple, I used an electronic phase converter and found out that you lose a lot of power that way.

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by tubman

I like that lathe. It looks to be just the size I've been looking for. Everything I've found is either huge and heavy or too expensive. Good call on looking for a new motor. I got a real good deal on a floor model drill press with a 3-phase motor. To keep things simple, I used an electronic phase converter and found out that you use a lot of power that way.

Ditto on all the above. I have been looking at older lathes for about 2 months. First I wanted a 6x18 Craftsman/Atlas, but fell in love with a South Bend 9x36 until I found out with the countershaft/flywheel out back, they sit 37" off the wall to the front of lathe. The 12x36 Atlas Clausing models 100, 200 and later 4800 series are way more compact in that direction. In the last 4800 models, an undermount motor in a cabinet was an option. Mine is a 4818 with that option. Face of machine is 22" off back wall. The cabinet without motor weighs just under 350 lbs and is made from 3/16 material. The lathe weighs 550 or so. I also looked into static phase converters, but with only 2/3 use of the 1/2 hp motor sounds a bit puny. The one I bought has the old time look for my '40s-'50s style auto repair shop, but on a more practical base. And yes for sure there are 10' lathes on CL 8000 lbs and get no offers when listed at 600 bucks.

[cas3]

Very nice lathe, I'm a fan of Clausing. Clausings do the math for you. Say you want to cut .010 off a part, you sent the dial to .010. It then makes a .005 cut, so .005 of each side of a shaft is .010 reduction in size. On many lathes, if you want to cut .010, you set the dial to .010 and have made a .020 cut...10 off each side.

Now to argue with Denny, I have three 3 phase machines in my shop running off cheap 3 phase converters from ebay. About 60 bucks for the small ones up to a 3hp motor. I have never seen any change in my electric bill, but they get used a couple hours a month at absolute most. May sit for months with no use, but I would never be without them. Good score GB!

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Had a great trip South. Left here at 6 am, got home at 11 pm. Was a CL ad, didn't know what to expect, but guy was closing up a little hole in the wall auto shop. Lots of cool stuff crammed into a small space. He kept saying "You want this?", "Can you use something like this?",. I left with a lot of stuff, but the lathe was the crown jewell. I have been studing at youtube U for a couple weeks and this thing passes the usual tests for play/slop/wear with flying colors. No chipped teeth or missing parts. Not a lot of extra lathe tooling but sure got a bunch of neat stuff nobody wants or uses today. Well, almost nobody. Adjustable reamers, more measuring stuff. Mitutoyo large dial caliper, mituyoyo dial indicator/magneric base. Stuff. Today I was supposed to build some stuff for a contractor in my wood shop. I got as far as making a fire in the woodstove and went down to look at my stash in the pickup. Then my buddy Tim showed up to help unload, then it was 3 in the afternoon. I can build that guy's stuff tomorrow. I'm finding at 70, a guy has to have his priorities straight. Next priority is coming up with a nice 3/4 hp single phase motor to replace the 1/2 hp 3 phase. 1/2 hp was standard, 3/4 an option.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by cas3

Very nice lathe, I'm a fan of Clausing. Clausings do the math for you. Say you want to cut .010 off a part, you sent the dial to .010. It then makes a .005 cut, so .005 of each side of a shaft is .010 reduction in size. On many lathes, if you want to cut .010, you set the dial to .010 and have made a .020 cut...10 off each side.

Now to argue with Denny, I have three 3 phase machines in my shop running off cheap 3 phase converters from ebay. About 60 bucks for the small ones up to a 3hp motor. I have never seen any change in my electric bill, but they get used a couple hours a month at absolute most. May sit for months with no use, but I would never be without them. Good score GB!

No argument here; I mis-posted "use a lot of power", when I meant "lose a lot of power". (Since corrected.)

[GB SISSON]

So, Skip and Denny and others (Is there an electrical engineer in the house?). It would be nice to use the switching and controls that came on it. There is a large Allen Bradley box on the left end and the three buttons up front are forward, stop, reverse. Keep in mind my brain doesn't work with things I cannot see (like electricity). I recently bought a beautiful, huge 1/2 hp baldor pedestal grinder. It had come from Boeing surplus and looks brand new. Got home and 3 phase. I bought a 85.00 ebay static converter for it but havent hooked it up yet. I sure hate to lose that hp, but maybe I try it? I read about VSD systems, but don't understand. Do they not steal HP? I have talked to place in Ca that makes converters for like 250.00. I could spend that if necessary. I am very confused about how to power up this thing. Dang, I can ramble. Oh and Pete, another A+ for enlargement job. Thanks all, GB

[tubman]

Despite all my complaining about "losing a lot of power", I would try the phase converter and see if it is adequate for your needs. I got the drill press from a friend who had it in his shop, running on three phase power and had used it many times. Thus, the loss of power was quite apparent to me, but it is still eminently usable. I had looked for a replacement motor, but it seems everybody else is and they are getting scarcer and scarcer. If I found one, I'd buy it in a heartbeat, but in the meantime, I am still able to make those little curlicues of metal.

Like everything else these days, things electronic seem to be getting better and better as well as cheaper and cheaper, unlike the older stuff which is hard to find and expensive when you do. Just make sure the phase converter is rated for your equipment.

[Bob C]

I have a Variable Frequency Drive on my mill and love it.

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by Bob C

I have a Variable Frequency Drive on my mill and love it.

I looked up a few of them - can take 230V input (single phase) and output 230V 3-phase . . . powering up to a 3 HP motor. Price is very cheap (in comparison to most rotary phase converters).

Was wondering which brand/model you have and what horsepower motor is on your mill?

[flatford8]

People around here are using the big old ones for Yahd Arht……Mark

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by flatford8

People around here are using the big old ones for Yahd Arht……Mark

[Bob C]

Bored&Stroked, my VFD is an Allen-Bradley running a 3 HP motor.

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by flatford8

People around here are using the big old ones for Yahd Arht……Mark

Heck I have two of them there Southbends each one with a 16 inch swing and 6 foot long beds they are outstanding machines. Large enough to swing early Ford axle housings when the need arrives. and large enough to hold a crankshaft as well.

A great machinist once told me its easy to make a large lath small and impossible to make a small lath big. For my laths I have a 3 inch diameter three jaw chuck for the very small jobs and chucks well up in size and of course weight.
Ronnieroadster

[cas3]

That is a shame, a SouthBend lathe left to die. My first lathe was a big antique Lodge&Shipley, cheap, had been tipped over in a move, all the handles broke up, made to run off a line shaft, but 16"x6' so you could make wheels and drive shafts. I was told it was pre wwI due to no numbers on the dials, only hash marks. Lost it in the fire in 2010 I'll post a pic later.

I'm not sure about the power loss with a cheap converter, my lathe and bridgeport start rite up, and #3 is on a 20" disk sander. That machine is slow to get up to speed, but I've always thought its due to just getting that mass moving. Point is, GB's big grinder may act the same, but once up to speed they both will have a huge flywheel effect, and you can't really lean into it without burning the wood, or blueing the metal, so its irrelevant I believe.

Now, here's a typical thing GB will do with his new toy, due to his remote location, and in my case not patient enough to wait for a part in the mail or even wait for the store to open tomorrow morning. And lets not forget all his new"best friends" after folks on the island find out there is a machinist in town! (I charge a 6 pak minimum).

So, my 52 willys jeep had gobs of grease in a front brake assembly. Not just a seal problem, but the spindle had bad wear and rust pits. I got a good spindle from a friend, but it had the wrong bushing for the axle to spin on. The bushing sits in a recess so that there is no way to pull it out without wrecking it. No room for any kind of puller, and remove by screwing in a big tap would wreck it. They are made to be wrecked and replaced, not remove and reuse. So, I did this...

Checked for hardness with a hack saw...its soft. Then cut my old spindle off in the band saw about an 1/8" from the edge of the bushing. Then put the flange in the lathe and face it off down the the end of the recess, or the end of the bushing to see what size pusher to make on the lathe to press it out. In this case I had a hunk of shaft already made from some other project that fit good, so no new one was made. Keep in mind when you own a lathe you never throw away round things! So, I got the bushing out, its good, and better than new as the new ones do not have the grooves in the to help pump grease into the bushing. The same pusher will be used to press it into the spindle. Next, while the 4 jaw chuck was centered up for the flange I put the good spindle in the lathe and spun it while sanding up to 600 grit, she's smooth now!

Here's a crappy pic, never mind the mess, the maid hasn't showed up for work in a while.

[GB SISSON]

Very nice Skip! Yes I'm hoping to get to that point before I'm too old to see. Tonight I wired up the 1/2hp-1hp digital converter that I had bought for my grinder into the new lathe. I didn't have a 220 plug so I crimped on 3 eye terminals and folded them in half in the vice, Instant spade terminals! There is a 5 step pulley system in the base from the motor to the jackshaft above, then the triple matched belt drive up to spindle. With all belts off and power into the Allen Bradley magnetic starter, I hit the forward button on the face of the cabinet stand. My buddy Tim had commented these controls look like something out of the German sub movie 'Das Boot'. Bingo, it fired right up!. I hit stop and after a full minute I decided the stop button didn't work. Finally it looked slower and then stopped. Hit reverse, all good. That step pulley is steel and I'll bet 8" in dia at big end. So when I turned it off I looked at my watch for 2 1/2 minutes til it stopped. Now I know all functions will work with digital converter. Just gotta find the right one. The one I'm using claims 90-95% efficiency retaining the motor's HP. This setup should be fully acceptable as I learn, and down the road I may change systems, but the german sub switching has to stay. Tomorrow I will belt the thing up and CAREFULLY test the functions as outlined in my operator's manual. I love all this input I am getting. Lathe tips for new guy much appreciated. GB

[cas3]

Excellent news! the reason it spun so long is the "flywheel" effect I described for your grinder and my big sander. Its also good news because machines have a better grade of bearings, and yours are obviously good. I have a 3/4HP (I think) bench grinder I bought laying in the dirt at a junk yard for 5 bucks. 40's or 50's I think. Rotten cord, switch and ID plate missing, but looked like a good old quality thing, so I splurged and spent the 5 bucks. Got it running, and that thing will run on for about 5 minutes after you shut it off! never have figured out what make it is, but it will out live me!

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by cas3

That is a shame, a SouthBend lathe left to die. My first lathe was a big antique Lodge&Shipley, cheap, had been tipped over in a move, all the handles broke up, made to run off a line shaft, but 16"x6' so you could make wheels and drive shafts. I was told it was pre wwI due to no numbers on the dials, only hash marks. Lost it in the fire in 2010 I'll post a pic later.

I'm not sure about the power loss with a cheap converter, my lathe and bridgeport start rite up, and #3 is on a 20" disk sander. That machine is slow to get up to speed, but I've always thought its due to just getting that mass moving. Point is, GB's big grinder may act the same, but once up to speed they both will have a huge flywheel effect, and you can't really lean into it without burning the wood, or blueing the metal, so its irrelevant I believe.

Now, here's a typical thing GB will do with his new toy, due to his remote location, and in my case not patient enough to wait for a part in the mail or even wait for the store to open tomorrow morning. And lets not forget all his new"best friends" after folks on the island find out there is a machinist in town! (I charge a 6 pak minimum).

So, my 52 willys jeep had gobs of grease in a front brake assembly. Not just a seal problem, but the spindle had bad wear and rust pits. I got a good spindle from a friend, but it had the wrong bushing for the axle to spin on. The bushing sits in a recess so that there is no way to pull it out without wrecking it. No room for any kind of puller, and remove by screwing in a big tap would wreck it. They are made to be wrecked and replaced, not remove and reuse. So, I did this...

Checked for hardness with a hack saw...its soft. Then cut my old spindle off in the band saw about an 1/8" from the edge of the bushing. Then put the flange in the lathe and face it off down the the end of the recess, or the end of the bushing to see what size pusher to make on the lathe to press it out. In this case I had a hunk of shaft already made from some other project that fit good, so no new one was made. Keep in mind when you own a lathe you never throw away round things! So, I got the bushing out, its good, and better than new as the new ones do not have the grooves in the to help pump grease into the bushing. The same pusher will be used to press it into the spindle. Next, while the 4 jaw chuck was centered up for the flange I put the good spindle in the lathe and spun it while sanding up to 600 grit, she's smooth now!

Here's a crappy pic, never mind the mess, the maid hasn't showed up for work in a while.

[GB SISSON]

Some pics from today...

[petehoovie]

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Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Some pics from today...

[Scotty's 52 F3]

NICE lathe! Now you'll be asking about grinding HSS blanks. I tried a few times and finally bought insert type but still HSS. Enjoy your new toy.

[GB SISSON]

In researching the baldor grinder in the photo above, I found out it is specifically built and set up for grinding carbide lathe tooling. I picked it up on the island. The retired gentleman who sold it to me had a business in machine tools and would often buy whole lots on pallets from Boeing when there was a downturn, or they lost a contract. That top mylar sticker is a Boeing inventory tag. I asked him how much for the grinder and he shrugged his shoulders and said "I dunno, how's a hundred bucks sound ?" Lists for 4200 bucks today. I don't think it's ok to grind steel with the diamond stones, but this system opens up another new realm of discovery. When I look at what lies ahead, entering a whole new field of education at 70 while still self employed in the woodshop, I fear I may have awoken the proverbial 'Sleeping Giant'..... And what ever happened to that nice 8ba block I dropped off with Les at the machine shop? I think that was what this thread was about a long time ago. I need to call him today as I have a few questions.

[GB SISSON]

Don't get me wrong, I like the meandering thread this has become. When I get back on the stroker 8ba, I will likely start a whole new thread about that adventure. Something that can be looked at by future flathead builders who want to drive something cool, or perhaps need basic transportation after the zombie apocolypse.

[GB SISSON]

After morning coffee I went down and hooked up and adjusted the four belts that were off as the lathe had been seperated form it's base. Brought the operators manual down and carefully went through what each knob and lever was for. I engaged back gear as the manual suggested and was in low range on the 5 step motor pulley. That's some slow moving parts. No bad sounds or vibrations. Carraige moving fine both ways. Ran motor for an hour as I tried various combinations and it was still at room temperature. I'm gaining faith in that little digital phase switcher. Fun stuff for sure. And thanks all for the help and encouragement. GB

[Scotty's 52 F3]

The Hobby Machinist is a great forum for beginners. No flaming for newbie questions like on some of the other forums. Lots of antique machines. Easy to get sucked in.

I enjoy your threads, even when they get off topic.

[GB SISSON]

Thanks Scotty, Much like Duane Allman, I was born a ramblin' man. As in blah, blah, blah.... Besides it's mid winter, and here in the PNW we get very little daylight with our Northern latitude, and while I'm not completely sure of this, I think Western Washington is what people are referring to when they talk about "Where the sun don't shine". In many parts of the country, guys (sometimes gals) will go the the diner, coffee shop, McDonald's etc for breakfast, morning coffee, talk trash about each other, catch up on what's going on in town, etc. I was part of that scene in my early 20s in a small town before I moved to Orcas and loved it. If I tried to do that today, it would be a 25 mile round trip, a 5.00 french latte and a six doller croissant sitting with a bunch of new 'Islanders', retired stock brokers, tech executives and college professors who are wondering who this dirtball is that dared to sit at 'their' table. So, like this morning I sit at my laptop visiting with my like minded friends on the barn, and if the subject veers off course a bit. So be it. Rest in Peace Duane....

[51504bat]

GB drinking my morning cup of coffee as I read your post Light drizzle rain here so I'm working on getting the gumption to go to the shop to continue working on repairing the cracks in the steering wheel from my '54 Ranch Wagon. But I really need to take advantage of the wet ground to dig the trench for a water line for the lower shop. But first I'll have another cup. Thanks for all the info you share.
Tim

[Als48]

Hey GB/Ramblin' Man,

I'm enjoying this rambling post as much as anyone. Kinda like a novel-huh! Your recent tool purchases make me think of a fellow who has a great automotive machine shop. He is getting older tho, must be about 87 by now and not in great health. He did the machine work on my off thread engine in my '48 Ford Super Deluxe. He did everything except turning the crank. He's a great machinist, but retired now and his shop is just sitting there going to ruin as he was for the most part a one-man shop and never had a son or an apprentice that stayed for long. It's sad to think of all of his expensive lathes, boring machines, mills, etc. just going to waste. I guess his daughter will have to deal with his estate in a few years. I used to love to go by and just chat with him about some of his history and experiences. Pat likes to talk and he always brings up the '48 Ford hotrod he put a Hemi in when he sees my car. He always had a flathead or two sitting around in various states of assembly in the shop. He also has experience with Hemis, Oldsmobiles and he even had a six-cylinder Austin-Healy engine there on a run stand last time I was in the shop. I'm guessing he's worked on them all.

He went to breakfast with Terry(a Ford guy and one of my oldest friends) and I a few months ago. That's the last time I have seen Pat, as I hear he's in poor health. Good luck with your machine tools and your new stroker motor.

Al Hook

[GB SISSON]

Tim, Al and others, I'm so glad you are enjoying this with me. I thought I'd get some pics up of some of the other good stuff that followed me home from where I got the lathe. It was getting late and he kept uncovering stuff and putting it in my truck. A lot of it had been strewn around on the floor and the place was in dissaray as he was in the process of moving out. The seller had been given most of this by someone who inherited it and it was time to move it along. Now that I have spent some time looking at this collection, primarily the valve seat replacement kit, I would of course like to scour his place looking for more parts and pieces. A lot of what he thought was lathe tooling is adjustable reamers, and a lot of collets that fit drill bits, but the taper is unlike a Morse. ??? The Sioux seat grinder has a huge collection of really nice stones. I have not tested to see if the threads will interchange with my B and D seat grinder's. I have the ford mandrel already. Anyways, everything in these photos came on Sunday's trip. There is still more loose parts here and there, maybe valve seat tools? And yes, I made him take more money than his asking price for the lathe.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Tim, Al and others, I'm so glad you are enjoying this with me. I thought I'd get some pics up of some of the other good stuff that followed me home from where I got the lathe. It was getting late and he kept uncovering stuff and putting it in my truck. A lot of it had been strewn around on the floor and the place was in dissaray as he was in the process of moving out. The seller had been given most of this by someone who inherited it and it was time to move it along. Now that I have spent some time looking at this collection, primarily the valve seat replacement kit, I would of course like to scour his place looking for more parts and pieces. A lot of what he thought was lathe tooling is adjustable reamers, and a lot of collets that fit drill bits, but the taper is unlike a Morse. ??? The Sioux seat grinder has a huge collection of really nice stones. I have not tested to see if the threads will interchange with my B and D seat grinder's. I have the ford mandrel already. Anyways, everything in these photos came on Sunday's trip. There is still more loose parts here and there, maybe valve seat tools? And yes, I made him take more money than his asking price for the lathe.

[Mart]

Nice array of stuff there, Gb. That should keep you busy for a bit!

[flatford8]

Originally Posted by Mart

Nice array of stuff there, Gb. That should keep you busy for a bit!

Ya I agree!!.....it’s like Christmas all over again on the Island!....but it’s all stuff that you actually want!!......I like buying old full tool boxes at yard sales....every piece you pull out is like a new prize.....Good for you GB.....it all couldn’t have gone to a more deserving man!!........Mark

[cas3]

Yup! nice to have a bunch of stuff on hand that can be mixed up and made to do weird jobs that you never knew you wanted to do!

[cas3]

Also, I keep looking back at your grinder. That really is a nice thing. I've only seen one like that once just last year on a machinery auction. I did not bid or watch it sell, no room here for more. Certainly back when we had industrial strength here in the US one of those was in every tool room at the big plants with someone who knew how to sharpen every tool. Got a small miter that fits the track on the table?

[GB SISSON]

My friends here on fordbarn have enriched my life greatly. I finally know people that 'get what I do'. Most folks around here just think I'm some kind of obsessed mechanical nut. Duh. And they don't know the half of it.

[flatford8]

“Most folks around here just think I'm some kind of obsessed mechanical nut. Duh. And they don't know the half of it”........when people around here ask me why I do what I do....I just point to my head and say.....”you have NO idea what’s going on up here”........Mark

[38 coupe]

GB, you might find out that you now have a nice piloted reamer for doing king pin bushings, Your wife might just get to keep her wooden spoons...
Nice collection of stuff. Did you get any high speed steel (HSS) blanks with everything? That grinder should have adjustable rests so you can get the perfect angle when sharpening a tool.

[cas3]

38 coupe, on that grinder the tables tilt for one angle, and then a miter in the track for another angle, so you grind the bit on 2 sides . Truly a fine machine

[GB SISSON]

No High speed steel blanks, but I see they can be had quite reasonably. And Skip, I have lusted after a big baldor pedestal grinder for years and this falls on my lap on the island, just before I get the lathe.....I thought about mentioning that the poor old wooden spoon may have to be put out to pasture. Never seen an adjustable reamer before, now I have a couple handfuls of them. Just got back from a jobsite. I hate this work stuff interfearing with my new tools. Oh well, it's Friday. I'll get a fire going down there early tomorrow morning.

[cas3]

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2 angles, I should have said in above post. Thats whats so special about it, made really for sharpening lathe tools, not lawn mower blades and chisels. In my shop I have 3 grinders. One, wire wheel and corse stone for whatever. two, my nice smooth runner,
a green stone for carbide tool bits, and a brown stone for steel that I keep true for grinding the steel back a bit before dressing the carbide...never put steel on your green stone, and dress them often for true. three, is for doing tungsten tig welding rods. A normal gray stone on one side to rough in a tip, and a diamond face disk on the other side to finish the point and remove the stone contamination. And still...Like GB I have always lusted a big ol' baldor grinder.
Anyway, that is a special grinder GB got, like I said I've only seen one other. I'll bet Kube could tell us all about it as a tool and die maker. I'm no machinist, I just own machines.

[cas3]

GB, here's a book you will enjoy, "how to run a lathe" put out by SouthBend in....I dunno,
my copy is 1940. After owning a lathe for 30 years I still look at it to refresh my memory on some topics. Mine was an ebay buy, there are reprints and originals there, pretty cheap, I think you will like it. lousy pic, maybe Pete Can fix it!

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by cas3

GB, here's a book you will enjoy, "how to run a lathe" put out by SouthBend in....I dunno,
my copy is 1940. After owning a lathe for 30 years I still look at it to refresh my memory on some topics. Mine was an ebay buy, there are reprints and originals there, pretty cheap, I think you will like it. lousy pic, maybe Pete Can fix it!

[GB SISSON]

Thank you Skip, Thank you Pete. I now have a used version heading this way from amazon. I have been researching the valve seat cutter and come up with more questions than answers. I found some complete sets on ebay with good photos and that is really helpful to know what stuff from my piles goes with this set. Still unsure it that huge 'drill motor' came with the set, or if you were to drive it with your own big drill. Found some more interesting parts last night. Will get some pics.

[flatjack9]

Look in to Neway valve seat cutters.

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by flatjack9

Look in to Neway valve seat cutters.

Thanks, I checked it out, but it now seems I actually have everything I need to cut the counterbores in the kit I got last weekend. Here's something I don't understand about the terminology used here. Some seat cutters are conical, actually cutting a 45 on a newly pressed in seat. Some seat cutters shown under the same terminology are square shouldered and cut what I would call a counterbore for pressing in perhaps an oversized seat or even seats in an 8ba type to convert to hard seats. Way back in this thread there is a photo of an ugly job someone musta botched on an 8ba in my collection. I also have 2 nos ford seats and a third marked .020 OS . I had thought at first that this mandrel (over a pilot) was driven with a large drill. But I also see mention of a T handle to hand crank the cutter. The written instructions inside the box lid are very hard to read. There are a couple of these same kits on ebay, and though I won't be buying them, they show quite well the few things I'm still missing. I have the correct universal cutter for our fords and a very large one. I'm missing the sizes in between, which makes little difference to me. I'm also missing the driver which looks like a heavy knurled slug with the appropriate pilot hole. First lathe project? and the T handle (easy). Also, would a kit like this normally have the 45 degree cutter for putting the angle on the new seat? I had initially thought the seat angle (or all 3) would be ground in with the stones, but that is not likely the case. You can see I have a lot to learn, but the subject is very interesting to me. I still have a few pics of unidentified tools from the trip I will put up tomorrow for a quiz. Edit: The red and orange cases are the seat cutter and seat grinder all cleaned up and organized.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Thanks, I checked it out, but it now seems I actually have everything I need to cut the counterbores in the kit I got last weekend. Here's something I don't understand about the terminology used here. Some seat cutters are conical, actually cutting a 45 on a newly pressed in seat. Some seat cutters shown under the same terminology are square shouldered and cut what I would call a counterbore for pressing in perhaps an oversized seat or even seats in an 8ba type to convert to hard seats. Way back in this thread there is a photo of an ugly job someone musta botched on an 8ba in my collection. I also have 2 nos ford seats and a third marked .020 OS . I had thought at first that this mandrel (over a pilot) was driven with a large drill. But I also see mention of a T handle to hand crank the cutter. The written instructions inside the box lid are very hard to read. There are a couple of these same kits on ebay, and though I won't be buying them, they show quite well the few things I'm still missing. I have the correct universal cutter for our fords and a very large one. I'm missing the sizes in between, which makes little difference to me. I'm also missing the driver which looks like a heavy knurled slug with the appropriate pilot hole. First lathe project? and the T handle (easy). Also, would a kit like this normally have the 45 degree cutter for putting the angle on the new seat? I had initially thought the seat angle (or all 3) would be ground in with the stones, but that is not likely the case. You can see I have a lot to learn, but the subject is very interesting to me. I still have a few pics of unidentified tools from the trip I will put up tomorrow for a quiz. Edit: The red and orange cases are the seat cutter and seat grinder all cleaned up and organized.

[GB SISSON]

Thanks again Pete! And Flatjack, I just now watched a video of a guy using quickway valve seat cutters in an old 4 cyl jeep block. In my mind a hardened valve seat is just like incredibly hard steel, yet that little yellow quickway carved it out like butter. Maybe all this stuff I dragged home is sitting around in piles, for pennies on the dollar because these new type cutters have made it all obsolete. The guy just cranked it around by hand about 8 times and a perfect seat angle. No vibro motor action, no diamond dressers for the stones, no 40 lb steel boxes. I'm guessing those cutting edges are made of kryptonite. They probably make cutters to recess a valve seat ring down into the block too. Like I said, I know very little on this subject, and I tend to harbor romantic notions about the past and 'the old guy working in the back of the gas station'.... Thing cut that hard seat like it was butter. Amazing.

[38 coupe]

In my very limited experience helping a friend do valve jobs on Model T blocks and flathead V8 blocks the cutters got used on blocks without hard seats (valve seating on the cast iron of the block) and the grinding stones got used on hard seats.

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by 38 coupe

In my very limited experience helping a friend do valve jobs on Model T blocks and flathead V8 blocks the cutters got used on blocks without hard seats (valve seating on the cast iron of the block) and the grinding stones got used on hard seats.

That is what I woulda thought too, but I see a lot of youtube videos made by what seem to be experienced valve people in well equipped shops using some of each on hard seats. Seems grinding is for seats with light wear these days. As far as counterboring for a seat, I am impressed with the Goodson adjustable counterbore and another modern innovation seems to be the SBI system where the cutter has a 4 digit number and so does the seat. The .004 interference fit is built into the system. I am by no means going into the valve grinding trade, but since I happened across this old sioux counterbore setup, I just may attempt to pull that hideous mashed up ring from an otherwise excellent 8ba block and see what I can do. Keep in mind, the machine shop is an all day trip, or two days if you include picking it up. Besides, my little mechanical brain is getting a lot of exercise soaking up all this info.

[Bored&Stroked]

There are various tools used to cut out the hard seats and install new ones. It is important that you have Flathead Ford specific mandrels that pickup the lifter and guide bores to drive the cutters on. One should not attempt to use a valve guide and an OHV pilot to do any of the seat work. The stock guides are too loose in the guide bores! I'm fortunate to have located both Sioux and KwikWay mandrels - for both my valve seat tooling setups.

There are carbide cutters that can be used to cut seat angles, thought they are surely not more accurate than using correct stone procedures. Also, some seat cutters will cut multiple angles in one pass --- like 30, 45 and 60.

Here are a couple video links that I made at the end of last year that show an ancient KwikWay seat cutting tool (glad I found one!), the resulting new/wider seat pockets (for 1.72" valves) and then my friend Jeff Fowler driving in a new seat.

Cutting New Seat Pockets With KwiKWay Seat Cutter:

https://youtube.com/shorts/ZdR1zZLZaTw

59L Race Block - Showing New Seat Pockets:

https://youtube.com/shorts/5Z-EheS73zM

Driving in New 1.75" Seats:

https://youtube.com/shorts/aCrNzCg4W1A

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

There are carbide cutters that can be used to cut seat angles, thought they are surely not more accurate than using correct stone procedures. Also, some seat cutters will cut multiple angles in one pass --- like 30, 45 and 60.

The carbide cutters do a more accurate job if used in the proper machine like a Serdi.

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

There are various tools used to cut out the hard seats and install new ones. It is important that you have Flathead Ford specific mandrels that pickup the lifter and guide bores to drive the cutters on. One should not attempt to use a valve guide and an OHV pilot to do any of the seat work. The stock guides are too loose in the guide bores! I'm fortunate to have located both Sioux and KwikWay mandrels - for both my valve seat tooling setups.

There are carbide cutters that can be used to cut seat angles, thought they are surely not more accurate than using correct stone procedures. Also, some seat cutters will cut multiple angles in one pass --- like 30, 45 and 60.

Here are a couple video links that I made at the end of last year that show an ancient KwikWay seat cutting tool (glad I found one!), the resulting new/wider seat pockets (for 1.72" valves) and then my friend Jeff Fowler driving in a new seat.

Cutting New Seat Pockets With KwiKWay Seat Cutter:

https://youtube.com/shorts/ZdR1zZLZaTw

59L Race Block - Showing New Seat Pockets:

https://youtube.com/shorts/5Z-EheS73zM

Driving in New 1.75" Seats:

https://youtube.com/shorts/aCrNzCg4W1A

PERFECT! Exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks so much for all this. I just came up from the 'Wannabe machine shop with training wheels', and my wife (best wife ever) served me a hot lunch. Now I'm going to scour these videos. I am also very fortunate to have the Ford pilots for both my B&D seat grinder and another for my Sioux seat cutter and grinder setups. The two pilots don't interchange as the Sioux is larger. You can see the Sioux has only one taper that indexes onto the guide area. It still seems solid, but not like the B&D double job. Now for a bonus, last weeks lathe haulback also netted a quick coupled T handle for removing the B&D pilot. I have done two engines with that pilot and was always confounded by the effort to unstick it. I took to tapping it out from underneath. Everything else in that haul was Sioux andb the T handle won't fit them. OK, it's movie time. Thanks again in advance. Gary

[GB SISSON]

B&S, Your movies were very informative while being concise. If that were me, I woulda told my life story, then described the whole process I was demonstrating even if I didn't know jack **** about it. Was that about .004 interference on the seats and did you heat the block and or chill the seats? They seemed to go in with authority.

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by Pete

The carbide cutters do a more accurate job if used in the proper machine like a Serdi.

I'd agree with you as far as consistency goes --> same locations, widths, etc.. which is much harder to do in a consistent fashion using multiple stones, but Jeff Fowler believes that when it comes to final seat sealing surface quality, that stones will be as good or better than carbide (depending on who is doing them).

With that said, seat machines like a Serdi sure speed up the whole valve job process in a big way.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

I'd agree with you as far as consistency goes --> same locations, widths, etc.. which is much harder to do in a consistent fashion using multiple stones, but Jeff Fowler believes that when it comes to final seat sealing surface quality, that stones will be as good or better than carbide (depending on who is doing them).

With that said, seat machines like a Serdi sure speed up the whole valve job process in a big way.

If I was going to have a knee or hip replaced, I sure wouldn't want one that had been finish ground instead of machined.

[GB SISSON]

As I have a complete Sioux and complete B&D valve seat grinding aparatus with maybe 30 good stones each, There is no question on how it will be done here. I'm going to assume that Les, over in the machine shop will dress the newly installed hard seats with his equipment before I pick it up. For the time being I'm looking at a couple of the blocks that are good candidates for shop overhaul. That's why I'd like the ability to replace a failed valve seat. I have a jailbar tonner chassis that someone cut the rear frame rails short, some half-decent cabs, lots of nice front fenders, a wrecker boom some hillbilly made from model A frame rails, a 5 ton hand crank winch, basically everything I need to make a 'junkyard dog' wrecker for use on my ten acres. Picture the oxy-atcetylene set behind the cab.... Hope to get started next Fall for a winter project. Of course it will need a V8 so I will pick a block and use all this new to me tooling and build something. All of that will have to wait on the woodie engine/trans swap out. Something makes me want to consider a 9" for the rear, specially if I go with a T-5

[Ol' Ron]

Interesting: I've rum 1.72 valves in a numberof engines, mostly race engines. However, I did do this to a 258 stock engine with EAB cam in a 59 block with EAB heads sa well. IT ran verywell had power up to 5k, shuta used a bigger cam. Wonder where it is today?
Gramps

[51504bat]

GB

Seems like you need one of these:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...g-bandsaw.html


new forum member here. I don't own a Ford lol. I have a 1930's Yates American Y30 Snowflake bandsaw. It has a brake and the shoe has "Ford " stamped on it. It looks just like one that is forsale on ebay. The ebay one is 225 bucks. Is that going rate? Or would i be better off searching elsewhere? Mine works but has been repaired. Any advice is appreciated.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by 51504bat

GB

Seems like you need one of these:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...g-bandsaw.html


new forum member here. I don't own a Ford lol. I have a 1930's Yates American Y30 Snowflake bandsaw. It has a brake and the shoe has "Ford " stamped on it. It looks just like one that is forsale on ebay. The ebay one is 225 bucks. Is that going rate? Or would i be better off searching elsewhere? Mine works but has been repaired. Any advice is appreciated.

[Ggmac]

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Originally Posted by GB SISSON

PERFECT! Exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks so much for all this. I just came up from the 'Wannabe machine shop with training wheels', and my wife (best wife ever) served me a hot lunch. Now I'm going to scour these videos. I am also very fortunate to have the Ford pilots for both my B&D seat grinder and another for my Sioux seat cutter and grinder setups. The two pilots don't interchange as the Sioux is larger. You can see the Sioux has only one taper that indexes onto the guide area. It still seems solid, but not like the B&D double job. Now for a bonus, last weeks lathe haulback also netted a quick coupled T handle for removing the B&D pilot. I have done two engines with that pilot and was always confounded by the effort to unstick it. I took to tapping it out from underneath. Everything else in that haul was Sioux andb the T handle won't fit them. OK, it's movie time. Thanks again in advance. Gary

Could you please give me the part number off of the black & Decker Ford pilot?
I’ve been using an old 50s- 60s shop made pilot with my B&D set up . Its worked okay but wasnt hardened so after all these years , it’s starting to show its age .
I’ve knurled it for the last block but really need an original.
Thank you, Gary

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by Ggmac

Could you please give me the part number off of the black & Decker Ford pilot?
I’ve been using an old 50s- 60s shop made pilot with my B&D set up . Its worked okay but wasnt hardened so after all these years , it’s starting to show its age .
I’ve knurled it for the last block but really need an original.
Thank you, Gary

B&D-VD
14155
Made in USA
1.030-1.0335

VD being VanDorn. The whole kit is identical to the B&D, box and all. Only difference is the name on the tag of the driver. And Tim, after working wood full time for 52 years the woodworking tools no longer call to me. Well maybe THAT saw. Super Cool.

[Ggmac]

Thank you , now to ebay ....
Gary

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by Ggmac

Thank you , now to ebay ....
Gary

If you can't find one just grab a length of 1" re-bar like this guy did. Amazing what they do in 3rd world countries, but note two things... First is this guy's hands. Appears that every finger has been smashed in some way or other and next is how he built up the valve seat with weld. Isn't that one of the methods used to loosen up a seat for removal? My thinking is the seat with all that weld becomes semi-molten, accepts the size/shape of the un-yielding counterbore, then cools and shrinks, aiding removal. Just afraid this poor guy is gonna drop that seat pulling a long grade in with an overload after all this otherwise rather impressive work. Yes, it's dead of winter and at 5am valve work videos are less depressing than the local Seattle news.
https://youtu.be/NQDa2642EW0

[Ggmac]

Well I think it was Ol Ron that said “ when you don’t have money you make some good parts “ or something like that . We have a cold front going through, was 60* this morning, had to wear a long sleeve shirt ! Our local news is the same as yours . Depressing.

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by Ggmac

Well I think it was Ol Ron that said “ when you don’t have money you make some good parts “ or something like that . We have a cold front going through, was 60* this morning, had to wear a long sleeve shirt ! Our local news is the same as yours . Depressing.

Strange... We have a warm front going through, was 60* this morning. No jacket, just a vest over my long sleve shirt.

[flatford8]

It only got to about 25* here today…… it ain’t just the news that’s depressing ……Mark

[GB SISSON]

Just got off the phone with Les at the machine shop. I had a few questions for him and we also discussed balancing the rotating assembly. So now I'm considering getting on the ferry with the crank and pulley, he has the flywheel already. So it looks like I'm in that situation of "well it's already apart and at the shop, might as well get it balanced". Oh well, it Does make sense to do it now. IIRC the flywheel is drilled for 10" clutch, which I don't have yet.

[38 coupe]

If you are going to get things balanced find a good 10" pressure plate and take it with you. Have the flywheel and pressure plate balanced together. Our flathead V8s are internally balanced, the flywheel can be balanced separately from the crankshaft.

[Bored&Stroked]

There is no reason to NOT balance the engine - so now is the time. On the flywheel/clutch, they should each be neutral balanced and then checked together as an assembly. The balancer will then mark on the flywheel/clutch how to assemble them (paint marks and/or punch marks on both) to replicate the setup/indexing on the balance machine.

I balance every engine I've ever built - going back 50 years or so.

Maybe contact Mac VanPelt and see what he has for 10" clutches.

[Ol' Ron]

Never balanced many of my engines, for several reasons. Back in the day there were very few places where you could have the assembly balanced, second : took forever and cost a fortune around 200 bucks. built allot of engines includinf Mopar 383/ 440 and a few 392 hemis. Only one of the stockcar engines took 6 months to get the assy back. and most people didn't bothereither. as for the flathead, The cranlassy was well balanced at the factory. Piston weight isn't very important.However I did use a Shafer alum clutck and flywheel flywheel was marked wher the clutch went on.. Bvill engine was balanced.
I don't think the adverage 258/276 street engine built from an existing engine is necessary. And last but not least the factory rebuilt engine are not balanced, Not at the patterson NJ planr!!!!??
Gramps