Trans Shifter, What's it made of?

[Terry, NJ]

I've been working on a transmission , taking a break from the cars.First thing I did was to fix the little ball at the bottom. I welded it and forged it, then I ground, filed and polished it till it worked smoothly. The weld material seemed somewhat resistant to the file, change file! then I notice I putting tracks in the teeth of the file. Then I try to file the handle of the shifter and it seems resistant too. What is that stuff?
Terry

[Joe K]

Not sure what you used for weld rod. The small section may lead to quick cooling which might tend to "harden" a higher carbon rod.

More than likely the lever is cold-rolled steel which as the name implies is a higher carbon steel formed to shape while cold - which leads to (ahem) "superior material properties." Including surface hardening which you may see during heating to red by "flaking off" of the surface. The surface hardening of non-annealed shifter rod material *might* be enough to cut into a file.

One of the downsides of the repop shifter levers is they're made using common low carbon steel and are easily bent trying the "here I'll swing the shifter lever out of the way for you" Model A trick. Most don't even have the swivel ball as integral part of the lever - usually pressed on.

Joe K

[Terry, NJ]

Joe! Thanks for the reply, but after 20 plus years working in machine shops and welding, this is not CRS. For welding, I use "standard" .025 MIG wire, then I hammer it to forge it. this compactation of the metal hardens it somewhat. It was during the final shaping that I noticed just how hard, resistant it was. I thought it was the file was worn out. It cut, but only a little. Also, I believe that the shift handles were made in two pieces and joined just above the pinned, rotating ball. I believe it is some form of high carbon steel that has been hardened and tempered. I just wondered if anyone knew.
Terry

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by Joe K

Not sure what you used for weld rod. The small section may lead to quick cooling which might tend to "harden" a higher carbon rod.

More than likely the lever is cold-rolled steel which as the name implies is a higher carbon steel formed to shape while cold - which leads to (ahem) "superior material properties." Including surface hardening which you may see during heating to red by "flaking off" of the surface. The surface hardening of non-annealed shifter rod material *might* be enough to cut into a file.

One of the downsides of the repop shifter levers is they're made using common low carbon steel and are easily bent trying the "here I'll swing the shifter lever out of the way for you" Model A trick. Most don't even have the swivel ball as integral part of the lever - usually pressed on.

Joe K

ive heard some of the repops are actually 2 pieces threaded together then plated over the top...they can unscrew.

[RawhideKid]

Aw come on guys. Who would think Henry would make a 2 or 3 or more piece with the possibility of any one of those pieces failing when he could Forge a single piece and with minimal machining have a piece that will not fail. After all, he made one piece brake pivots for the front brakes!

What happened to the common sense you all had when I first found this place a few years ago?

[Dino's A]

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When you MIG weld, the weld metal becomes very hard. My only question would be if the "new" hard welded metal will wear the other parts more now that it is harder.

[Terry, NJ]

Rawhide, That's the other side of the discussion! "Would Henry have......." Funny thing is, that's exactly what I've been asking myself. I don't 'know what processes were in use at the time. The who thing looks like a PITA with long tapers and plunge cuts. And then next to lastly, the bend! Once the bend is done, the hole for the cross pin must be drilled.
Terry

Originally Posted by RawhideKid

Aw come on guys. Who would think Henry would make a 2 or 3 or more piece with the possibility of any one of those pieces failing when he could Forge a single piece and with minimal machining have a piece that will not fail. After all, he made one piece brake pivots for the front brakes!

What happened to the common sense you all had when I first found this place a few years ago?

[Terry, NJ]

Doubtful, The shifting forks (2) are pretty hard themselves. If I had some Kasenite I would have case hardened the shifter ball. For $40 +shipping I could have bought a brandy new one. This makes the "Old Skool" in me rise up in protest!
Terry

Originally Posted by Dino's A

When you MIG weld, the weld metal becomes very hard. My only question would be if the "new" hard welded metal will wear the other parts more now that it is harder.

[SteveB31]

They were made straight, and bent last. All one piece (plus the cover)

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by RawhideKid

Aw come on guys. Who would think Henry would make a 2 or 3 or more piece with the possibility of any one of those pieces failing when he could Forge a single piece and with minimal machining have a piece that will not fail. After all, he made one piece brake pivots for the front brakes!

What happened to the common sense you all had when I first found this place a few years ago?

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

Rawhide, That's the other side of the discussion! "Would Henry have......." Funny thing is, that's exactly what I've been asking myself. I don't 'know what processes were in use at the time. The who thing looks like a PITA with long tapers and plunge cuts. And then next to lastly, the bend! Once the bend is done, the hole for the cross pin must be drilled.
Terry

Here is how they were made;

[RawhideKid]

See, told ya so!

And I suspect that after the pivot hole was drilled, that same hole was used as the indicator for the bend.

Henry common sense tightness

[Terry, NJ]

So you did! However, This thing I've got has a rough area just about where you would expect them to be joined (friction welding?) and then a rough clean up. This would allow two different materials which was why I asked the question. Ok so maybe they did drill the hole first, I wouldn't have located off a lousy 3/16 pin to bend 5/8 + material. Ah who knows! There's more than one way to skin a cat! Maybe he had a special way of clamping or holding the part while the bend was made. Knowing what we know of Henry, he probably had a jig or fixture that bent a dozen or more at a time.

I'd like to see that lathe spitting out better than one a minute in 1930, a long taper, and then re chucking it and plunge cutting the ball, In under a minute? Not likely!
Terry

Originally Posted by RawhideKid

See, told ya so!

And I suspect that after the pivot hole was drilled, that same hole was used as the indicator for the bend.

Henry common sense tightness

[Joe K]

Ok so maybe they did drill the hole first, I wouldn't have located off a lousy 3/16 pin to bend 5/8 + material.

The pin was merely the "locator" for bending - much as it was a locator for positioning the shift lever when in position.

The "trick" involving the Model A shift lever is to "pull up" (thereby pulling the cross pin out of its keeper grooves) and then turning the shift lever first into the lap of your passenger (so they get into the joke) and then forward to nearly hit the dash ("Oh I'm sorry - here let me get this lever out of your way!)

If the pin were not oriented to the bend - the shift lever might be permanently located into the spleen of your passenger.

Joe K

[Terry, NJ]

Joe! There's not a thing you can tell me about those %&@(#ing springs, yesterday I spent two hours of my life that I'll never see again, fighting the good fight with that damned spring and the keeper. But I learned a few things! First off, make a installation tool and the best stuff to make a tool from is the tubing that you can buy at Home Depot that maintains the distance and tension on chain link fence, (1 1/4?) Not the posts! The stuff that runs horizontally and is necked down at one end to fit in the the next one in line. Use the scrap from the necked down end. If anyone wants to make one, just contact me. I've tried compressing the spring and wiring it. This method works for some people but the spring kept flopping around and then the wire broke. So I made this little gadget. It works.....Sorta! You have to be strong because at some point you have to hold it with one hand while pushing the keeper on with the other.
Terry

[Joe K]

I've made Vince Falter's tool for myself. Vince made these for market for a while, perhaps he still does?

I've also done the three wires/compression in a vise. I agree, its like a bomb waiting to go off. When I did this I put a jorgenson woodworking clamp on the bottom of the shift lever below the ball in case the keeper got pushed to one side while I was cutting the wires.

The Vince tool is better.

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/shiftlevertool.htm

Joe K

[Tom Wesenberg]

I also made the tool from the picture Vince posted.
That was the third style spring tool I made, and by far the best.

[Terry, NJ]

One look at that tool and I know where I got the idea from. I had completely forgotten it. The only thing with that tool is that, as I said, ya gotta be strong to hold it down while you feel around for the keeper and get it into position. It needs a "Force Multiplier" to work really well.
Terry