T 5 5 speed VS Mitchell Transmission with overdrive

[gary678*]

To Dick M: As noted in my post#13 I have a T5 transmission. When you refer to A bars are you referring to radius rods? The former owner of my Model A who installed the T5 was an accomplished mechanic and race car driver. At the conversion to a T5 he also installed a heavy duty clutch and heavy duty radius rods. He said at the sale that the transmission was first class and always performed perfectly. In 5+ years I have driven the car over 5,000 miles with not even a minor transmission problem. This Spring I am going to improve rear braking by installing cast iron drums (front ones are now cast iron) and a brake crossover shaft adapter from Valley Machine in Bakersfield, CA. This Fall I helped a friend install this adapter in his 1931 Model A with a T5 transmission; his braking performance is now excellent. Gary D.

[denis4x4]

Originally Posted by Dick M

The T-5 has two poses two serious problems. One is you have to cut the cross member to install. Henry put the crossmember for strength. Cut it and you lose some. Two is you lose the stability of the entire rear end unless you make a replacement for the A bars. I know of a Model Aer with the T-5 trans conversion who turned onto a street doing about 15 miles an hour in his A. The entire rear end shifted, locked up his mechanical brakes, destroyed an emergency brake carrier, and made the backing plate look like a pretzel. I say to each their own. However, I also ask why take such a chance with the T-5 open drive line when the Mitchell retains the stability with the A-Bar design.

See my modifications addressing these issues in post 17. My car has been on the road for 15 years and I've participated in countless A events with no issues.

[gary678*]

To Old 31: On my post#5 on Feb.25 regarding the T5 transmission you requested on your post #12 on Feb.26 what my RPMS were at 60-65 MPH? Today was a beautiful day in New York's Hudson Valley so I took the "A" out for an 11 mile ride; on a long straightaway I ran the car to 65MPH in 5th gear... RPM was between 2600-2700. I do have a 6.1 Snyder head with a 3.78 rear end. My comfort range on open roads is 45-50 MPH in 4th gear (2100-2300 RPM), occasionally going to 55MPH in 5th gear with 2200 RPM. I hope that this helps. Gary D.

[jack backer]

The structural integrity of the model a chassis come from the rigid backbone created by the torque tube driveline. The frame, highly flexible, is a means to support the front axle and provide a platform for the body. In running an open driveshaft you still have the issue of losing that backbone, transferring it to the frame is ill advised, once again the frame isn't designed to provide structural integrity for the chassis. Or to put it another way, its how hotrodders die..

Why run a chinese or mexico made aluminum cased transmission made in the 90's in a model A? to me,its akin to running a honda engine.Learn to shift your A,buy a toyota..if you want to quick shift a 5 speed..and the argument that its for 'performance' isnt sound..youre still going to get your lunch ate by that kid in a civic..

[katy]

Originally Posted by jack backer

youre still going to get your lunch ate by that kid in a civic..

Why would some kid in a civic want to eat my lunch?

[jack backer]

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It’s a food/ growing boy thing.. I had a couple of them, made it hard to keep groceries in the house

[old31]

Thanks Gary. I am surprised that your rpms are so high at 60-65 with a 5th gear.

One of the reasons, besides cost, that made me install a F100 trans is that Mitchell does not have a syncho from 2nd to 1st gear. Many times i will instantly shift from second to first while doing 5-15 MPH. You cant do that with Mitchell.

[jack backer]

The Tremec/ Borg Warner T5 was used by a number of manufacturers,and was available in a few different overdrive ratios.The Camaro version is over a 30% overdrive, others applications are no where near that. It important to know which one your putting in prior to installation. Spinning a stock model A engine 2600 rpm plus is in the danger zone for torsional vibration, the killer of center main bearings

[Russell Reay]

Originally Posted by jack backer

The Tremec/ Borg Warner T5 was used by a number of manufacturers,and was available in a few different overdrive ratios.The Camaro version is over a 30% overdrive, others applications are no where near that. It important to know which one your putting in prior to installation. Spinning a stock model A engine 2600 rpm plus is in the danger zone for torsional vibration, the killer of center main bearings

I had a T-5 in my 57 Chevy pu for a while, so I had occasion to learn a lot about them. There are many, many versions of T5, and the internal specs-gear ratios -can be determined by searching the tag number on the trans case. There is at least one website which lists virtually every tag number and its corresponding specs. I wish I knew that when I bought a unit that came from a 6 cyl engine instead of an 8.

[Y-Blockhead]

Never mind. I see we are discussing the Mitchell trans, not the O/D.

[rotorwrench]

I don't know what all the hubbub is about. Folks have been setting up both T5s and T170s for quite a while and both can be set up for closed drive. As was mentioned, parts have to be modified and adapted but it's all been done.

My only problem with the T5 is the shifter position and the amount of whittling it takes to get it in there. The T170 with torque tube adaptation is a better fit but they are getting harder to get parts for. A person has to look a lot harder for the good gears than say 15 or 20 years ago.

The Mitchel transmission is a new set of synchonized gears in a model A case. It's more similar to the old Ford light duty 3-speed used in the V8 era and works well. It's a direct bolt in. The Mitchel OD is kind of a big unit but they have them all set up to bolt in.

I liked the old Borg Warner R10 overdrive since it's electric and was adapted to the torque tube. No one is producing them anymore but there are still some used ones around if a person looks long enough.

[cmarion]

doesn't have a tag but notes when I acquired it "85 F150 w//1 1/16" 10 spline input it is aluminum case, all setup to bolt in model a pedal shaft emergency brake bracket" etc.

[MrBruce]

My 30 CCPU had the T5 in it and it was nice, but after driving it 65 on the freeway I decided I didn't want to drive the Model A that fast. It was nice and smooth, but opted to do the Mitchel. I only had trouble when I hauled 9 boxes of oak flooring and unknown to me it split the radius rods as the shocks were attached to them (being they are hollow) it squeezed the radius rods and evidently from putting that load on them they split. I drove it for two years like that and didn't notice it. I wouldn't do that to a pickup as you have to cut the main cross member up and the Mitchel you don't have to butcher the under side of the car. Just my thoughts, I have a Mitchel going into my 31 S/W Town Sedan and am looking forward to it.

[bruceincam]

Originally Posted by cmarion

doesn't have a tag but notes when I acquired it "85 F150 w//1 1/16" 10 spline input it is aluminum case, all setup to bolt in model a pedal shaft emergency brake bracket" etc.

I'm not sure the intent of this post? If you want to sell it, pictures will help.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by bruceincam

I'm not sure the intent of this post? If you want to sell it, pictures will help.

As usually is the case, we have more than one discussion going on in the same thread. Gets confusing at times...

[a4me]

Originally Posted by Dave in MN

The T-5 is very easy to use and shift but getting the original brakes to work with it was difficult as the centerline of the driveshaft U- Joint and the brake cross shaft are no longer in the same location. I fought the issue for thousands of miles and while doing so had marginal brakes. I finally switched to hydraulic brakes to eliminate the problem.

Good Day!

Dave, can you please elaborate what sort of issues you experienced?

[a4me]

Originally Posted by gary678*

Dave's post #11 mentions a less than ideal rear brake function with the T5 because of notching the cross member; this is correct. This Fall I helped a friend install a custom made U shaped adapter ($325) for the rear brake rods that enabled the rear brakes to fully function; his brakes now are excellent and the high cost of hydraulic brakes was avoided. Gary D.

Gary, can you please explain more?
Who made the bracket?
How does it work?

[31a]

Not sure of the availability of the Mitchell OD but with a buddy and about 7or so hours you can be done

[gary678*]

To a4me: The U shaped adapter came from Eddie Pruette, Valley Machine Shop, 7317 Norris Road, Bakersfield, CA 93308 (661) 589-9529. He knows his stuff and custom makes many Model A parts and adaptations... good resource! Does your "how does it work"? question relate to the bracket or the transmission? The transmission is a World Class T-5 from either an 88-92 Firebird/Camaro or a 93 S-10 V6 (based on transmission ID codes). It shifts beautifully in all gears (smooth as silk), and I can easily downshift into first gear at 15 MPH (I don't make a habit of that). Very accurate MPG checks on trips over 100 miles show MPG consistently between 20.5 and 22 MPG (3.78 rear and Snyder 6.1 head). I only use 5th gear at speeds over 45 MPH on open roads and never exceed 55 MPH. I prefer the T-5 over the Mitchell simply because I only want one shifter in the cabin, not two. I'm 78 years old and have driven many manual transmissions in cars, trucks, and farm tractors; the T-5 is the best I have ever driven. I must add that I have spoken with many "A" owners and the T-5, Ford F-150, and Mitchell transmissions are all excellent performers; you will be very happy with whatever you choose. Good luck! Gary D.

[a4me]

Thank you for the explanation Gary.
.I was asking how the adaptor works but I see it straight out replaces the original brake rod.