copper head gasket Q...

[hardtimes]

Anyone use a solid copper head gasket on your flathead ?
Does such gasket HAVE to be annealed ?
Any reason why such gasket should not be used, in your experience/opinion ?

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Any reason why such gasket should not be used, in your experience/opinion?

Aluminum Heads....

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by petehoovie

Aluminum Heads....

Ok, I can see your point of view regarding aluminum head, but not sure why not ?

[fourfords]

Electrolysis

[Bored&Stroked]

This is nothing new - we've been doing stuff like this in racing for quite some time. Yes - the copper needs to be dead-soft and annealed. Also one needs to think about CNC O-ringing the heads and the block (stainless wire on one side - sticking out about .009 or so and a 'receiver groove' in the block). You need the receiver groove (which surrounds the whole combustion chamber) such that the o-ring in the head has someplace to push the copper into. Without the o-ring, you may have serious issues having enough clamping force to actually seal the chambers.

Water - another issue - hard to seal the water jackets. What some folks do (like FlatOut gaskets) is spray the copper with a rubberized compound on both sides - to help seal the water. We use spray on Hylomar on both sides of the copper - as it never really dries and helps seal the water. Note: In order to product the o-ring grooves, you need a CNC machine and some really fine .0625 carbide milling bits - and you better get them in the right places! LOL

[hardtimes]

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Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

This is nothing new - we've been doing stuff like this in racing for quite some time. Yes - the copper needs to be dead-soft and annealed. Also one needs to think about CNC O-ringing the heads and the block (stainless wire on one side - sticking out about .009 or so and a 'receiver groove' in the block). You need the receiver groove (which surrounds the whole combustion chamber) such that the o-ring in the head has someplace to push the copper into. Without the o-ring, you may have serious issues having enough clamping force to actually seal the chambers.

Water - another issue - hard to seal the water jackets. What some folks do (like FlatOut gaskets) is spray the copper with a rubberized compound on both sides - to help seal the water. We use spray on Hylomar on both sides of the copper - as it never really dries and helps seal the water. Note: In order to product the o-ring grooves, you need a CNC machine and some really fine .0625 carbide milling bits - and you better get them in the right places! LOL

THANKS much, great helpful info ! Questions
Did you anneal solid gaskets...each time removed/reused ?
What CR were you running with the solid gaskets / o-rings?
Would the o-ring grooves be necessary with say..low CR ?
Old timers used grease (before hylomar/sealants) for water control (?), you ever use this ?

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by fourfords

Electrolysis

Yeah, that's a given with dissimilar metal useage, eh . I guess if concerned with this aspect of cu use, a sacrificial anode would be in order ?

Myself, I use alum heads with copper (sandwich type) gaskets and cast iron blk. Also use composite head gaskets. However, experimenting and going to see if solid copper head gasket use is practical for street usage.

[flatheadmurre]

Just curious why you want a solid gasket...are you blowing them due to high boost ??
Going multi layer or solid takes a perfectly flat machined block and head to work for a start.

[Bored&Stroked]

We use solid copper on our Flathead Cadillac Bonneville engine for a couple reasons;
1) Nobody makes a good gasket set
2) At 21 lbs of boost - head gasket sealing is our single biggest challenge. Without the o-rings, there is no chance that we'd be able to seal the decks.
3) I prefer to only use them once - as the nice rubberized coatings that FlatOut puts on them really works best for a single usage.
4) We have re-annealed them after usage and tried a lot of Hylomar on them - not sure if that works or not (as we had other issues and had to pull the heads . . . so we never went down the track with them done this way).

Flathead Fords: I just put a set of the Cometic MLS head gaskets on my 42 Merc engine (high horsepower street build). As noted, I had the decks very slightly resurfaced (to a very smooth finish) - and put a new set of Navarro heads on them (also, very smooth finish). The MLS gaskets are expensive (about $150 a side), but I wanted to try them for shits and giggles. So far, no issues. I believe they might be a good solution for a higher horsepower blown situation (which is why I'm trying them). Also, you can get them in a variety of different thicknesses. I went with .050 - as I had tuned my piston to head clearances to use that exact gasket thickness. My thoughts were - if the MLS gaskets don't work out, then I can go back to the good ole' copper sandwich ones I used to run.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

We use solid copper on our Flathead Cadillac Bonneville engine for a couple reasons;
1) Nobody makes a good gasket set
2) At 21 lbs of boost - head gasket sealing is our single biggest challenge. Without the o-rings, there is no chance that we'd be able to seal the decks.
3) I prefer to only use them once - as the nice rubberized coatings that FlatOut puts on them really works best for a single usage.
4) We have re-annealed them after usage and tried a lot of Hylomar on them - not sure if that works or not (as we had other issues and had to pull the heads . . . so we never went down the track with them done this way).

Flathead Fords: I just put a set of the Cometic MLS head gaskets on my 42 Merc engine (high horsepower street build). As noted, I had the decks very slightly resurfaced (to a very smooth finish) - and put a new set of Navarro heads on them (also, very smooth finish). The MLS gaskets are expensive (about $150 a side), but I wanted to try them for shits and giggles. So far, no issues. I believe they might be a good solution for a higher horsepower blown situation (which is why I'm trying them). Also, you can get them in a variety of different thicknesses. I went with .050 - as I had tuned my piston to head clearances to use that exact gasket thickness. My thoughts were - if the MLS gaskets don't work out, then I can go back to the good ole' copper sandwich ones I used to run.

Great info/help ! Thanks much for sharing !
I'm going to check out/ try out some of your advice. The Flatout Gasket tip looks real promising and I've planned to talk with them.

As I started by saying, I'm just experimenting, kinda like you are. It keeps my last few brain cells active. Besides, I figure that here, guys like you laugh with my 'experimenting', not at it ! Your race experience/results is valuable. Some of the best of what I've learned are from info from guys like you. Thanks again!