powerhouse generator question

[steamgas]

i just discovered something. i spread out the field coils in a flat line and applied 6 volts to the coils. then took my compass and checked the polarity on each coli and all checked north. here comes the mystery if the first test wasn't strange enough. i UN-soldered the second coil from the left one and re-soldered it 180 degrees and and checked the polarity to see if it reads south this time and to my surprise it still read north even after flipping it 180 degrees. what goes here?

[TomInCologne]

Originally Posted by steamgas

i just discovered something. i spread out the field coils in a flat line and applied 6 volts to the coils. then took my compass and checked the polarity on each coli and all checked north. here comes the mystery if the first test wasn't strange enough. i UN-soldered the second coil from the left one and re-soldered it 180 degrees and and checked the polarity to see if it reads south this time and to my surprise it still read north even after flipping it 180 degrees. what goes here?

It's the direction of the current that decides where North and South is. You can rotate the coil 180°, but the direction of current stays the same...

[rotorwrench]

There is no connection between field and the armature other than the 3rd brush and a ground connection. The magnetic field is strengthened by the flow off the commutator depending on how that 3rd brush is adjusted. Closer to the ground brush reduces flow and farther away toward the power brush increases the flow. The stronger the magnetic field, the more induction takes place into the armature coil. Since you fabricated your own brush support ring, just make certain that the power and ground brushes make a good square contact patch with the commutator segments at the same time so that the power can be drawn off of the armature and on to the cut out terminal. From what I've seen in your photos is that it appears to be correct in the way the field coils were installed and the fabrication of the brush support assembly was done. I can't say about hardware substitutions since they may be OK as long as they are conductive and they hold it together well. The brushes and springs need to have good tension and fit on the commutator.

About all I can say from here on is that if it won't generate power then something still isn't right with it. What that something is will have to be worked out by testing in all ways possible until the problem is identified and corrected. Skip a test and your skipping a possible problem.

I was a bit concerned about the coils. I can't help with testing so it's all up to the person testing. The way the wire is wound around the pole is what makes it's polar direction. Clockwise wound will be opposite to the counterclockwise wound. This is where the compass is needed. According to Tom, it should be as I stated in my previous post on the subject. Compass readings should be taken from the inside of the case with the coils in place and polarization done. Measure the residual magnetism. That should tell the story.

[steamgas]

guy's i think i am on to something.thanks to all the help here i made up a test of an old set of field windings i had and my idea i think will work. give me time to get all the work done. i found a flaw in my winding data that none of my pictures could show. it was all taped up and out of sight but you guy's made me think deeper for the problem then what was lying on the surface. if this works i will put here on the ford barn all the information and the error i made so someone else that wants to do all the overhaul on the powerhouse generator can look back and discover what i did wrong. give me a few day's to do all this work.

tex

[steamgas]

SUCCESS:all of your work has paid off. what the problem was first was my lack of understanding of the powerhouse field winding. when i wound the coils i wound them all in a cw direction and then flipped every other coil giving them an (n,s,n,s,n,s, layout on my work table and labeled each one as such. here is where the problem was. the coils laying on the table were correct as far as cw and ccw were cornered and in my lack of understanding it thought i could daisy chain solder the leads together (WRONG) the flying leads on all of the cw(s) coils needed to be reversed in order for the dc current to flow in the right direction on all the coil's coil's. lesson is don't take anything for granted. thanks guy's for being patient with me and leading me in the right direction. here is a copy of the winding data i used. i hope this will help someone in the future if they would like to learn how to rewind the powerhouse field coils.
tex

[steamgas]

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sorry about it being upside down. that should be my next lesson,on how to operate a computer ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fullraceflathead]

That's good to know that will help many people in the future.

[rotorwrench]

That's where a person has to be careful to observe the way things were wound and connected during disassembly. Taking photos or drawing out diagrams are good ways of doing that. The coils are wrapped and then soldered when new but disassembly is different. If a person desolders and sets the coils aside, it's easy to forget how they were connected. Removing old insulation wrap and the rewinding them can further confuse things. With six coils, it's complicated. I can see why finding a diagram is difficult. If Ford did make diagrams then they are likely on prints at the Benson Ford Research Center. Tom had prints from there but he likely lost them in the fire at his home before he passed.

[rotorwrench]

I wanted to clarify something that is important about the way folks observe these coils when referring to them as North, South, CCW. and CW wound. Tom always viewed the coil at the side that faces the armature or in other words from the inside facing out. I noted that the diagram in the link on post #45 is correct except in the legend part where the CW is listed as North and CCW as South.

If the legend is corrected to match the diagram then all will be as Tom Wesenberg indicated in his posts. I don't know if this will eliminate any confusion but it might help in that respect.

[steamgas]

Good morning men.sorry about the typing error, sure am glad there are people here on the ford barn that are smarter then i am. If you see something else let me know, i have made the correction.

[katy]

FWIW, the word is commutator, not commentator.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commut...0the%20machine.

Also, thanks for the diagram.