The Ford Barn

Barry in St.Paul · 06-15-2023, 10:56 PM

hi,
I have a Tom Wesenberg (oh how I miss my friend!) EVR on my generator, and have put up with the "all or nothing" charging while using it with a diode-type cutout. Finally learned that his EVR needs the original style cutout to work properly, OR a wire needs to be cut on the EVR. I'm trying the first approach, have my original cutout, checked and adjusted the point gap, air gap, and confirmed it had continuity with points closed. Installed it on my generator, started her up, and.... no charge. Checked generator with a wire bypassing the cutout and full <20 amps, so generator is OK. Cutout points are closed as I rev the engine higher, as they should. But no output from the generator. I don't understand how this is possible, since there is continuity between armature post and battery/wiring post on cutout when I close the points. Any ideas? I'm bamboozled. THanks!
Barry in Minnesota

PS: secondary question: initial trials, the points STAYED closed after I turned off the car. I manually pulled them open and then they stayed open until I started car again. And then stayed closed again. Later, they opened up as I was about to call it quits. Was almost like the pole magnet was still energized, even though car was not running. Can't figure that out either. Fresh shiny points, so not sticking....

PSPS: have not posted for a LONG time, the 'A is up at dad's farm while I work on my Studebaker; the little girl in my avatar graduated from high school this weekend :-) How time flies!!

alexiskai · 06-15-2023, 11:07 PM

FordBarn user ndnchf has published a nice video tutorial on the testing and adjustment of original cutouts. You might find an answer in there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnuukBeJ6Zs&t=864s

ndnchf · 06-16-2023, 07:15 AM

It sounds like the cutout may have an internal short, grounding the generator output. I have some refurbished cutouts available if it would be any help.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...hlight=cutouts

Barry in St.Paul · 06-16-2023, 09:22 AM

Thanks. Watching the You-Tube video, the last "by the way" moment COULD be key; I simply relied on the screws holding the cutout in place for ground (just like a starter..). Long shot, but will try confirming that is thoroughly grounded. Heading up to the farm tomorrow.

katy · 06-16-2023, 10:08 AM

Quote:

have my original cutout, checked and adjusted the point gap, air gap, and confirmed it had continuity with points closed.

Did you check at what voltage the cutout closes, IIRC it should close at ~6.4 volts.

rotorwrench · 06-16-2023, 11:05 AM

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As Katy mentioned, the closing voltage has to exceed the normal battery voltage or the breaker set won't open as it should.

There may be something going on with the EVR too. They aren't as bullet proof as we'd like them to be. It will only show a charge until the battery is back to peak current draw. Check battery voltage while it's running. If it's over 7-volts then the EVR is likely working but just putting out readable amperage. If it's not working then it should show a discharge.

nkaminar · 06-16-2023, 12:11 PM

The cutout has two coils to close the points. One operates on voltage and pulls the points closed when the generator output rises to about 6.4 volts. The other operates on current and keeps the point closed once the generator is pushing out current. The voltage will decrease once the points close so the current coil keeps the points closed. The voltage and current coils are wound concentrically so it looks like there is just one coil. The current coil will reverse when the engine is stopped which will open the points.

This all assumes that the cutout is operating correctly and that the rest of the wiring is OK.

Badpuppy · 06-16-2023, 03:48 PM

Look for an open between the contacts and the battery connection. Explains no forward current to the battery and no reverse current when the gen is shut off. Apparently residual magnetism is holding the contacts closed until it eventually decays.

Badpuppy · 06-17-2023, 01:03 PM

http://modelabasics.com/Cutout.htm

My guess is bad solder of the outer coil at either stationary point or battery contact.

Barry in St.Paul · 07-22-2023, 09:34 PM

UPDATE; finally decided to tear apart my original cutout, and found that the inner (voltage circuit?) wire was cleanly broken off just at the bottom of the coil assembly, leaving nothing for me to resolver, so junk now. (I still can’t understand how with this defect, the points closed, and with closed points, there was no charging from the generator..). I’m going to take my EVR our and “snip” that little wire and use my current diode cut out, and be done with it. Thanks for the input everyone!

06-15-2023, 10:56 PM	#1
Barry in St.Paul Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 118	Original Cutout won't pass current hi, I have a Tom Wesenberg (oh how I miss my friend!) EVR on my generator, and have put up with the "all or nothing" charging while using it with a diode-type cutout. Finally learned that his EVR needs the original style cutout to work properly, OR a wire needs to be cut on the EVR. I'm trying the first approach, have my original cutout, checked and adjusted the point gap, air gap, and confirmed it had continuity with points closed. Installed it on my generator, started her up, and.... no charge. Checked generator with a wire bypassing the cutout and full <20 amps, so generator is OK. Cutout points are closed as I rev the engine higher, as they should. But no output from the generator. I don't understand how this is possible, since there is continuity between armature post and battery/wiring post on cutout when I close the points. Any ideas? I'm bamboozled. THanks! Barry in Minnesota PS: secondary question: initial trials, the points STAYED closed after I turned off the car. I manually pulled them open and then they stayed open until I started car again. And then stayed closed again. Later, they opened up as I was about to call it quits. Was almost like the pole magnet was still energized, even though car was not running. Can't figure that out either. Fresh shiny points, so not sticking.... PSPS: have not posted for a LONG time, the 'A is up at dad's farm while I work on my Studebaker; the little girl in my avatar graduated from high school this weekend :-) How time flies!!

06-15-2023, 11:07 PM	#2
alexiskai Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Mebane NC Posts: 2,375	Re: Original Cutout won't pass current FordBarn user ndnchf has published a nice video tutorial on the testing and adjustment of original cutouts. You might find an answer in there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnuukBeJ6Zs&t=864s

06-16-2023, 07:15 AM	#3
ndnchf Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia Posts: 778	Re: Original Cutout won't pass current It sounds like the cutout may have an internal short, grounding the generator output. I have some refurbished cutouts available if it would be any help. https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...hlight=cutouts

06-16-2023, 09:22 AM	#4
Barry in St.Paul Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 118	Re: Original Cutout won't pass current Thanks. Watching the You-Tube video, the last "by the way" moment COULD be key; I simply relied on the screws holding the cutout in place for ground (just like a starter..). Long shot, but will try confirming that is thoroughly grounded. Heading up to the farm tomorrow.

06-16-2023, 11:05 AM	#6
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,462	Re: Original Cutout won't pass current Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) As Katy mentioned, the closing voltage has to exceed the normal battery voltage or the breaker set won't open as it should. There may be something going on with the EVR too. They aren't as bullet proof as we'd like them to be. It will only show a charge until the battery is back to peak current draw. Check battery voltage while it's running. If it's over 7-volts then the EVR is likely working but just putting out readable amperage. If it's not working then it should show a discharge.

06-16-2023, 03:48 PM	#8
Badpuppy Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Guthrie, OK Posts: 1,150	Re: Original Cutout won't pass current Look for an open between the contacts and the battery connection. Explains no forward current to the battery and no reverse current when the gen is shut off. Apparently residual magnetism is holding the contacts closed until it eventually decays.

06-17-2023, 01:03 PM	#9
Badpuppy Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Guthrie, OK Posts: 1,150	Re: Original Cutout won't pass current http://modelabasics.com/Cutout.htm My guess is bad solder of the outer coil at either stationary point or battery contact.

07-22-2023, 09:34 PM	#10
Barry in St.Paul Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 118	Re: Original Cutout won't pass current UPDATE; finally decided to tear apart my original cutout, and found that the inner (voltage circuit?) wire was cleanly broken off just at the bottom of the coil assembly, leaving nothing for me to resolver, so junk now. (I still can’t understand how with this defect, the points closed, and with closed points, there was no charging from the generator..). I’m going to take my EVR our and “snip” that little wire and use my current diode cut out, and be done with it. Thanks for the input everyone!