The Ford Barn

Ordsgt · 03-06-2022, 11:41 AM

Putting my 30 Tudor engine back together after replacing the timing gears I have run into a problem. I have inserted the half seal into the timing gear cover and drove the seal into the groove using the side of a large socket close to diameter of the crank pulley seal area. I am unable to get the cover to bolt on. putting a bolt in all the way to the side (generator side) I cn not get the cover to go on enough to start the other bolts. It lacks about 1/16 inch from coming up on the other side and being flush with the block oil pan surface. Seal came from a gasket purchased from major vendor. I had dropped the pan to inspect and bought a gasket kit. The engine is out of the car

PC/SR · 03-06-2022, 11:56 AM

I insert a 6" tapered punch through the open end bolt holes and pry down until any other can get started. I use the other side, but am sure it makes no difference.

chrs1961815 · 03-06-2022, 11:57 AM

It is always tough. Drift pins are your friend. You will get it on.

Ordsgt · 03-06-2022, 02:18 PM

OK got in on and the seal that I had cut to fit has pulled back about 1/8 inch. Pulled cover off and installed new seal (untrimmed) and got the cover to bolt on. Now will trim the seal. My understanding is trim it 1/16 inch higher that the block. I will take the cover off and use a razor to cut the seam. I plan on putting a thin piece of gasket on the cover half that is part of the oil pan gasket surface to act as a cutting guide. Any suggestions would be appreciated

Patrick L. · 03-06-2022, 03:17 PM

I haven't cut/shortened one. I soak them for a couple days in oil and drive them in fully with a large socket or hammer handle, etc. The ends should sit proud 1/16-1/8" and I put a dab [ technical term] of permatex on the ends.

katy · 03-07-2022, 10:42 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

I soak them for a couple days in oil

Good point, that's a "must remember to do".

PC/SR · 03-07-2022, 11:18 AM

Agree with #5.Do not cut it.

nkaminar · 03-07-2022, 11:31 AM

Agree with #5, don't cut it. For future reference, you can use a couple of longer bolts to draw the cover down and then take them out when you get the front bolts on. I have always used the tapered bar in the hole.

Patrick L. · 03-07-2022, 12:34 PM

Yep, phillips head drivers, lady slippers, anything tapered/pointy are good things to have at the ready.

There are times to force things and times when not to. Knowing when to do either makes the difference. [ smiley face ]

gwillford · 09-28-2023, 12:33 PM

Question about an aftermarket front neoprene crank seal. The one I am talking about is a drop in for the rope seal. My A engine was rebuilt not too many miles ago with this seal for the previous owner. The engine leaked. I noticed the neoprene seal when replacing the pan gasket and decided to leave it in. Did not know the leak was from there at the time. It really leaks now... So, going to do the pan gasket over again and address the front seal. So the question is, replace the neoprene seal with new or go back to the rope seal. Not wanting to do this a third time. Thanks for the help! George

Banditorama · 09-28-2023, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

There are times to force things and times when not to. Knowing when to do either makes the difference. [ smiley face ]

And you're going to bust a lot of knuckles, say a lot of swear words, and about cry many times in order to learn that difference

1crosscut · 09-28-2023, 09:21 PM

Maybe the old style of rope gaskets soaked up oil but I don't think the ones sold / used now will absorb much if any oil. I never soak mine but put a thin smear of grease on the surface of the seals where they will come in contact with the crank shaft. After that the engine oil will take over the lubrication of the rope seals.

CWPASADENA · 09-28-2023, 10:24 PM

One thing you have to do no matter which seal you use is to be sure the surface on the pulley where the seal rides is absolutely round and smooth. I polish this surface on the new pullies I use when building an engine. I have had good luck with the new one-piece seals but they are a little tricky to get them installed correctly.

My experience,

Chris W.

Fullraceflathead · 09-29-2023, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

Yep, phillips head drivers, lady slippers, anything tapered/pointy are good things to have at the ready.

There are times to force things and times when not to. Knowing when to do either makes the difference. [ smiley face ]

What are lady slippers???

nkaminar · 09-29-2023, 07:09 AM

I have much better luck with the original style rope type seals than the modern rubber lip seals. For one thing, the pan and block are not formed to mate with the modern seals and require a bunch of silicone sealant. The rope seals available today are Teflon impregnated that helps with durability.

katy · 09-29-2023, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fullraceflathead

What are lady slippers???

AKA Rolling Head Pry Bar

03-06-2022, 11:41 AM	#1
Ordsgt Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Yorktown Virginia Posts: 182	Front Crankshaft seal Putting my 30 Tudor engine back together after replacing the timing gears I have run into a problem. I have inserted the half seal into the timing gear cover and drove the seal into the groove using the side of a large socket close to diameter of the crank pulley seal area. I am unable to get the cover to bolt on. putting a bolt in all the way to the side (generator side) I cn not get the cover to go on enough to start the other bolts. It lacks about 1/16 inch from coming up on the other side and being flush with the block oil pan surface. Seal came from a gasket purchased from major vendor. I had dropped the pan to inspect and bought a gasket kit. The engine is out of the car

03-06-2022, 11:56 AM	#2
PC/SR Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Santa Rosa, CA Posts: 1,279	Re: Front Crankshaft seal I insert a 6" tapered punch through the open end bolt holes and pry down until any other can get started. I use the other side, but am sure it makes no difference.

03-06-2022, 11:57 AM	#3
chrs1961815 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Spring Grove, Illinois Posts: 1,371	Re: Front Crankshaft seal It is always tough. Drift pins are your friend. You will get it on. __________________ "The more things change, the more they stay the same."

03-06-2022, 02:18 PM	#4
Ordsgt Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Yorktown Virginia Posts: 182	Re: Front Crankshaft seal OK got in on and the seal that I had cut to fit has pulled back about 1/8 inch. Pulled cover off and installed new seal (untrimmed) and got the cover to bolt on. Now will trim the seal. My understanding is trim it 1/16 inch higher that the block. I will take the cover off and use a razor to cut the seam. I plan on putting a thin piece of gasket on the cover half that is part of the oil pan gasket surface to act as a cutting guide. Any suggestions would be appreciated

03-07-2022, 11:18 AM	#7
PC/SR Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Santa Rosa, CA Posts: 1,279	Re: Front Crankshaft seal Agree with #5.Do not cut it.

03-06-2022, 03:17 PM	#5
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Front Crankshaft seal I haven't cut/shortened one. I soak them for a couple days in oil and drive them in fully with a large socket or hammer handle, etc. The ends should sit proud 1/16-1/8" and I put a dab [ technical term] of permatex on the ends.

03-07-2022, 11:31 AM	#8
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,901	Re: Front Crankshaft seal Agree with #5, don't cut it. For future reference, you can use a couple of longer bolts to draw the cover down and then take them out when you get the front bolts on. I have always used the tapered bar in the hole. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

03-07-2022, 12:34 PM	#9
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Front Crankshaft seal Yep, phillips head drivers, lady slippers, anything tapered/pointy are good things to have at the ready. There are times to force things and times when not to. Knowing when to do either makes the difference. [ smiley face ]

09-28-2023, 12:33 PM	#10
gwillford Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2022 Posts: 20	Re: Front Crankshaft seal Question about an aftermarket front neoprene crank seal. The one I am talking about is a drop in for the rope seal. My A engine was rebuilt not too many miles ago with this seal for the previous owner. The engine leaked. I noticed the neoprene seal when replacing the pan gasket and decided to leave it in. Did not know the leak was from there at the time. It really leaks now... So, going to do the pan gasket over again and address the front seal. So the question is, replace the neoprene seal with new or go back to the rope seal. Not wanting to do this a third time. Thanks for the help! George

09-28-2023, 09:21 PM	#12
1crosscut Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Lincoln, Nebraska Posts: 1,910	Re: Front Crankshaft seal Maybe the old style of rope gaskets soaked up oil but I don't think the ones sold / used now will absorb much if any oil. I never soak mine but put a thin smear of grease on the surface of the seals where they will come in contact with the crank shaft. After that the engine oil will take over the lubrication of the rope seals. __________________ Dave / Lincoln Nebraska

09-28-2023, 10:24 PM	#13
CWPASADENA Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: PASADENA, CA Posts: 1,885	Re: Front Crankshaft seal One thing you have to do no matter which seal you use is to be sure the surface on the pulley where the seal rides is absolutely round and smooth. I polish this surface on the new pullies I use when building an engine. I have had good luck with the new one-piece seals but they are a little tricky to get them installed correctly. My experience, Chris W.

09-29-2023, 07:09 AM	#15
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,901	Re: Front Crankshaft seal I have much better luck with the original style rope type seals than the modern rubber lip seals. For one thing, the pan and block are not formed to mate with the modern seals and require a bunch of silicone sealant. The rope seals available today are Teflon impregnated that helps with durability. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.