rleated to NOS vs NORS thread: "restored"

[Kube]

Id enjoyed the thread started earlier today in regard to the true definition of NOS vs. NORS parts. I am hoping a number of folks will pay attention to Dave and learn from his very accurate response.
Now, along those lines...
"RESTORED" is one word that is nearly always misused.

A fellow can't describe a car as "RESTORED" and then go on to explain all the "upgrades" that he installed as well as the candy apple red paint, etc.

Restore: to repair or renovate (a building, work of art, vehicle, etc.) so as to return it to its original condition.

[FortyNiner]

Amen. Tell this to the auction house folks - who should know better.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by FortyNiner

Amen. Tell this to the auction house folks - who should know better.

Yeah, but it doesn't serve their purposes.

[RalphM]

Kinda like the word “Vintage”, which is thrown around a lot. I’ve seen new made stuff for sale advertised as vintage. And they are not wrong because it could be 2017 Vintage!
See Webster’s; “a period origin or manufacture”

[Kurt in NJ]

I like to look down inside doors when the windows are down to see if the "total restoration " was just a external paint restoration--- only saw one car at Hershey that the inside of the door was restored--- I know it is expensive, I have over 8 hours in a wiper motor and it worked before I started

Proper restoration to original specs would eliminate many "needed" modifications

[Kube]

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Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

I like to look down inside doors when the windows are down to see if the "total restoration " was just a external paint restoration--- only saw one car at Hershey that the inside of the door was restored--- I know it is expensive, I have over 8 hours in a wiper motor and it worked before I started

Proper restoration to original specs would eliminate many "needed" modifications

You and I are on the same page. There are in reality few true total restorations. Guys that know my work, know that places that will never be seen once the car is assembled are as nice as places that will be seen.
With me, it's a matter of pride.

[DavidG]

A close second in the misnomer race is "barn find".

[petehoovie]

I like the "patina" of an "unrestored" "original" car....

[corvette8n]

Another term is how "Henry made it" if Henry Ford spent that much time on the assembly line, I sure Ford wouldn't have produced over twelve million flathead's.

When I was looking to buy my '41 I looked at a lot of "restored" cars with Chebby motors and automatics in them. To some sellers modifying somehow means restored.

[DavidG]

Does anyone know how what should be known as a 'body-off restoration' became the term 'frame-off restoration'? Physically, the latter makes no sense whatsoever. Maybe it came from the folks who brought us the sail-less mast of the steering column.

[Jack E/NJ]

I'll guess body off means right side up. Frame off, upside down. Did I guess right? 8^) Jack E/NJ

[flatford8]

Originally Posted by DavidG

A close second in the misnomer race is "barn find".

“Barn find” pi$$es me off more than “restored to original” .
I’m dropping the frame out from under the body on my ‘51 for paint and floor patches but I still won’t call it “restored”......Mark

[Jack E/NJ]

Then how about calling it frame-drop refreshed? I'll bet that would sound impressive to some folks. Jack E/NJ

[Ken/Alabama]

In my eyes the term "restored" means it's just like it rolled out of the Rouge plant. There are damn few "restored " Fords out there. I know there are lots of them that I call redone or refurbished , me included ,that have these cars and enjoy them but when the term " restored " is used it means a whole nother ball game for me.

[Kurt in NJ]

On my model A i lifted the body off the frame ---body off restoration,
on my 36 the frame was dropped out from under the body---frame off restoration

[flatford8]

Originally Posted by Ken/Alabama

In my eyes the term "restored" means it's just like it rolled out of the Rouge plant. There are damn few "restored " Fords out there. I know there are lots of them that I call redone or refurbished , me included ,that have these cars and enjoy them but when the term " restored " is used it means a whole nother ball game for me.

I’m going with “ resurrected “......Mark

[skidmarks]

Fixed up junk fits a lot of stuff, anymore i just like something that's roadworthy and i dont have to worry about it. Both of these fits most cars i see that are called restored.

I remember seeing a car that was suppose to to have nice solid floors. After a closer look most of the the floor was cut out.
The seller was a shister and his patsy stuck up for him by saying YOU HAVE TO READ BETWEEN THE LINES when i asked about the nice solid floors.

[Karl Wescott]

"Tongue in cheek" would a 1932 Roadster with Brookville (or Wescott) body, new TCI et al chassis, and a "crate" motor and transmission be considered "ALL ORIGINAL"?

[BoxCar Tom]

What if a person started out with a single part (a luggage rack) and spent 30 years collecting only parts (from 23 states and lost track) that are to the best of his knowledge correct for a 65 year old 3 month production window, then rebuilt and refinished every part, then assembled a complete numbers matching finished car from those parts, (luggage rack not used) what would you call the end product. A recreation or a pleasant preoccupation?

[DavidG]

Both those and also quite possibly a restoration depending on how well all of the parts were put together. In other words, once the parts are off the shelves and put together, how is the result not a whole vehicle?

[Kube]

Originally Posted by BoxCar Tom

What if a person started out with a single part (a luggage rack) and spent 30 years collecting only parts (from 23 states and lost track) that are to the best of his knowledge correct for a 65 year old 3 month production window, then rebuilt and refinished every part, then assembled a complete numbers matching finished car from those parts, (luggage rack not used) what would you call the end product. A recreation or a pleasant preoccupation?

Does this official definition help?

Restore: to repair or renovate (a building, work of art, vehicle, etc.) so as to return it to its original condition.

[AnthonyG]

The Rotisserie Refreshed on an auto twirler is interesting. I've seen sellers call it Rotisserie Restored that's possible for everything except what was between the chassis & floors.

[itslow]

Originally Posted by Ken/Alabama

In my eyes the term "restored" means it's just like it rolled out of the Rouge plant. There are damn few "restored " Fords out there. I know there are lots of them that I call redone or refurbished , me included ,that have these cars and enjoy them but when the term " restored " is used it means a whole nother ball game for me.

Agreed. Very, very few are restored to match how they would have rolled out of the factories.

Many are over-restored. Many are under-restored.

[itslow]

Originally Posted by DavidG

Does anyone know how what should be known as a 'body-off restoration' became the term 'frame-off restoration'?

What if the car is down-under? "Off-Frame" is a bit more awkward to say.

[mike in tucson]

I am in awe of those who "restore" something like a 1910 Rolls when they start with maybe a small piece of the grille shell and fabricate everything else.

[B-O-B]

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The one that gets me is RARE. Overused & abused.
The guy that sold me the 34 roadster said he restored the chassis wow that was funny as it was just painted over the dirt and grease. Shackles & brake shoes were worn out but freshly painted.
They are original only once.

[DavidG]

But, "body-off" isn't (more awkward to say) and from that standpoint, slightly less awkward to say.

I have yet to see a restoration commence with turning the car upside down and removing the frame from the body in that position, hence my original question.

[rotorwrench]

Hucksters and sales people in general use every advantageous term in the book to sell stuff whether it is correct terminology or not. They sometimes make stuff up as they go too. A person has to laugh about it and be sceptical of anything that can't be easily verified. If folks were honest and followed a complete path to originality, the only description needed would be "restored to original condition". Unfortunately, we all know that you can't change a half wit into a whole wit.

[Hoop]

"Frame Off" was originally "Off-Frame" and makes more sense.

(By the way, I'm of the same mindset as Petehoovie. Preservation tops restoration.)

[woodiewagon46]

I have a question for David or Mike. I once read that NORS, New Old Replacement Stock, did not mean the stock was good. The article went on to say that, if a part didn't fit correctly on the assembly line or there was some other reason for it to be rejected, it was put into NORS status. Such as a dented fender or untapped hole. It went on to say that Ford wanted nothing thrown away or scrapped, so NORS it was. Any truth to the story?

[DavidG]

Hoop,

Yes, "off-frame" makes perfectly perfectly good sense.


woodiewagon46,

There's some truth to that in the case of NOS parts, but I've not encountered it with NORS parts from well known period suppliers such as Thompson Products, Toledo Valve, etc.

In the case of "genuine" Ford NOS parts, miss-builds are sometimes encountered, but then they are also sometimes encountered in the parts used to assemble the car such as missing holes in stampings or hood panels that are longer or shorter than they should be. Even if a NOS part requires some rework, that extra effort is usually worth when it comes to fit, finish, and function compared to the alternatives.

[va t]

I call my project a "pieced together restoration" having started with an original frame and collecting parts over a period of 50+ years. Is it 100% correct? It is close, due to the expertise of David Rehor and others who willingly share their knowledge. The help of others is appreciated and vital when you don''t know the answers.

[DavidG]

va t,

Sounds like a net project; have a photo or two to share?

David

[RalphM]

Originally Posted by itslow

What if the car is down-under? "Off-Frame" is a bit more awkward to say.

It’s easier “Down Under” because the car is upside down!

[deuce5wndw]

Originally Posted by skidmarks

Fixed up junk fits a lot of stuff, anymore i just like something that's roadworthy and i dont have to worry about it. Both of these fits most cars i see that are called restored.

I remember seeing a car that was suppose to to have nice solid floors. After a closer look most of the the floor was cut out.
The seller was a shister and his patsy stuck up for him by saying YOU HAVE TO READ BETWEEN THE LINES when i asked about the nice solid floors.

Reminds me of a car I saw at Charotte one time had rusty floors and on the windshield a big sign said Rust free! We never charge for rust!

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by DavidG

A close second in the misnomer race is "barn find".

And third for me is "Rare"

[Karl Wescott]

Originally Posted by rockfla

And third for me is "Rare"

Tongue in cheek again... "Rare" is the opposite of "Well Done"

[Byron Warwick]

Here are the before and after pictures of my, purchased in 1957 pickup. It now has lots of mods, but it is still flat and still reliable. The renewed picture is the day it came out of the garage in 2009.
What do I call the repairs I made? Refreshed?

[DavidG]

Extensive!

[Kube]

Originally Posted by rockfla

And third for me is "Rare"

I've actually written sellers on eBay that have advertised "rare this, rare that" and then within the description, admit they have no clue what it is for. I ask them how they know it is rare if they have no clue what it is or what it is for.
Because they only have one?

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Byron Warwick

Here are the before and after pictures of my, purchased in 1957 pickup. It now has lots of mods, but it is still flat and still reliable. The renewed picture is the day it came out of the garage in 2009.
What do I call the repairs I made? Refreshed?

Isn't that what is now referred to as....."It'll polish right out".....? DD

[NealinCA]

"Rebuilt" is also subject to interpretation.

[cas3]

i always say, rebuilt by who, and what did they do.

[tubman]

I'm beginning to think "Refurbished" means a spray bottle of "409" and a rag.

[V8COOPMAN]

Personally, I like the term "Earl Sheib Restoration"! That should cover a large portion of the BS being passed-off as anything like a true RESTORATION. DD

[va t]

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Here is my "Pieced together restoration" retirement project. It lacks a few correct pieces but has correct 32 v8. After owning original frame for over 50 years, found I had matching # transmission, all junk except for the case! Car is owner built to this point. Metal work is my "golf game". Feel fortunate to be working on one of my favorite automobiles. Vance

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by va t

Here is my "Pieced together restoration" retirement project. It lacks a few correct pieces but has correct 32 v8. After owning original frame for over 50 years, found I had matching # transmission, all junk except for the case! Car is owner built to this point. Metal work is my "golf game". Feel fortunate to be working on one of my favorite automobiles. Vance

va t....I really don't believe that YOU're gonna have to dodge too much flack on that one when using the term "restored"! That 3-window looks awfully nice from here!! DD

[Byron Warwick]

I remember being at that stage. It gets exciting to be that close. Looks like a spring debut; be sure to post the "ITS ALL DONE" pictures.
Cheers, Byron.