A189

[JoeWay]

Originally Posted by Steve Ciccalone

...Lars, I'm quite sure that tank is the correct one for the car. The earliest version of the tank has no vertical re-enforcement on either side of the coil....

Steve,

I really enjoy seeing information like this about the very early cars.

Just for clarification, did you mean to say "tank is NOT the correct one..." or am I mis-reading something?

Thanks.

Joe

[Steve Ciccalone]

Joe, the tanks with no vertical re-enforcement seem to have been phased out by the end of Nov. A616 got a first gen while A189 got the second gen which is original to the car. These oddities occurred. As an example, Ron Rude's A1276 preceeded my A1031 by about 55 engines on December 3, 1927. His engine ended up in a second generation frame with a solid front crossmember while A1031 went into a first gen frame with the three piece crossmember and the earliest brake system.

[Netclassics]

Hi again

The radiator is put aside here to be used at the 189 later on if you like.
The wood is in very good condition that we took away from the car. Was really not needed. If it was mine a prefer the original wood as it is not rotten at all.

As we did took the tank out of the car we found that it had the original thin packing or band betweeen the tank and firewall. I supposed the owner was to reusse it but it was replaced by a repro lining. I was sure that it was the original tank at the car even if some later on as it arrived to the use did not think so.

It is the same with the rear fenders. They really looked as the had been there since new ( if anyone can see that ) and they were not of the first type of rear fenders. Hope they not are chaged to an eralier type now.
Also this was a point that we got remarks on as it arrived to the US. I still think they were correct until someone show me pitrures of 189 from the factory or sales room.

Why was it pained green as it was i bad condition with molded splasch aprons to the body. That was done with some plastic padding. Who knows why. The paint was awful and absolutly not original. I think I have some pics at my old not updateed site http://www.netclassics.com

Taking off the tank all we carefully looked for finding the original paint.
Guess what we found ?
Green !!!
It was green on the backside of the tank..Belive it or not but I did see that.

You maybe have found other pits of paint but as the car was totally stipped from paint as it got repainted I sitll beleve it was green for beginning. I do not know. I just belive it was green even if new facts indicated otherwise. I can not prove anything , it is just what I think.

The firewall had a hole for the vawum wiper and the car had a tube like wacum viper at top of the wind screen frame. I think I still have it somwere. It is nor sandblasted an painted with first layer of paint.

What more to say ?...Sorry that the car did not stayed in sweden and that I did not was at the swedish owner more often.

It was really nice that day as wee lifted off the body and found that the frame had exellent 189 digits stamped in . All was correct.

It had closed bumbers in front and rear and that must have been there since start.

Im really interested in those eraly cars and I have used lots of time to know more about the special kind of cars as they are.

Also interesting to see that the more you learn about Model A you also understand that noone can tell what is 100% correct for each car.
I have had a Model A 1931 Pic Up just 200 numbers from an Tudor 1932 (-31) that had totally diffrent head lights. Bouth cars were original cars and well known since new. The Pic up had light very like the model B but the ame shape ans Model A 1930-31. The differens was that the lights had no focus screw. We suppose those lights were a carry over between 1931 model a and Model B and that they were made by Ford Germany.

Often model 1931 Ford A do not have the indented firewall. One can have the other do not have....Still the same year ....talk about interesting setting up judging standares over here....I think we dropp that.

We aslo have found more hand brake handle variations than there is shown in the Judging standards. Maybe the scandinavian Ford factory in Denmark had some extra variations of hand brake handles...what more can there be out there?

By studing and driving model A:s for more than 40 years I think that every year make me more and more open minded over how a original Model A can be built. Not just one way...

I will go out to the barn again and try to get the radiator an hood to fit to my Town Sedan 1931 or maybe it is 1930 ?. For the moment the hood feels like it is from another planet .....It miss fits in all possible way. Maybe I can make it shorter on one side by cutting off some metal and make it to fit ?
Well thats life...Whay shall everything be easy?
The sun is shining and and tomorrow is a new day......maybe it fits tomorrow

My best Regards from Sweden
Lars
www.netclassics.com

[Netclassics]

The tank is the correct one for this car... Sorry if I wrote something else by misstake. I still think the car never had been changed very much.
Hope it not is modified in the US to fit older thinking of how the 189 was supposed to be.

[Ron in Quincy]

Steve,

I believe its wonderful that you have tried to explain to the Barners how our very early 28's can differ in the assembly line construction depending on the release date of the engine to assembly.

The fact that engines were not used progressively must be difficult for people to understand how two A's with almost the same number can very so much in its assembly of parts.

Think of the poor Team Captains who are responsible for Fine Point Judging and not total fimilar with the very early vehicles and some of the unique parts and how these parts can vary from one vehicle to the next.

Ron

[Steve Ciccalone]

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Lars, the rear fenders have been changed to the first "beavertail" style my the previous owner who brought the car back from Sweden. This is the correct thing to do as the later style fenders were not available when the car was built. I have the original Swedish title for A189 dated March 7, 1928. I think this car must have been sent to Europe as a sample for display. It is amazing that it went from Detroit to Sweden in just a little over three months. The passage of the freighter it was sent on would have been over two weeks unless Henry had it sent on one of the fast passenger ships of the day (they carried some cargo).

The hood of the car has been replaced. The handles do not have the open rivets. The later style handles were also not available at the time of build.

However, it is most remarkable that the car survived in the manner it with probably many owners. Especially the totally original single eye/single eye brake system.

[Roadster62]

Steve, Does A189 share the same features as Dean's A495 or are there running changes between the two. I find the early stuff very interesting, thanks for sharing all the info. Bob

[Steve Ciccalone]

The short answer is that chassis/engine wise they are virtually the same as the engine release dates are only three days apart.

[peters180a/170b]

Steve , you are a lucky man to have 3 very low # "A"s... I for one is really not crazy about early "A's as i kid every year to Doc K. at Hershey about [Is this the space for LATE "T"s. ] .Some days i think he is going to land me on my head! Anyway i hear what Ron said about "very" so much in its assemble of parts.. look at my view too on a "MID" 1930 Ford.. Pop-out used only 3 to 4 months , stamped steel head light bar 3 to 4 months , all of 1930 used Die cast sediment bulb [which had a problem or they would not go back to iron type.]. I still have a problem with the wheels being matched on all 5. They might of left the factory that way??? maybe[you think Ford kept the count on parts in order] but who is to say they left the dealership that way..They were being painted at the dealership at that time.I still believe you could of had 2 different manufacture's of wheels on a car Both Kelsey-Hayes and Hamiltion.Here is one for ya..My car came with 6 wheels,,,the 6th wheel was added at the dealership ,,,do you think the dealership went and matched up the wheels ,,,Hell no. If the car came in with 5 Hamiltion and owner wanted a 6 wheel you think they looked for only Hamiltion??? This is a question i have too.Every wheel that came off my car did not have red paint inside the wheel[hub] Red outside and black inside and around the inner rim. So Did they paint the inner wheel [hub ] with the red paint or left it factory black on the spare too? So if one is to judge the spare on a deluxe fender weld car are we looking for red paint or black???I would say black based on how the other wheels were painted.hummmm

[Ron in Quincy]

There was a gentleman who lived in Rancho Cordova, CA. who retired from Ford Motor Co; he worked on the Rouge Assemble Plant Assemble Line during the start of production of the Model A in 1927; he said there was lots of pressure to get cars completed as Dealers were going broke because of no cars to sell; engineers were under pressure to find ways to increase production; he said it was not unusual for the engineers to pull a chassis off the assemble line to determine ways to speed up production, when complete they wood return the chassis and if there was not a body to install on the chassis, the chassis would be set aside and parts would be removed to complete other chassis, there would be no record of this kind of action. If this is fact, no wonder there is such a variation in some of the very early parts on chassis of simular engine numbers. This old gentleman was reluctant to say too much, thought it might effect his retirement from Ford Motor Co.

I would also suspect that the engineers responsible for the release documation were behind in there work; probable new parts were already in use on the Assemble Line by the time the release was issued ?

It never ceases to amaze me how we seem to learn new things each and every day about the very early A's.

One thing that remains constant is the wonderful people involved in our hobby and their willingness to help other Model A'ers.

Ron (A1276)

[peters180a/170b]

Well.. talk about old men working on Fords. I came across a guy with alot of Ford tools from Model 'A's [ like new] where i got my tools and bag from. Anyway when a Model "A' came in to the dealership they[ sometimes] removed the tools because some owners did not know of them. So tools were removed and if the owner did come back and ask they would hand over the tools as if they did not know what happened. FACT!. l.o.l.

[Steve Ciccalone]

Hey Pete, you did the easy car. Everybody knows everything about 180-A's and 400-A's lol. Ron, I toodled around today in A566, running great in 90 degree temps.

[peters180a/170b]

Hey Steve , started the 180A today and make sure everything runs good for next weeks "FUN" car show in PA. [running great in 90 degree's] for how long? Our friend Timothy is running on a tour with the 1907 out west and golf cart #8.. . SO what day are we meeting up and where at Hershey??MARC tent on ???? Or do you have a bike week???..Don't know if a chili cookout will be there again.Maybe We can meet before that happens.Or we will be in the scene of Blazing saddles around the camp fire..

[Steve Ciccalone]

Pete, I'm at RSA 36-39. Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday is good for me. Like to stop by Dick Schappy's spot and see his "help" from the Cadillac Lounge. Hope Tim has solved the radiator issue.

[peters180a/170b]

As far as i know we all lost our spots and Schappy's too. We had been together before the good old flood days in the BLUE field[Mid 70's] when they were landing planes across the road.. So now we are not all together [all 40 spots].I;ll tell you Hershey is getting really bad!!!!!!!! $5.00 for post war items another $5.00 for pre wars ,$5.00 toy items and so on ,above the cost of a flea market spot.