Shifting trouble in a 29'

[iamskee]

Hello everyone,

I recently acquired my A and have been doing a lot of work on it. Heres a quick recap on the car:
All major mechanicals (engine, trans, differential, etc.) were professional restored by previous owner less than 10 years ago.

It is apparent the car went through a frame off restoration, the body has been painted, new wood throughout, new interior, currently on 12v etc.

The previous owner parked the car midway through this project when they were unfortunately left it. It sat for at least a few years in florida and I doubt it was driven much, if at all..

I purchased the car which at the time had not run in years and began to assess everything and then started to bring some life back into it. So far I have:

-installed a new starter drive since the bendix spring broke after a month
-cleaned the fuel tank/lines, got it running (had to install new condenser and points)
-changed oil, flushed radiator, filled all the 600w spots, greased
-adjusted the (mechanical) brakes which are still not perfect so maybe I can seek advice from that later
-finished wiring, as the final stages of the restoration from the previous owner had not been completed

The motor runs great now, but I am now wanting to start driving it since much of the other work is nearly finished, and up until this point I have not driven it much at all. Heres what happens: I press the clutch pedal, and theres a 50/50 chance the clutch works and I will be able to shift into 1st or reverse right away. If I cant, I can feel the shifter vibrate as I try and put it in gear with my foot on the clutch but I hate trying to force it, but I had to once to get it back to the garage. Once it was in gear it was fine, but again I was not always able to shift to second. I have never tried shifting to 3rd.

I have both volumes of Les Andrews as well as many other books and have done countless hours of research to get to where I am with the car, but I couldn't seem to find an answer for this specific problem.

Any advice is appreciated. I am a pretty mechanical and hands on person. Can take pics/video if anything would be helpful.

Thank you in advance, Andrew

[CWPASADENA]

Are you sure the clutch is fully releasing?

This may be as simple as adjusting the clutch.

Les Andrews has a procedure to adjust the clutch.

That is what I would start with.

Chris W.

[1955cj5]

After or while you adjust the clutch you can open the access panel in the top of the clutch housing and with a flashlight you will be able to see if the clutch disc stops turning when you depress the pedal....

If it doesn't stop turning you may be able to adjust it more or it might be that the pilot bearing is dragging...

This is my old AA transmission but the idea is the same...

Be careful not to drop anything in there.....!

[Benson]

Sounds like maybe the clutch release arm is cracked and is flexing ... not releasing clutch completely.

This has been a common failure for over 55 years that I am aware of ...

[Art Newland]

Welcome to the Barn, are you aware that the Model A transmission is non-synchronized beast that takes some special techniques to shift properly?

[Jim/GA]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Andrew-
Welcome to the Barn! Welcome to the Model A Hobby!

Where are you located? Try to add that to your profile. you may have an experienced Model a person right up the road from you. you never know!

What kind of oil did you put in the transmission?

What would you guess is your idle RPM? This engine should be able to idle very slowly, once warmed up.

Once you step on the clutch, count to 3 before trying to put the transmission in gear.

I'm sure you will figure it out. Let us know what you find.

[Synchro909]

It may be that when the gearbox was attached to the motor, the pilot shaft didn't line up properly or the gearbox was allowed to drop, bending the clutch plate. If that is so, it will drag no matter how you play with the adjustment. Take the inspection cover off as suggested above and look at the clutch plate with the motor at an idle. Check to see that the plate doesn't appear to wobble back and forth between the flywheel and the pressure plate.
Also try selecting top gear first, then going straight to first. This gets the gears moving so they engage easier.

[Joe K]

I would go with the cracked/flexing clutch release shaft actuating arm for $24.95 plus shipping Alex.

Seems like a common failure now. I've heard of half a dozen since I've joined the Fordbarn community.

One source http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/clutch-shaft-arm

Joe K

[Big hammer]

Andrew Wecome to the barn!
Since it's a 50/50 grinding of gears, a nice slooow idle, 600w oil in the gear box, then check for mechanical's. 100 rpm to fast an idle will cause grinding of gears, if this doesn't help,you may be in for pulling the transmission and checking for a worn pilot bearing/bushing.
Wecome to the hobby! Enjoy!

[100IH]

Also. on the 1 to 2 shift, do it early and count to 3. All shifts should be done early without running up to higher RPM's. Thick 600 lube is a must.

[Dick M]

It will take two people to check for a cracked clutch release arm. You will probably not be able to see the crack in the clutch arm by just looking at it. Have someone depress the clutch pedal while you are looking at the clutch arm. You will see if it is cracked and spreading. I would check the arm first... It is an easy fix.

[daveymc29]

I had a very similar (I think) problem with my Coupe. I would shift it into 1st and drive off and shift into second and then third. All well and good on the flat. Give it ever so slight an incline and I got a lot of gear agains gear noise and it would reuse to move is 1st. @nd and third were okay. I greased the collar that carries the throughout bearing and it is a happy camper. Shifts like a dream and no gear noise. A friend on here told me to try that so I'm suggesting that you pull the access cover from the bell housing so you can see the throughout bearing and grease it, the carrier, before you do anything else.

[iamskee]

Wow thank you all for the replies! I will update my profile soon. I live in Tampa, Fl.

The engine idles seamlessly at very low RPM's, though I don't have an exact number. The 50/50 chance will get me into 1st or reverse and when I am in one of those, I can easily shift into the other one with no resistance.. Yesterday I took it around the block and stopped and started shifting into 2nd and 3rd. The clutch worked this time but I can tell you that moving from 2 to 3 seemed like it was sticky/ it was slightly harder to move it just from 2-3 than from R-1. The shifter moved from 2-3 with no gears grinding, but it still seemed like sometign was causing me to use a little more pressure on the shifter to get it down and up. This was all done with my foot planted on the clutch and the car stationary. After I moved it down and up a dozen times trying to "loosen it up", and seems like it didnt, I drove the car around in second. Seems no better, maybe slightly. I will take it for a quick spin today and give an update. I will also take some photos of the transmission.

I never drained the trans oil, but I checked and it was still full (after 3-5years). Should I change that? I have plenty of 600w oil. I am hoping that just from sitting so long, it needs to be used a little and broken in. Again, though it has been a few years since being completely rebuilt, the car has very low miles on it.

Thank you again, will post update soon!
Andrew

[kwisor]

are you dubble clutching

[iamskee]

I am double clutching, and to answer another question I am not entire sure the clutch is disengaging. I am not sure if the pedal needs adjustement. Since it works "sometime" I would tend to think the pedal adjustment was fine...but who knows....

It appears I have two issues:
the first being issues disengaging clutch/inability to shift.

the second issues is with 2nd/3rd gear. When the clutch is working and I am able to shift into 2nd, its difficult to describe but there are no grinding gears, everything sounds normal, but there is resistance when trying to shift up and down between 2 and 3. I did it several times thinking I could loosen it up (since it sat for so long) and to some degree I think I was successful. But it is still sticky, as I would describe it.

I am attaching pictures.

[iamskee]

There is also a small disk that stops spinning if I lift the cluch pedal up. but if I dont touch the pedal, that small disk in front keeps spinning. See last photo. Not sure if this is normal/ok?

[Bob C]

Originally Posted by iamskee

I am double clutching, and to answer another question I am not entire sure the clutch is disengaging. I am not sure if the pedal needs adjustement. Since it works "sometime" I would tend to think the pedal adjustment was fine...but who knows....

It appears I have two issues:
the first being issues disengaging clutch/inability to shift.

the second issues is with 2nd/3rd gear. When the clutch is working and I am able to shift into 2nd, its difficult to describe but there are no grinding gears, everything sounds normal, but there is resistance when trying to shift up and down between 2 and 3. I did it several times thinking I could loosen it up (since it sat for so long) and to some degree I think I was successful. But it is still sticky, as I would describe it.

I am attaching pictures.

How much free play do you have now? Should be about 3/4".

Bob

[iamskee]

Is there any way to upload videos? I took a few short videos today but I cant find a way to attach them.

[iamskee]

Originally Posted by Bob C

How much free play do you have now? Should be about 3/4".

Bob

Define free play please?

[1955cj5]

the small disc is the throwout bearing. Normally when your foot is off the clutch pedal and the engine is running the bearing would not be spinning.

From your description of the clutch sometimes working and sometimes not, I would look at the release lever as mentioned above, as they break now and then, and also the lubrication of the throwout bearing carrier..it is what the bearing is mounted on, and there is a lube fitting on it..this was also mentioned above.

You will need a grease gun with chassis grease and probably a needle fitting for the grease gun.

You might also spray some penetrating lube on the clutch release shaft from the outside of the housing, on both sides as it goes clear through the clutch housing....

Wrong computer or I would post pictures....