The Ford Barn

mrtexas · 11-17-2015, 10:28 AM

I recently sold my freshly restored 29 roadster. I had been advertising for 3 months in Hemmings, Fordbarn, my own website, Craigslist, and both Model A magazines. I cut out the crap on price and priced it a couple thousand $$ less than any other roadster out there. I couldn't find any 29 roadster out there for sale with a fresh restoration including new single stage paint, new lebarron bonney interior, new $2k brake rebuild, a nut and bolt restoration etc. The competition was asking $22-30k. The other ones were older restorations.

I was astounded that all I got in 3 months was 1 phone call from Hemmings online and one text message after it came out in The Restorer. Happily the phone call was local to me and the buyer bought it 15 minutes after he left after looking at it. He paid the asking price as it was already ridiculously low vs anything out there. It was however the least I would take. I need the space.

This sure stirred me up on how I will bargain for buying another antique car! No point in getting into a hurry or paying the asking price! Sure enough I'm getting another car this Friday but not a Model A. It is a Ford v8 woodie where there is more demand(however I see an increasing number of woodies for sale in "Woodie Times"). Everyone loves a woodie! Doubt I'll lose money if I ever sell as I bought it right for once.

I've also been looking at a restored but not "correct" in many ways 1955 Corvette for sale. It is priced at nose bleed levels but the seller hasn't had anyone come to look see after several months for sale. I've seen a similar car listed at 2x his elevated asking price. I view a 1950s car as a depreciating item. Those that want 1950s cars are getting up in age as well. I hear the same complaint about demand for 1960s C2 corvettes on the corvette forum(I own a 63 convertible). I don't see many 1950s cars or older in the televised auctions. Apparently the action at least for auction cars is mostly 1970s and 1980s!

I hope this doesn't still the pot too much. But it is my experience and MHO!

Is it me or is there little demand for Model As? Going the was of Model Ts?

BTW I'll have a very good quality freshly restored early 1928 open cab pickup with multi-disc clutch for sale shortly!

bdave_mcc · 11-17-2015, 10:39 AM

My opinion...and this comes from a recent lengthy conversation with a gentleman in the business of buying and selling antique cars...He said the people out there that have the money to pay top dollar for cars are either older people, or guys who don't have time to work on cars all the time and want something they can get in and drive to wherever they want, long trips or whatever...hot rodded stuff or antiques with small blocks is where the money is being spent right now. Not saying there aren't people out there that still like a stock model A. That's just where the market is right now.

burner31 · 11-17-2015, 10:53 AM

I would think the economy is having a big impact on Model A and other iconic automobiles when it comes to buying/selling. (I will not address the rich)
For the general public...these are hard times, those of us who are able to even contemplate buying an exotic vehicle (toy) have disposable income and are doing much better than most, we are blessed...truly blessed.
If it helps, I see Models A demand increasing the closer they get to the 100 year mark, as the economy improves, so will demand.
Though things can get worse, I'm hoping they will start getting better in say...13 months

Mitch//pa · 11-17-2015, 10:58 AM

there are many different levels and meanings of what a complete restoration is.. beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
this will affect what a particular car brings in terms of value
i see there is plenty of demand from barn find to driver to concourse restoration..where i see the problem usually lies is where the price are not matched appropriately to what is being sold..

Seth Swoboda · 11-17-2015, 11:00 AM

I'll add that I don't believe the economy has improved any either. I have two early ford projects that I can start on (1941 pickup and a 1946 3 passenger coupe) but any spare cash I have had lately I throw at my IRA. For folks who work an 8-5 job be it skilled labor or professional salaried work, the take home pay is not going up, generally speaking. Confidence in the economy is not strong for most folks and the last thing these people are going to do is spend money on a luxury item like an antique car. Everything is cyclical, I'm optimistic about the future.

Aok · 11-17-2015, 11:07 AM

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I use to fix up and sell old Plymouths mostly late 40's - early 50's. Wont comment on price as that is always changing but distance is always a factor with todays busy life styles many people do not want to travel a great distance to but a vehicle and one like you were selling would need to be seen before purchase so that cuts you buyers down .
Other problem I have seen is everyone expects to make a profit and when you put a lot of money in a vehicle you own for pleasure you cannot always get back what you put into it.

Seth Swoboda · 11-17-2015, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aok

I use to fix up and sell old Plymouths mostly late 40's - early 50's. Wont comment on price as that is always changing but distance is always a factor with todays busy life styles many people do not want to travel a great distance to but a vehicle and one like you were selling would need to be seen before purchase so that cuts you buyers down .
Other problem I have seen is everyone expects to make a profit and when you put a lot of money in a vehicle you own for pleasure you cannot always get back what you put into it.

I collect and restore for my own pleasure. I do not expect to get the value of the time and money I put into these fords back on a sale. It's just facts of the matter. If you want to invest, as I mentioned before, put your money in the markets. If you have some mechanical skills and want a great way to unwind from the reality of this world, relieve some stress, buy an early ford. You won't regret it.

Mikeinnj · 11-17-2015, 11:40 AM

It sounds like your in the business of flipping cars for profit. I just enjoy owning a piece of history and will continue to do so until I gat to an age or physical condition that prohibits me from doing so and then I will sell all my "stuff" so as not to have it become a burden to my family as i have often seen with fellow "collectors".

burner31 · 11-17-2015, 11:47 AM

Strongly agree with Seth, AOK and Mitch

burner31 · 11-17-2015, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeinnj

It sounds like your in the business of flipping cars for profit. I just enjoy owning a piece of history and will continue to do so until I gat to an age or physical condition that prohibits me from doing so and then I will sell all my "stuff" so as not to have it become a burden to my family as i have often seen with fellow "collectors".

Having a piece of history, like cars and a garage full of "stuff" is the kind of burden I can live with.

Great Lakes Greg · 11-17-2015, 12:00 PM

I sold three A's this past spring. I broke even on a coupe and a cabriolet, both nice drivers. I took an absolute bath on a nice '30 phaeton, but knew that would be the case. The sale price was about half of what I restored it for. That's the game, and I will continue to play (pay) it.

mshmodela · 11-17-2015, 12:39 PM

I understand no one wishes to loose on an investment but Model A's are not really an investment tier car... I will say they do keep their value better than most car 10 years old or less, so looking at it that way, enjoy your Model A as it's less lossy than your modern daily driver

700rpm · 11-17-2015, 12:44 PM

I sold my restored 1965 VW 21-window bus five years ago for $10k so I could buy a nice older restoration 1930 A pickup. My bus sold a year later for $15k, and went to Florida. Two years after that, it sold again for $25k, and I heard last week it was for sale again for $50k, and my source thought that was a bargain! Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I have put about $5k into the truck to get it the way I want it, and it would probably sell for about $13,500. A prices are pretty flat, and VW bus prices are ridiculous.

1931 flamingo · 11-17-2015, 12:58 PM

It also could be the time of year. Winter's coming. People may not want to ship/store a "new" vehicle if the weather looks/is terrible.
I also agree that the economy still sucks. JMO

Paul in CT

H. L. Chauvin · 11-17-2015, 12:59 PM

Just a few antique vehicle Price Experiences:

Experience No. 1:

In 1958 I went to our NAPA Parts Store 10 miles away to buy Model A points for 20 cents. The owner spent about an hour trying to explain to this teenager ahead of me to look for a "better" 1939 Ford in "good" shape rather than try to restore his wrecked, junk 1939 Ford because it was going to cost him a fortune to restore it and he would "never" recover "half" of what he spent in parts and paint ...... as usual, it went in one ear & exited the other ear when he said he would buy it anyway. After the teenager finally departed , the old NAPA owner told me to never forget this about "Advice":
Advice is never worth much: "Intelligent people do not need it ...... damn fools never take it."

Experience No. 2:

About 12 years ago I called about six (6) transport companies asking how much it cost to transport a Model A if I bought one out of state. First experienced trucker warned to never pay anything near the asking price ....... he said Model A sellers "never" get anything near what they ask for ...... and, after asking the remaining five (5) truckers about transport and selling price ...... same tune ...... never pay asking price.

Experience No.3:

Later I saw an add for my present 1930 Briggs Town Sedan for sale in another State. It had been up for sale only on the internet, for about (3) years, with what was told, many lookers & no buyers. It had been in heated storage for the last 30 years w/good wood, upholstery, & paint from a former "minor" cosmetic restoration. After having owned & driven a Model A for the past 50 years, I drove this one, returned, and contemplated on above Experiences No. 1 and No. 2 as I drove this Model A.

I rejected advice in Experience No. 2, followed advice in experience No. 1, and I offered him only the "asking" price ...... we were both happy ...... glad I did ..... about 15 minutes later, I found out both his young son & daughter-in-law were departing for Iraq in 2 weeks, and gramps & his wife had come down from New York to Fort Hood, Texas to take care of the grandkids while they both were in Iraq.

Appears Advice offered for "Pricing is similar to Spice on a Spice Rack.

Different flavors offered to fit one's likes and dislikes.

mrtexas · 11-17-2015, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeinnj

It sounds like your in the business of flipping cars for profit. I just enjoy owning a piece of history and will continue to do so until I gat to an age or physical condition that prohibits me from doing so and then I will sell all my "stuff" so as not to have it become a burden to my family as i have often seen with fellow "collectors".

I'm not a flipper.

The 29 roadster was the first car I sold after owning it for 10 years, 8 years apart and 2 years putting it back together. That is after buying 5 cars, still have 4 and am getting a 41 woodie this week as all the restorations are done and I want to keep busy. I bought the cars without deciding what I really wanted as far as condition or even type of car. I've ended up restoring body off 4 of them. The 5th was a hot rod and supposed to be "done" already. It took more than 6 months of effort to make it driveable as the small fix turned into a quite extensive fix.

I'm way underwater on the 29 roadster. I threw out all the receipts as I don't want to know. Under water on 28 open cab pickup as well. Way under water on 63 corvette to the tune of what a 28 pickup is worth! I got lucky on the 36 woodie and have about the going price into it. Probably the same on the 41 woodie I'm buying this week. No, I'm not a car flipper. Car flippers don't restore cars.

I've decided I really want a car that is like new. Only one I have that meets the criteria is the 36 woodie and the 28 pickup. They don't meet the criteria of show car with every nut and bolt the same as when the car was new however. I enjoy driving them rather than looking at them. I can't load the family in the 28 pickup so it is going. I really like a 55 corvette better than a 63 so perhaps it is going.

It's so hard to decide what I really want! After the fiasco with the 49 woodie I've raised my level of comfort with higher purchase prices to get a better car. But as the saying goes if you want to make a small fortune restoring cars start with a big fortune.

Steve_Mack_CT · 11-17-2015, 01:02 PM

It seems to me Model As have been relatively stable in price for a long time - a good supply and decent demand at market prices. I do think the market is pretty slow on prewar non Fords (Fords in good bodystyles still have a following - at the correct price, A, T, V-8) but sound for Fords, brass cars and most Full Classics.

Tough to say why certain cars take off as 700rpm points out. Not to criticize a VW bus, they are cool, but $50K? Insane, IMHO but the market disagrees. Same thing with air cooled Porsches and 190 SL MB. The 190 SL is a real mystery to me - nice enough to look at but under powered and ignored by MB enthusiasts forever - now more expensive than an XKE??! Strangely, I am a big German car fan but happened to rattle these three off. Maybe because I follow that market more.

I guess a slow market is all the more reason to worry less about nicks and such and drive more!

holdover · 11-17-2015, 01:15 PM

none of the vehicles I own were purchased as an investment, just for the pleasure of owning them. If you look at my late model vehicles that I bought new: 1996 F150 Eddie Bauer, 2002 Explorer XLT, 2003 Ranger 4X4, 2004 Ranger XLT 4X4 (wife,s truck) , 2005 Miata Speed, 2012 Escape AWD, and still have think how much money I have lost on those(at least 70K)! As to my "Toys" '29 Coupe, ,29 CCPU, '65 Mustang FB 289 4 speed, 1982 Jeep CJ7, 1992 Mustang 5.0 hatchback etc etc. They are just something to play in the garage with and take for a ride. If I kept score money wise I wouldn't be able to sleep at night. I am grateful that I have been blessed with the ability to have purchased these things and still keep everything else such as house, medical, kids college in balance. Sure I wish things were a bit cheaper than they are now, last time I looked at new ford pickups I got a taste of sticker shock! And I was just a working guy at Ma Bell with modest income.
I'll say one thing vehicles have been my hobby since grade school, I would have more money in my IRAs if it wasn't for them, but I might not enjoy life as much. Being retired it is nice to jump into my '29 PU and drive down to the local store for a biscuit and cup of java, the ride doesn't feel the same in the Explorer

Jeff/Illinois · 11-17-2015, 01:26 PM

Ray, that has indeed been the trend with VW busses, the prices are going thru the roof for good ones. The Hippies from the 60's who condemned the Establishment and their $$, now are awash in cash themselves from structured corporate mergers, banking malfeasance, dope sales, whatever they do with their MBA's, and they want to spend on their memories

30-31 Roadsters, Phaetons, and Cabriolets seem to still do quite well. And the street rodders will be snapping them up as time goes by. '28-'29 Roadsters just don't bring as much money.

And, you never recoup your money anyway we all know that. Don't look back, go out and have fun with whatever you like. Going to a funeral visitation tonite for a good friend (57) who collapsed in his home Sunday morning, went into a coma, and died. We never know from day to day. I'm sure when he woke up that day he didn't know he'd never see Sunday afternoon--------------

jim1932 · 11-17-2015, 01:31 PM

There is a difference between a "Flipper" and someone who likes to restore cars. For a lot of people, once you are done working on the car, the fun goes out of it. Other people like to own and drive the cars. Personal preference. I think there is also a lot of B.S. prices out there. Ads for cars that are posted at top dollar and they just wait to see if someone will bite. I see the same thing for parts. crazy money ads, and ads priced to actually sell.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 11-17-2015, 01:33 PM

The car market has been GROSSLY SCREWED UP by all the crazy TV AUCTIONS, etc. WHAT is really REAL & how much is MADE UP, to get high TV RATINGS, so they can sell their advertising time for BIG BUCKS $$$$$$$$$$?
Bill W.

SeaSlugs · 11-17-2015, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois

Ray, that has indeed been the trend with VW busses, the prices are going thru the roof for good ones. The Hippies from the 60's who condemned the Establishment and their $$, now are awash in cash themselves from structured corporate mergers, banking malfeasance, dope sales, whatever they do with their MBA's, and they want to spend on their memories

agreed, people at retirement age now were born late 40's early 50's. when they could drive and own a car it was 1968. Think of all the muscle cars and hot rods that were coming out around that time period, all these retired guys that could never afford the 1970 chevelle 454, or dodge charger, z28 camaro what have you can now possibly afford these cars and they've done their midlife crisis and see the inevitable end of the road and want to live in the now so to speak, their not interested to spend the next 5-10 years restoring one.

pooch · 11-17-2015, 03:09 PM

I was astounded that all I got in 3 months was 1 phone call from Hemmings online and one text message after it came out in The Restorer. Happily the phone call was local to me and the buyer bought it 15 minutes after he left after looking at it. He paid the asking price as it was already ridiculously low vs anything out there. It was however the least I would take. I need the space.

May I ask how old was the buyer......this may give a clue .

ronn · 11-17-2015, 03:11 PM

the mkt is soft for most American cars...........

pretty much sums it up about our economy.

Germany has been doing well financially and are buying back their "old" cars.

as Steve said, the 190s, vws and porsches are on a tear..................
all overpriced in my opinion.

listed 12 items on ebay last weekend- four were cars. sold one car...........

buyer went mia.

that is why I am only a buyer these days, nothing to sell unless you want to give it away.

Lefthander1930 · 11-17-2015, 03:18 PM

Winter bad time to sell a roadster, great time to buy old cars from us seniors, 73 & still kicking

2manycars · 11-17-2015, 03:25 PM

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I think the prices of the model A vary a lot, and probably should vary even more. A properly and accuratly restored model A might sell for 20 -25K, and it would cost twice or three times that to restore, so a good price. On the other hand, there are a lot of cars offered that are poor restorations, cosmetic resprays, odd colors, strange interiors, and so on, that are overpriced compared to correct cars. I looked at a coupe last week that was a solid car with a nice paint job, rebuilt motor, and new tires. It was one color green, no second color, a plastic tape stripe, poorly installed roof, really bad interior, and it sold for $11,500. A fair price, but imagine what it would cost to make the car what a restored one should be. Cheaper to buy the expensive one if one wants a correct car. If only looking for something to drive and have fun, then a good price.
Another factor is the guy who recently died, and told his wife all those years that he was spending money on the car because it would be worth X, and now the family has the car offered for X or more, and it is sadly not worth that money.
I found a really nice coupe, just what I am looking for, and the price was good, but it is on the other side of the country, so it would cost at least a couple thousand to get it here.
As my father used to say, the car is worth what the buyer is willing to pay.

Hoogah · 11-17-2015, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 700rpm

. . .Model A prices are pretty flat, and VW bus prices are ridiculous. . . .

Same here! Check these babies . . .

http://www.shannons.com.au/auctions/.../#.VkuUeXYrLIU

http://www.shannons.com.au/auctions/.../#.VkuU-nYrLIU

... and on the other hand, you can afford three or four 20s cars for the same money!

http://www.shannons.com.au/auctions/.../#.VkuVt3YrLIU

mshmodela · 11-17-2015, 04:13 PM

So if you want a unibody VW, open your wallet... they have their charm but a Model A for me has a lot more.

mhsprecher · 11-17-2015, 04:29 PM

I have been lucky to buy a couple of Model As, old restorations, for pretty reasonable prices. I just bought two V8s and probably should have held out for the lower price I offered, but I liked them just too much. And they were local. None of this hundreds of miles to look at and fetch a car.

I am still shocked by how much 30s V8s go for. I am also surprised at how reasonable non-Ford antiques are. As many have said, the Model A demographic is aging and that will probably affect prices.

I grew up in the 60s and have no interest in a car from that era. I am not even so hot for 50s cars, but would own up to a 56 Ford.

My first on the road car was a 56 Chevy and I have almost no interest in buying one of them. That is me. I have always done things a little differently.

Mr. T, I am waiting for woodies to get cheaper. Model A woodies aren't too bad, but the 30s flatties are still to dear for this MBA who is still working.

barkleydave · 11-17-2015, 06:12 PM

The car market has always been trendy... what is hot today...is cold tomorrow. I have bought my share of rides over the years. Never was a flipper so never made a dime.. but lost many more.

Take out of the market what is selling on TV auctions and cut to the chase. My truck is probably worth more than I have in it... however not enough where I would sell for the profit. Now trading for something of equal value and condition is another matter.

I like old cars! As an example I have a 57 MGA 1500 roadster in beautiful condition I have owned for 16 years. The restoration is older but looks almost as good as the day I completed it. It lives covered in a heated and air conditioned environment. I drive it occasionally to keep it happy and me... I would would like to trade for an equal Model A 1930/31 Tudor. Not because there is any reason to get rid of it other than... just a change.

I work on my cars but am not a restorer. I am getting too old to invest in the skill set and the tools etc. My priority is to enjoy them on the road.

Buy a car you want to enjoy. There is always a market for nice well maintained vehicles. If you overprice it your ad will go stale quickly. Market at a fair price and it will sell.

I found the best buys are within our clubs from members you know and cars you have seen on the road on tours.

Slotblog · 11-17-2015, 06:20 PM

The value of an old car is related pretty closely to supply and demand. On the supply side, Model As pretty much top the chart. The demand side is where the numbers are dropping. As I've claimed before, considering the changing value of money over time, the more common Model As have been shrinking in value for some time and I don't see that trend changing. I didn't buy my A for an investment, though there are some body styles that are holding their value quite well or even appreciating.

Anyone following the greater collectible/old car market in recent years will have seen the incredible appreciation in value certain cars have achieved. IMO the more common cars that have less demand behind them are softening in value and I don't see that changing either.

700rpm · 11-17-2015, 08:28 PM

I paid $125 for my Tudor in 1961. I spent about $1000 restoring it in 1980. Rebuilt the engine 4 years ago for $2200. I have spent more money on storage over 54 years than I have on the car! But I'm still ahead... I think. Anyway, I don't own the car anymore, it owns me.

updraught · 11-18-2015, 07:15 AM

Those VW buses were good at damaging legs in an accident? A bit of tin and the VW badge with the drum brakes between you and the impact.

I bet they didn't advertise that ...

Rowdy · 11-18-2015, 08:40 AM

While I have not tried to sell any completed cars, just parts. The economy still sucks. Things do not sell as fast as they did in 2005 that is for sure. There is still money to be made, just it takes longer. So dig your heels in and be patient. Rod

Terry, NJ · 11-18-2015, 09:18 AM

It seems to me that A s and parts have gone way up like a rocket in the last two years. I saw a nice coupe brought home from Hershey for 19K, This guy never sells anything he doesn't make money on. Then I got my latest coupe for 8K, it's a very restorable #3 cond. with a good engine. I told my friend Ron, I'd sell coupe #2 (a30) for 9K if he finds someone. It's a low #3 but it runs ok and is a solid car that needs some body work and paint. This summer, He sold a 31 for 5500 that I wouldn't have touched for 2K, Didn't run, half the engine was missing. blah blah! You get the point.
However, If you know someone who'd like a hotrod, he has one of those too. A muchly modified street car with a SBC (327) and a GM (400) auto, trans. Finished! Doesn't need anything! Mint green w/pinstriping. I'll send pics if anyone wants, can be yours for 35K
Terry

Jeff/Illinois · 11-18-2015, 09:56 AM

Terry mentioned street rod values...... although I don't follow them a buddy that does told me once that you can really take a 'bath' on selling a street rod, that you can and will loose a ton of cash. They are preemo bucks if done right.

So, in relation to what kind of dollars Model A Fords sell and buy for, I guess we are looking at not being bit as badly fooling with stock Model A's as you would a street rod. Street Rods have a lot wider 'spread' in dollars over a stock Model A. Also, some of those rods running around are just out right dangerous, they depend upon how skillful the builder is in welding, etc. etc.

I watched a very rough '31 Roadster (negative #4 at the very best) sell at auction last Sept. for $7,000. It wasn't even good for a parts car in my opinion so you never know. Hadn't run since 1964, motor was froze up, no top, missing many parts just a ratty rusted shell on a stick

BILL WILLIAMSON · 11-18-2015, 11:19 AM

I, personally, would NEVER buy or sell another car on the Internet. I even received a $22,000.00 COUNTERFEIT check!! Read about it on MAFCA's SCAMS page! Also, when buying local, you can easily find out all the history of the car.
Bill W.

ronn · 11-18-2015, 03:04 PM

dig your heels in and be patient. Rod

patience is a virtue that I just dont have and am not planning on "learning"..........

Sunnybrook Farm · 11-18-2015, 03:35 PM

If one looks at some real new sources rather than the ones that read what the government issues, we and the world have just entered a recession and the graphs look very much like they did just prior to 2008. Most people have become scared to put out a lot of money, things are not good just look at Caterpillar which is a good global indicator.
I am fixing up an A to drive as I can't afford to buy another car and I need something I can work on rather than pay a mechanic. I don't have a clue how to work on my 10 year old car that is starting to fail. Luckily I live in a rural area where I can drive at Model A speeds to get to town.

Pinesdune · 11-18-2015, 03:49 PM

It seems things are about the same up here, most cars that are bringing the buck$ are the ones that the baby boomer generation dreamed of owning/driving. Solid classics left original or restored just don't have much demand as most people don't have the common sense/knowhow to make an old car run and keep it maintained. The saddest point I've noticed is that due to the lowering of interest (and dollar value) in model A's and cars like her, is that way too often, good original cars are getting bought and chopped into hotrods because it's the "in" thing. If they're in the right hands and get completed, is one thing, but way too often it's some weekend warrior who tears them apart/chops them up and leaves them for dead and to me, that's sacrilegious!

Oldbluoval · 11-18-2015, 04:06 PM

I used to feel the same way about modificaton and I am purist....but not interested in putting them on a show field. Don't care what a "judge" thinks of them.
But, I had rather see someone rod something than for it to sit is a dark basement never finished, never seeing daylight.
The thing with the hobby is that is should be activity-based. I am a huge culprit of not being a joiner-inner!
If they make it run and enjoy it, that's the hobby part.
There have been many posts about being up-side-down, losing money, can't get out of it and on and on. You don't join a golf or tennis club to make money.
If you are in this to make money....you're a dealer not a hobbyist. And you should evaluate a market according to demand (and supply) and be able to purchase "right".
I know this is a bit off subject of the original post. My comment to that is that you do have to stick with the more desirable, rarer cars. You will be up-side-down in a tudor, fordor or coupe just because of the cost of any restoration part of the process versus market.

Hoogah · 11-18-2015, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by updraught

Those VW buses were good at damaging legs in an accident? A bit of tin and the VW badge with the drum brakes between you and the impact.

I bet they didn't advertise that ...

Yeah they should have put something more substantial there . . .
. . . like a PETROL TANK!!

denis4x4 · 11-18-2015, 09:55 PM

Recently sold a '31 ccpu at a bargain price. Had three confirmed buyers until they got the transport price. Sold it to a gentleman that had a private party pick it up and deliver it. Never lost a dime buying and selling woodies.

SeaSlugs · 11-18-2015, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldbluoval

I used to feel the same way about modificaton and I am purist....but not interested in putting them on a show field. Don't care what a "judge" thinks of them.
But, I had rather see someone rod something than for it to sit is a dark basement never finished, never seeing daylight.
The thing with the hobby is that is should be activity-based. I am a huge culprit of not being a joiner-inner!
If they make it run and enjoy it, that's the hobby part.

this exactly, i dont care what it is but as long as it gets out of the garage and driven more than 10 miles a year im happy! i may only get to go to a handful of cruise ins a year but just driving around is my enjoyment.

ian Simpson · 11-18-2015, 11:40 PM

The cost of the restoration is the price you pay for participating in a very engrossing hobby.

The cash you get when you sell is what somebody else values the car at.

There is no correlation between the two.

1930marie · 11-19-2015, 12:59 AM

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For me, restoring cars has always been a constructive and rewarding way to spend a bit of my spare time. My wife loves to travel and there are several places on my "bucket-list!" However, there is something about an early morning Sunday drive in a 1912 Ford Touring or a 1930 deluxe roadster that makes me feel more alive. Probably the pride I've earned knowing I can put one of these things together and make them purr! Now ask yourself, don't we all have this pride with our cars? I have never thought of putting a price on it, it's just my entertainment and how I prefer to spend my time and money.

1930marie · 11-19-2015, 01:02 AM

uh-oh. I guess I forgot to mention I also have six ex- wifes! Just kidding!

mike657894 · 11-19-2015, 02:01 AM

my car was given to me with the understanding that i would never sell it. so monetary value means little to me. I had looked at the car for 31 years before it became mine.

mike657894 · 11-19-2015, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian Simpson

The cost of the restoration is the price you pay for participating in a very engrossing hobby.

The cash you get when you sell is what somebody else values the car at.

There is no correlation between the two.

something is only worth what the buyer will pay. if something has no price is it priceless or worthless?

inex01 · 12-18-2015, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1930marie

For me, restoring cars has always been a constructive and rewarding way to spend a bit of my spare time. My wife loves to travel and there are several places on my "bucket-list!" However, there is something about an early morning Sunday drive in a 1912 Ford Touring or a 1930 deluxe roadster that makes me feel more alive. Probably the pride I've earned knowing I can put one of these things together and make them purr! Now ask yourself, don't we all have this pride with our cars? I have never thought of putting a price on it, it's just my entertainment and how I prefer to spend my time and money.

My feelings and situation are exactly the same as you have described. I have a 31 Roadster & a 31 Sedan and get so much enjoyment in driving and maintaining both of these fine cars. I start my day around 3:30 and at times am in the garage with my cars at 4AM doing some maintenance or adjustments that may be needed. Definitely not a money maker but definitely offers lots of interesting entertainment .

Tomy Turbos · 12-18-2015, 11:12 AM

A comment on 'asking prices':

More often than one might think, the ask is deliberately too high because the guy doesn't really want to sell it. But he has to keep the Missus happy when she says 'Honey, you need to sell that thing'.

Steve_Mack_CT · 12-18-2015, 12:22 PM

Tomy Turbos, that, or "maybe I will get lucky" - had a friend quote a ridicules price for a "resto rod" caddy he had and the car actually sold - for probably $25K over what he might have listed it for had he not been approached, he was not even planning to sell at the time.

Anyone who follows the buy sell section of the AACA web site on Fordbarn? What about the REO sedan @ $19K - seen a few of these cars this year, non-Ford, non-Full Classics at bargain prices.

We are lucky that a LOT of people like the security of the strong following/parts and knowledge network/club support and ready market the Model A enjoys.

FrankWest · 12-18-2015, 03:18 PM

I think when the baby boomers die off there will be almost NO demand For Cars from the 1920's.
I used to teach college and I was amazed that most of my students would not even watch a movie that was made before 1970! They considered it not relevant. My son laughed at me when I told him my 1933 model b had a 50 HP engine. He has a plastic corvette with a 400 HP Hemi! The only things today's generation likes from the 20's and 30's is Al Capone and John Dillinger because they like the violence.

A Rookie · 12-18-2015, 03:29 PM

As to the market- Its in the toilet for project cars, done cars or gennie drivers its still pretty good but not great..
My take on asking prices is simply that no one will pay it as a rule. They balk at FIRM and run when not accepting trades. So I jack everything 20% and will accept 1/2 in trade IF full price is accepted. IF it meets my interest areas.
My rules on trades are simple
1. No title NO deal
2. NO back 40 rust bucket escapees Unless its a Duzzie, pre 35 classic era Packard/Caddy etc. , GT 40 ,pre 68 'Vette, or complete driving titled pre 40 Ford 2dr or cpe. I am NOT interested
3. Get it HERE, I do not have the means to travel and PU a shoebox much less a car.
That's pretty much it.

SeaSlugs · 12-18-2015, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankWest

I think when the baby boomers die off there will be almost NO demand For Car from the 1920's.
I used to teach college and I was amazed that most of my students would not even watch a movie that was made before 1970! They considered it not relevant. My son laughed at me when I told him my 1933 model b had a 50 HP engine. He has a plastic corvette with a 400 HP Hemi! The only things today's generation likes from the 20's and 30's is Al Capone and John Dillinger because they like the violence.

guess im a rare bird...some of my favorite TV watching when i was single digit age was old Laurel and Hardy, Charlie Chaplin, Charlie Chan, Buster Keaton and of course The 3 Stooges. Movies of the era are more believable that some of the crap they have out now where the previews are the best parts

I love the music of the era too and of course the whole speakeasy scene. WW1 and WW2 fascenate me too, its interesting to think about what technology we would NOT have today if WW1 and 2 didnt happen.

Barry B./ Ma. · 12-19-2015, 09:03 AM

I recently sold my 30 std. roadster after getting only 3 calls from my ad in Hemmings but needed to drop the price several thousand $$. The new owner is delighted and it was just what he was looking for as a nice show/driver. I used some of the money to buy a nice 86 Ford step side pickup from Ariz.which I could register as antique and use around the place. New pickups are ridiculously expensive and this one should increase in value down the road.

Tomy Turbos · 12-19-2015, 10:19 AM

Yeah, Steve. It takes all kinds.

I know of many instances where a car didn't sell until AFTER the price was raised. I never did get my wits fully wrapped around the precise mechanisms of this other than knowing that there are some people out there who perceive value purely in dollar signs. You know, the kind of person whose dog can jump higher than yours.

And then there's simply waiting for the right buyer. For years I had the mistaken notion that you can't sell a convertible after October, so I wasn't even offering them. A friend disabused me of the notion and since then the two of the last three drop-tops I've sold were in December and January. The take home is that the people who want convertibles, want convertibles. And that's what they buy.

Antique vehicles have always had and will continue to have a much more narrow market, and the reasons for this are numerous. Financing is high on the list, and it ties in strongly to the overall economy. I think this is more significant than desirability or fashion trend, though it is true that "reliving one's childhood" is a factor. A guy who Graduated in 1970 can now get that '69 Camaro SS he so desperately wanted back then.

My mother (born in 1930) stopped by the other day and I showed her the '29 I have in here. Her eyes lit up and she began to recount stories of her and her little sister all bundled up in the rumble seat on the long, perilous trip from East Cleveland to Euclid on the way to Aunt Margaret's for Christmas, etc.
Etc...
Etc...
Seeing the Old Gal turn into a little girl again through her memories -- Priceless!

3thumbs · 12-19-2015, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankWest

I think when the baby boomers die off there will be almost NO demand For Cars from the 1920's.
I used to teach college and I was amazed that most of my students would not even watch a movie that was made before 1970! They considered it not relevant. My son laughed at me when I told him my 1933 model b had a 50 HP engine. He has a plastic corvette with a 400 HP Hemi! The only things today's generation likes from the 20's and 30's is Al Capone and John Dillinger because they like the violence.

We brought our very nice '31 Tudor to Mesa Arizona for the winter, and have had it in three car shows since we got down here. The only interest is in cars with blowers sticking out of the hoods. The only guys that have shown any interest in our car were already Model A enthusiasts!

Dave

mister32 · 12-19-2015, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian Simpson

The cost of the restoration is the price you pay for participating in a very engrossing hobby.

The cash you get when you sell is what somebody else values the car at.

There is no correlation between the two.

I guess I need to tell the construction company building a house... "The cost for you to build the house is the price you pay for participating in a very engrossing hobby."

Why is it that skilled labor and time when applied to a car is worthless?

Everyone that says "This is meant to be a hobby only"... Anything you have ever bought for your car has been because someone was willing to dedicate a good portion of their life to bringing you products for it. Including the car itself. Model A's were not produced as a hobby and given away for free?

The next time you buy oil or spark plugs you will be paying someone a profit....That's the only reason the product is available for you to buy.

FrankWest · 12-19-2015, 01:11 PM

As time passes there probably be less and less demand. How is the demand for model T's
I love model A's and early 30's cars but have NO interest in owning a model T. Model T's are interesting but I am not interested in that early era. Any car is a large item that needs care, unlike an antique firearm that can just be displayed and needs almost no upkeep.

dlfrisch · 12-19-2015, 04:53 PM

Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general?

First of all.....I love my 1930 "A" coupe. Perfect every day driver. We (my wife and I) are in the process of moving and we both thought, it would be OK to sell the "A". We will buy another Model A later and like the past good times, we would have fun and rebuild another one. We have a few other vehicles to move (transport) plus two Harley Davidson touring bikes and by selling the "A", it would be a little less to worry about. Our Model A is totally restored - bottom up - down - inside and out. We have nearly $ 25K dollars invested. It has been advertised in or on Ebay - Hemmings Magazine - Craigslist and in the Restorer Magazine. I dropped the asking price to $18K dollars OMO.......a few weeks ago, someone offered $15K - (NG). Talk about a poor market(s) ! On top of the antique auto market, we have had three real estate offers and all three of these offers have been declined by mortgage lenders.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 12-19-2015, 04:56 PM

There will always be a certain amount of demand for OLD CARS, it's just that MANY folks are just BLOWIN' SMOKE & have "BIG" ideas & NO MONEY!!!! Like the guy that came to look at Greggs' $20,000.00 tool set up that I have for sale & had to push start his old car when he left!
Bill W.

colin1928 · 12-19-2015, 09:29 PM

Around these parts if you put $10000.00 worth of parts and labour into a vintage car you might increase its value by 1/2 that much if your lucky
Now if you want to make money buy a new car take it apart and sell all the parts should about double your money

Tinbasher · 12-20-2015, 09:07 PM

It's the thirty year syndrome. The cars everyone wanted when they where 20 are in demand when they are 50. Model A's where big 30 years ago. The next thing coming will be the 80's cars!! Buick T types, Buick Grand Nationals, Ford SHO Taurus' etc. Everyone has a different "dream" some are nightmares.

John Poole

Terry, NJ · 12-21-2015, 08:46 AM

I agree with you to a point. However, how do you explain the sustained and increased value of brass era cars? If this were 100% the case, we should be able to pick up Model K and N R S Fords for scrap prices. There's no doubt that what you say is true in some, even many cases, but not all. I was born 13 years after the last Mod A rolled of the line and it was never my dream car, Yet here I am, owning 3 of them and contemplating more. or other models. I like cars! I'm a motor head, I have gasoline in my blood! Jay Leno has gasoline in his blood too. That's what keeps me spending $ on this vintage tin. Of course, I'm going to try to spend as little as possible!
Terry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinbasher

It's the thirty year syndrome. The cars everyone wanted when they where 20 are in demand when they are 50. Model A's where big 30 years ago. The next thing coming will be the 80's cars!! Buick T types, Buick Grand Nationals, Ford SHO Taurus' etc. Everyone has a different "dream" some are nightmares.

John Poole

burner31 · 12-21-2015, 09:14 AM

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If all this were true Bill W would have a stall full of horses, not a garage of fine metal.

It's the economy.

Steve_Mack_CT · 12-21-2015, 09:54 AM

Terry I agree with Tinbasher to a point as well, however my view is a little different. When one looks at cars as an interest, tough to say it is shrinking given the fact there are more publications, clubs, events, etc. than say in the 70s - 80s when a lot of the prewar/immediate postwar stuff fit the description of being wanted by folks reaching an age where they could afford it.

I would describe the guy buying a "car of his youth" as more of an enthusiast, (my brother in law a good example, has a GTO but little interest outside that era/genre) - there are a lot of guys out there like that, and even with "declining interest in young people" you are seeing this trend with the 70s to 80s cars now.

Collectors in my mind, are a little different. They are more interested in broad eras and may pick eras not associated with their youth - a little deeper interest, I think - and a much smaller group. The brass car comments are right on - I think some younger guys who have been lucky enough to be exposed to them are interested in something so different, and really maybe even better suited to younger owners due to the work involved in upkeep or even driving - I am seeing a lot of nice brass cars owned by people younger than me at 52. Same with "A and "T" cars (Speedsters and tourings are still pretty hot in Model T world - a sporty appeal and/or quintissential "old touring car") - I'm no longer youngest guy in the room.

I also think venue makes a difference, cruise nights and local shows tend to draw a different crowd than concours or club tours. A lot of guys already figured that out - here in CT there are a few "no miss" events if you like early Fords or early prewar cars in general, but we skip most shows because they just draw a different crowd. Our Mercedes would be out of place at these events also, but we check out some stuff that caters to the European sports car crowd, our second love.

I think it is a very big, segmented hobby vs. a dying hobby. Our segment may be shrinking a little, but I think the small % of collectors in a larger overall hobby will ensure the preservation of these cars.

denis4x4 · 12-21-2015, 10:05 AM

Not exactly sure if this is germane to the subject at hand, but certainly interesting;

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/...tml?refer=news

The number of times the word ORIGINAL is used in the ad copy is certainly an irony.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 12-21-2015, 11:15 AM

I wish Velocity or Discovery channels would have a series on Early Ford, Model A, and Model T restoration, & shows, etc.
It would also be GREAT advertising for the PARTS SUPPLIERS.
Bill W.

CarlG · 12-21-2015, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denis4x4

...The number of times the word ORIGINAL is used in the ad copy is certainly an irony.

According to my Dad, who will soon be 96, and was 11 years old when my rig came off the line, not many cars of that era stayed "original" for very long. He says that there was this big push to make the car you owned "your" car and that involved changing/altering/modifying whatever to accomplish that.

mshmodela · 12-21-2015, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill williamson

i wish velocity or discovery channels would have a series on early ford, model a, and model t restoration, & shows, etc.
it would also be great advertising for the parts suppliers.
bill w.

ditto!!

Jeff/Illinois · 12-21-2015, 06:34 PM

Hate to admit and this has been talked about forever, but guys in their 60's 'just ain't into Model A Fords'. These guys want BIG BLOCK Chevelles-Torino's- 'Cuda's it's just a fact of life.

I don't see the youth today really caring that much about them we all know the stories. The only selling point for young car buyers today is 'How good is the Synch hows the Navistar and what technical doo dads does the car have?' The major car mfg.'s know this and this is what they are marketing. They aren't selling cars so to speak anymore.

And with so many A's coming on the market, and not really that much demand, we had all better plan on taking it in the shorts at selling time the profit margin isn't there. What 25 year old guy that wants to spend $25K on a collector car (if they even have a decent job) is going to shop for a Model A? Yeah they'll take grandpa's car if it's free but outside of that, forget it. I see this more and more even the last six months--------------

And, one more thing. You read it in The Restorer and MAN all the time. "We drove the Model A to (fill in the blank) and spun a center main, or threw a fan through the radiator, or the clutch broke, or that fiber timing gear shredded" and on and on. We fixed it lying in a ditch beside the road. How many young people are going to find THAT fun????!!!! Most 60's cars I have been around will run half way across the country and bring you back in good order.

I'm just sayin'.

2manycars · 12-21-2015, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlfrisch

Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general?

First of all.....I love my 1930 "A" coupe. Perfect every day driver. We (my wife and I) are in the process of moving and we both thought, it would be OK to sell the "A". We will buy another Model A later and like the past good times, we would have fun and rebuild another one. We have a few other vehicles to move (transport) plus two Harley Davidson touring bikes and by selling the "A", it would be a little less to worry about. Our Model A is totally restored - bottom up - down - inside and out. We have nearly $ 25K dollars invested. It has been advertised in or on Ebay - Hemmings Magazine - Craigslist and in the Restorer Magazine. I dropped the asking price to $18K dollars OMO.......a few weeks ago, someone offered $15K - (NG). Talk about a poor market(s) ! On top of the antique auto market, we have had three real estate offers and all three of these offers have been declined by mortgage lenders.

This is a common problem. "investing" $25K in a car is not an investment unless the car rotunely sells for a lot more. It is an expenditure, not an investment, unless it produces dividends. This also brings home the fact that the amount of money spent on a car is not directly related to the value of the car to a buyer. My buddy spent $26k on his coupe to get it the way he wanted it, and could only get $18k after advertising it for months. A 40 ford or a 34 ford might bring the big bucks, but today the model A does not command the big money. It costs a lot more to restore or fix one than it will sell for.

rob63mess · 12-21-2015, 08:25 PM

The way I see it.....I have a 30 roadster.....paid 8500 for it.....probably ly put another 3000 in it. What's it worth?.....probably ly 10K to 13K depending how lo g I would want to sit on it. Now......take a guy that loves to golf. 25 or 30 bucks a round a beer or two. He goes maybe 3 times week maybe a trip down south with his buddies once a year with his golf buddies. You get my drift. It doesn't matter what your hobby may be. There is a certain a amount of money required to participate. If we're lucky ...whe. it comes time to sell....the enjoyment it well worth the money that we don't get back. I know for me....it's worth it.

burner31 · 12-21-2015, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois

Hate to admit and this has been talked about forever, but guys in their 60's 'just ain't into Model A Fords'. These guys want BIG BLOCK Chevelles-Torino's- 'Cuda's it's just a fact of life.

I don't see the youth today really caring that much about them we all know the stories. The only selling point for young car buyers today is 'How good is the Synch hows the Navistar and what technical doo dads does the car have?' The major car mfg.'s know this and this is what they are marketing. They aren't selling cars so to speak anymore.

And with so many A's coming on the market, and not really that much demand, we had all better plan on taking it in the shorts at selling time the profit margin isn't there. What 25 year old guy that wants to spend $25K on a collector car (if they even have a decent job) is going to shop for a Model A? Yeah they'll take grandpa's car if it's free but outside of that, forget it. I see this more and more even the last six months--------------

And, one more thing. You read it in The Restorer and MAN all the time. "We drove the Model A to (fill in the blank) and spun a center main, or threw a fan through the radiator, or the clutch broke, or that fiber timing gear shredded" and on and on. We fixed it lying in a ditch beside the road. How many young people are going to find THAT fun????!!!! Most 60's cars I have been around will run half way across the country and bring you back in good order.

I'm just sayin'.

Hey wait a minute, I'm still in my 60's (for the foreseeable future) and I love my Model A. no "do dads", no 12 volts, none of that stuff.
Even my '57 Chevy is mostly the way I had it back in the '70's, I'm funny that way.

SSsssteamer · 12-21-2015, 10:20 PM

An interesting observation of mine over the years has been the parts availability and our cost there of. In the 1960's, Monkey Ward, and Sears sold most all of the consumable parts for our Model A Fords. Starters, generators, exhausts, hoses, V belts, rebuilt engines, tires, on and on that we needed. Warshawski and J.C. Whitney both had Model A Ford parts catalogs for the hard items like door handles, top kits, plated items, wire harness and so forth. These guys don't hardly sell anything anymore that will fit a model A Ford. We have new Model A Fords parts vendors that now can sell you a lot more parts than ever before. Why did Sears and the other old timers quite the model A Ford parts business? Did the Model A Ford parts demand drop off? Is there more competition now than in the 60's? What changed the market? Fewer Model A Fords now being restored by fewer restorers? Fewer restorers?

fordf1trucknut · 12-21-2015, 11:09 PM

I am a younger (ish) guy at 35 and find that there are some other younger guys in my area into early fords.

I don't view my collection as an investment at all....that would remove the fun from the hobby.

I enjoy restoring, working on, and especially driving and sharing with others. Especially our 2 daughters. Our oldest (6 years old ) already has a 30 coupe of her own that she is working on with my help..she hopes to have it done by her 16th birthday. So i am at least trying to do my part to keep interest

dumb person · 12-22-2015, 01:52 AM

Antiques in general. People are losing contact with the physical realm and care only for fast food, faster wifi and can get all their antique itches scratched through pinterest or etsy right through their newfound touchscreen hand panel thingamajig.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois

And, one more thing. You read it in The Restorer and MAN all the time. "We drove the Model A to (fill in the blank) and spun a center main, or threw a fan through the radiator, or the clutch broke, or that fiber timing gear shredded" and on and on. We fixed it lying in a ditch beside the road. How many young people are going to find THAT fun????!!!!

i would but i am the antitheses of popular culture.

Henry's Lady's Man · 12-22-2015, 02:09 AM

Can it be that our young sprouts are too busy with their phones to care about our hobby? Perhaps they are drunk on entertainment, and it's just TOO HARD to work on vintage cars or read a book? Or am I just being cynical?

FrankWest · 12-22-2015, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry's Lady's Man

Can it be that our young sprouts are too busy with their phones to care about our hobby? Perhaps they are drunk on entertainment, and it's just TOO HARD to work on vintage cars or read a book? Or am I just being cynical?

Your comments are very wise.
The new generation is not very handy at fixing things. In fact, they don't even want to try. They are a button pushing generation or even that is too much work for them..they are a finger waving generation with their touch screens and smart phones. They are definitely NOT "lets get our hands dirty generation." This fact coupled with the fact that they don't care for thing OLD , They always want the latest thing, not the oldest thing, is why they are not interested in anything old.

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 12-22-2015, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankWest

As time passes there probably be less and less demand. How is the demand for model T's

My opinion of your firearm analogy may be flawed. Put a firearm out in a cold, damp garage or barn and see how it deteriorates. On the flip side, put a Model-A inside your clean, climate-controlled house and see how well it does!

With regard to Model-Ts, ...their demand is likely just as strong, -if not stronger than the As are. There are 3 major contributing factors for the steady interest level. 1st, the pricing level is of such where they are affordable for any pocketbook. Generally speaking, the older the year model, the more $$ they fetch. For example, where a '27 Touring may be worth $7.5k, an '09 Touring is worth $50k. This allows an enthusiast to easily find one in their price range.
2nd, most Model-T owners are less 'picky' about how authentic their car is, -and more forgiving of their fellow T-owners unauthentic car. Many (i.e.: most) Model-A restorers are quick to "judge" another Model-A to see what is correct and what is not. 3rd, the Model-T clubs have done a great job of promoting touring with the family, and as such, it is easier to get a younger family involved in the hobby. As such, you often see 2 and sometimes 3 generations all on a Model-T tour together.

denis4x4 · 12-22-2015, 10:14 AM

Autoweek lists the best and worst cars for appreciation/depreciation. Model A's are neutral.

http://autoweek.com/article/classic-...n=awdailydrive

Jeff/Illinois · 12-22-2015, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry's Lady's Man

Can it be that our young sprouts are too busy with their phones to care about our hobby? Perhaps they are drunk on entertainment, and it's just TOO HARD to work on vintage cars or read a book? Or am I just being cynical?

You're not being cynical at all. Last summer our school took a group of high school kids that were in French class, to France. Plenty to see there in the way of history. Anyway one of the chapperones told us that whenever she would look around the bus, NOT ONE SINGLE kid was looking out the window at the scenery or thinking about what they were visiting. EVERY single one had their nose stuck in an I-Phone laughing and showing each other things they had found. Finger swiping and tapping the phone screen. Not one paid any attention to why they were there.

Pathetic.

burner31 · 12-22-2015, 10:32 AM

Notice how the "decreases" were in your average cars, while the "increase" were in Porsche, Aston Martin, Ferrari and Lamborghini

This tells me the "increases" were driven by big money, disposal money, and not your average Joe collectors disdain for pre-war or classic vehicles, and there are way way more Average Joe's then there are the richy Rich collectors, this indicates a slump in the funds available to the average Joe to buy the collector/hobby car.
I still see this as an economic issue rather then a demand/desirability issue.

denis4x4 · 12-22-2015, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burner31

I still see this as an economic issue rather then a demand/desirability issue.

Bingo!

Jeff/Illinois · 12-22-2015, 10:42 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by burner31

Notice how the "decreases" were in your average cars, while the "increase" were in Porsche, Aston Martin, Ferrari and Lamborghini

This tells me the "increases" were driven by big money, disposal money, and not your average Joe collectors disdain for pre-war or classic vehicles, and there are way way more Average Joe's then there are the richy Rich collectors, this indicates a slump in the funds available to the average Joe to buy the collector/hobby car.
I still see this as an economic issue rather then a demand/desirability issue.

You make a good point Keith and are probably correct to a large degree.

If you want to read some startling news about the forecasted American economy check out Malcolm Berko's thoughts on where we are heading because of what has been happening the last few years. The spring of 2017 is going to be the start of some pretty rough times for most of us. Granted Economics is a blurred 'science' but Malcolm Berko has been pretty accurate in all the years I've read his columns in the papers. Hope he's wrong on this one

burner31 · 12-22-2015, 10:46 AM

I can see another big depression coming, like a car down a dusty road (hard to miss), maybe that's why I got me a Model A, if we are going into a depression...might as well dress the part.

pgerhardt · 12-22-2015, 10:48 AM

Benny123 · 12-22-2015, 11:06 AM

Interesting thread. I agree, I think demand is sluggish for them. I had a conversation with some guys in the MAC club yesterday and it seems like most people will buy the cars they grew up with. For the most part now, thats baby boomers and muscle cars. I really hope demand doesnt fall off as those who grew up with the model A begin to become more scarce. Honestly I would have not thought to buy one unless there was already one in the family, which was the case. Us gen xers grew up with cars that are basically sedans, [read as Camry and Civic] so we have to go back a few decades to find something of interest.
That said, they are approaching 100 years old in the next few decades, and I do suspect that will mean something for the value. My value is in family ownership, but it may never reach appreciated financial value. They also turn heads on a dime, which is of interest. When mine was unloaded 3 people working in lawn service stood in reverence, mouths agape.

mhsprecher · 12-22-2015, 04:56 PM

This is an endless debate and there is truth to most everything that has been written.

I see both positives and negatives. The Model A community has two excellent and very active clubs, which means there are lots of Model A owners out there. There are also a number of suppliers for parts and all manner of publications to tell you how to work on the cars. A fabulous resource. Most Model A owners are getting pretty old, but there are younger people coming along who are buying the cars. Not a lot, but a few. My 27 y.o. son loves my Model As and loves working on them, but he is one of the few of his cohort group, it seems.

Tastes do change. The antique market is pretty soft. Some things, like china and furniture, don't bring good prices. I had a nice set of old Haviland china from an estate and I asked the appraiser what it might bring? It would be good for target practice, he said. Younger people don't want anything that can't be put in a microwave or a dish washer.

I am a child of the 60s and my first driveable car was a 56 Chevy. I liked the car, but I have little interest in buying a replacement.

I bought my first Model A since I was a teenager in the last few years when I had time, some spare cash and a garage to keep it in. I see a few guys in their 50s starting to buy them plus a few in their 30s. We will see what happens. None of us has much control over this other than sharing our enthusiasm for these cars and teaching people about them.

JohnB15632 · 12-22-2015, 05:17 PM

In my case, this is my retirement project. I was lucky to get my Model A for free. I will never get back what I am putting into it. Oh well, it sure is a cool project!!!!!

burner31 · 12-22-2015, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnB15632

In my case, this is my retirement project. I was lucky to get my Model A for free. I will never get back what I am putting into it. Oh well, it sure is a cool project!!!!!

Free?...Free you say?

How about you sell it to me and I will double your money...guaranteed

slackcat · 12-23-2015, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdave_mcc

My opinion...and this comes from a recent lengthy conversation with a gentleman in the business of buying and selling antique cars...He said the people out there that have the money to pay top dollar for cars are either older people, or guys who don't have time to work on cars all the time and want something they can get in and drive to wherever they want, long trips or whatever...hot rodded stuff or antiques with small blocks is where the money is being spent right now. Not saying there aren't people out there that still like a stock model A. That's just where the market is right now.

I'll second your opinion. My wife and I live in the country, have more than enough money, but spend most of our hours working. Our A coupe and T speedster seldom see the road when compared to our '66 F85 and '64 Comet. Traffic today is unforgiving and it takes too long to go anywhere. The speedster is neater than shit but I can no longer rationalize keeping it and going to sell it to fund the Comet build. We love the stock A but am working on the wife to go a different direction.

Basically boils down to lack of time.

ronn · 12-23-2015, 09:37 AM

The big surprise for me on the drop list is the BMW 2002

thought they were still going gangbusters..............!

Rene R · 12-23-2015, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Traffic today is unforgiving

This is a big issue in my opinion.

I was a member of MAFCA 3 years before I was old enough to drive. I bought my first Model A in 1974 and drove it for years. I never thought twice about driving it for hours on the freeway.

In more recent years I have grown increasingly nervous driving my latest A, much as I truly loved it. I long since stopped driving on the highway, it was simply too scary with cars zipping around me at insane speeds. It's one thing to be able to drive 65, it's something else to stop at that speed with skinny 21" tires and mechanical brakes, even though they were in excellent shape and adjusted properly.

But even the back roads around town have become problematic. For years I made daily runs to the local post office, where I had a PO Box for my home-based business, and except for bad weather I always drove the A. One day I was too lazy to pull it out of the garage and hopped into my Honda instead. Barely a mile later I was rear-ended while stopped at a crosswalk, by someone in a Dodge Ram who was distracted while texting on a cell phone (yes, the police reported spelled it out). The driver never even touched the brakes before ramming into me at 40mph. My car was thrown 25' onto a sidewalk. It was totaled and I was seriously injured, and still suffer from it almost 7 years later. The point of this long rambling story? I can't stop thinking about what would have happened to me if I'd been in the Ford that day, as I normally would have been. The car would have collapsed into kindling and I wouldn't be here to talk about it.

That incident colored my thinking for the next few years whenever I would drive the A. Then this year I had to undergo a couple of neck surgeries, in part resulting from that accident. I was left with restricted range of motion, making it hard to turn to look at traffic around me -- already difficult enough in a blindback Fordor. I finally realized that it was time for me to accept reality and let my treasure go. I was no longer able to handle it safely.

That's when I found how weak the market was. Long story short, I opted to simply donate the car to the California Auto Museum in Sacramento. Not an ideal ending but definitely a feel-good one.

2manycars · 12-23-2015, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rene R

This is a big issue in my opinion.

I was a member of MAFCA 3 years before I was old enough to drive. I bought my first Model A in 1974 and drove it for years. I never thought twice about driving it for hours on the freeway.

In more recent years I have grown increasingly nervous driving my latest A, much as I truly loved it. I long since stopped driving on the highway, it was simply too scary with cars zipping around me at insane speeds. It's one thing to be able to drive 65, it's something else to stop at that speed with skinny 21" tires and mechanical brakes, even though they were in excellent shape and adjusted properly.

But even the back roads around town have become problematic. For years I made daily runs to the local post office, where I had a PO Box for my home-based business, and except for bad weather I always drove the A. One day I was too lazy to pull it out of the garage and hopped into my Honda instead. Barely a mile later I was rear-ended while stopped at a crosswalk, by someone in a Dodge Ram who was distracted while texting on a cell phone (yes, the police reported spelled it out). The driver never even touched the brakes before ramming into me at 40mph. My car was thrown 25' onto a sidewalk. It was totaled and I was seriously injured, and still suffer from it almost 7 years later. The point of this long rambling story? I can't stop thinking about what would have happened to me if I'd been in the Ford that day, as I normally would have been. The car would have collapsed into kindling and I wouldn't be here to talk about it.

That incident colored my thinking for the next few years whenever I would drive the A. Then this year I had to undergo a couple of neck surgeries, in part resulting from that accident. I was left with restricted range of motion, making it hard to turn to look at traffic around me -- already difficult enough in a blindback Fordor. I finally realized that it was time for me to accept reality and let my treasure go. I was no longer able to handle it safely.

That's when I found how weak the market was. Long story short, I opted to simply donate the car to the California Auto Museum in Sacramento. Not an ideal ending but definitely a feel-good one.

That pretty much sums up the situation these days. I live in the country and can still drive my tudor with some degree of confidence, but it makes me nervous to drive on the state roads, and I would not go on the highways like I used to when people drove slower and watched where they were going. I haave a few MGs and they will keep up with traffic,and will stop well, but they are small, and the giant SUVs worry me. I find that I drive these collectable cars less and less as time goes on. I was looking at photos of model A wrecks on my computer the other day, and they really fold up and squash the people inside in a serious crash. I would never have a rumble seat car again, and the rear seat in a sedan is also a dangerous place. I still like to drive around town, and my son borrows Charis's roadster pickup for the summer, and he also lives in the country where he can enjoy the back roads.

Steve_Mack_CT · 12-23-2015, 01:24 PM

Yep, CT is brutal. We limit our "A" driving to early Sunday mornings and carefully selected back roads in the area. I would imagine the "T" Speedster, when finished, will see even more limits - neighborhood and local parade usage unless we trailer to somewhere to participate in a group event. I bought that car to have something to build, and driving it is not that important to me. It might even end up in the basement with my gas and oil stuff. I am a big MG fan also but when we wanted a sports/GT type car we went with the Mercedes SL due to a bit more bulk and power in part for comfort on long runs but also to have a fighting chance with today's traffic. That car sees a lot of weekend use.

So I can kind of see the logic Slackcat is using. Wife and I are still working FT and lots of hours, so time is limited. In fact, I shelved the speedster project due to having no time to restore or build as planned. Keeping it though, as something I really want to do eventually. So we bought the "A" because even if we don't use extensively, my main interest is still in prewar cars. The roadster feels more agile than the tudor we had, it is a tad quicker and easy to see around, which does make it easier in traffic.

But back to values and demand. Couple of observations on age - At least half the T people I have networked with are younger than I am, and a lot of speedster projects going on out there. This is tied I think, to the sportiness of a speedster as well as the resurgence in brass cars in general - a good way to get into that era without spending $$$ for a 40 HP big brass car. We wanted (still do) to see if we liked brass era cars.

In Model "A"s - if I think about the 5 or 6 closest to me in town, all but one belong to an owner plus or minus my age of 52, so not everyone my age is into musclecars only.

Ronn, I find it hard to believe the BMW 2002 is not appreciating. That would buck a general trend on 60s - 70s Euro cars that a lot of collectors NOT into American Muscle like. Did you ever sell your SL? Got my Hagerty renewal suggesting I add to the coverage on mine as it is a "quickly appreciating colector car" while they made no such suggestion for the Fords. I think that is correct, these cars are flat, IMO, have been since we got our first A in 2001. But flat is fine with me, I don't plan on funding my retirement with these - or the SL for that matter.

I think an improved economy might see appreciation for the Model A, especially top cars and body styles. Short of that my guess is the market looks like it does now, seems like a good car at a good price (those who follow the market know what's reasonable I think, in most cases) will sell. Long time A people likely recall when these commanded a bit more - especially when figuring in inflation, but this cycle is not unusual in the market. I saw a really respectable looking '57 T-Bird on CL yesterday for $20K - in my back yard. Dang....

Rene R · 12-23-2015, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2manycars

I would not go on the highways like I used to when people drove slower and watched where they were going.

This brings up something else I've noted over the years. Aside from today's cars having much more acceleration and speed than those of the 70s, when I was driving my A on the freeway, we are also dealing with a vastly increased number of drivers who are distracted and not watching what they're doing. A lot of people are overconfident with the safety of their high-tech new cars and take risks they might not have done 40 years ago.

The other thing about driving a distinctive antique car today is that I find myself running into two sorts of people. First are the ones who see any old car and become aggressive, making damn well sure that they won't get stuck behind some geezer in a slow jalopy. I've had some scary close calls with people passing dangerously and cutting me off to get around me. On the opposite extreme there are the people who absolutely love the car, to the point of not watching the road because they are staring so intently at my car. That's almost as scary as the first scenario. I'm glad (some) people appreciate old cars but it makes me nervous seeing the guy ahead of me intent on his rear-view mirror rather than his windshield.

That said, I am guilty of the same distraction whenever I see any cool antique car on the roads today.

It's hard not to get excited by such a rare sighting.

burner31 · 12-23-2015, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rene R

This brings up something else I've noted over the years. Aside from today's cars having much more acceleration and speed than those of the 70s, when I was driving my A on the freeway, we are also dealing with a vastly increased number of drivers who are distracted and not watching what they're doing. A lot of people are overconfident with the safety of their high-tech new cars and take risks they might not have done 40 years ago.

The other thing about driving a distinctive antique car today is that I find myself running into two sorts of people. First are the ones who see any old car and become aggressive, making damn well sure that they won't get stuck behind some geezer in a slow jalopy. I've had some scary close calls with people passing dangerously and cutting me off to get around me. On the opposite extreme there are the people who absolutely love the car, to the point of not watching the road because they are staring so intently at my car. That's almost as scary as the first scenario. I'm glad (some) people appreciate old cars but it makes me nervous seeing the guy ahead of me intent on his rear-view mirror rather than his windshield.

That said, I am guilty of the same distraction whenever I see any cool antique car on the roads today.

It's hard not to get excited by such a rare sighting.

So true to all of it, that's one reason why I installed the LED tail lights, third brake light, turn signals and I drive with my high beams on...YOU WILL SEE ME!
I used to follow that old credo "loud pipes save lives" when I rode my Harley, running straight pipes for 45 years...people did hear me coming and going.
But I'm not real keen on that idea with my Model A

TonyM · 12-23-2015, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois

Terry mentioned street rod values...... although I don't follow them a buddy that does told me once that you can really take a 'bath' on selling a street rod, that you can and will loose a ton of cash.

You see it in Hemmings and other markets all the time:

"Have over $80,000 in receipts, Just finished it. $45,000 or make offer."

I just don't understand how these street rod guys spend all that time and money to build a street rod and then sell it just a few months after completing the project. They need the money for next street rod build. The cycle continues.

burner31 · 12-23-2015, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyM

You see it in Hemmings and other markets all the time:

"Have over $80,000 in receipts, Just finished it. $45,000 or make offer."

I just don't understand how these street rod guys spend all that time and money to build a street rod and then sell it just a few months after completing the project. They need the money for next street rod build. The cycle continues.

Easy to explain..."It's a mental disorder"
You don't have to take an original car and "hack n hue", "chop n channel" it to make a rod, you can do the same thing with fiberglass and it looks just the same.

But there is help...For just $19.95 a month you can help these poor souls overcome this debilitating condition.

So please give generously to the:

"Right the Rodder's Back to Reality Campaign"
Together...We can find a cure

FrankWest · 12-23-2015, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

My opinion of your firearm analogy may be flawed. Put a firearm out in a cold, damp garage or barn and see how it deteriorates. On the flip side, put a Model-A inside your clean, climate-controlled house and see how well it does!

With regard to Model-Ts, ...their demand is likely just as strong, -if not stronger than the As are. There are 3 major contributing factors for the steady interest level. 1st, the pricing level is of such where they are affordable for any pocketbook. Generally speaking, the older the year model, the more $$ they fetch. For example, where a '27 Touring may be worth $7.5k, an '09 Touring is worth $50k. This allows an enthusiast to easily find one in their price range.
2nd, most Model-T owners are less 'picky' about how authentic their car is, -and more forgiving of their fellow T-owners unauthentic car. Many (i.e.: most) Model-A restorers are quick to "judge" another Model-A to see what is correct and what is not. 3rd, the Model-T clubs have done a great job of promoting touring with the family, and as such, it is easier to get a younger family involved in the hobby. As such, you often see 2 and sometimes 3 generations all on a Model-T tour together.

Nobody stores a classic firearm in a garage or attic for that matter.
What I was stating was that a car, any car is a large complicated machine that needs lots of car..It is unlike a classic firearm which you can oil and hang on your mantel.

Vonn Ditch · 12-23-2015, 04:24 PM

Restored Model A's or T's no longer hold any interest for me. I wouldn't build one or buy one at any price. What does excite me these days are original survivor cars and traditional model a hot rods either from the period or built to mirror the early hot rod days. So from my perspective I see much less interest in restoration.

jim galli · 12-23-2015, 04:56 PM

Fun to read through most of these thoughts. First of all, there were about a billion '29 roadsters made. They're just a notch above tudor sedans on the trip the needle desire scale. I'm on my fifth. Absolutely love them, but they are what they are. So there's that.

Second, a phenomenon we saw 20 years ago and continue to see; We were post-war Lionel collector-operators at that time, and the internet did a number on the prices of that stuff. Who knew there were so many Lionel outfits!! I think it's had a big affect on Model A's also. First of all, there's so many other pretty things to look at that can do 60 all day long and not self destruct, and second of all, my goodness, there's a LOT of Model A's.

CarlG · 12-23-2015, 05:15 PM

Model A was my first car. Probably be my last as well!

My1930ModelA · 12-24-2015, 08:11 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rene R

This brings up something else I've noted over the years. Aside from today's cars having much more acceleration and speed than those of the 70s, when I was driving my A on the freeway, we are also dealing with a vastly increased number of drivers who are distracted and not watching what they're doing. A lot of people are overconfident with the safety of their high-tech new cars and take risks they might not have done 40 years ago.

The other thing about driving a distinctive antique car today is that I find myself running into two sorts of people. First are the ones who see any old car and become aggressive, making damn well sure that they won't get stuck behind some geezer in a slow jalopy. I've had some scary close calls with people passing dangerously and cutting me off to get around me. On the opposite extreme there are the people who absolutely love the car, to the point of not watching the road because they are staring so intently at my car. That's almost as scary as the first scenario. I'm glad (some) people appreciate old cars but it makes me nervous seeing the guy ahead of me intent on his rear-view mirror rather than his windshield.

That said, I am guilty of the same distraction whenever I see any cool antique car on the roads today.

It's hard not to get excited by such a rare sighting.

How true this is, I remember back in the '70s, driving on the freeway I would frequently see cars of the late '50s traveling to shows and events. Beautiful sights they were, the magnificent Forward Look Mopars, Cadillacs, Continentals, etc. Nowadays it is extremely rare to see one of these cars on the road, or at a car show period for that matter.

ronn · 12-24-2015, 08:25 AM

"Fun to read through most of these thoughts. First of all, there were about a billion '29 roadsters made."

think Pluck would disagree on that number.........

now talking about cheeseburgers sold through ronald.....................that's another story!

slackcat · 12-26-2015, 08:54 AM

As to the spirit of the thread, demand is relative to price(or vise versa) and both are subject to disposable income. To a certain degree.

I need a grant to study how the value of a Model A is a reflection of the overall economy.

burner31 · 12-26-2015, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slackcat

As to the spirit of the thread, demand is relative to price(or vise versa) and both are subject to disposable income. To a certain degree.

I need a grant to study how the value of a Model A is a reflection of the overall economy.

That may sound nutty, but I would not be surprised if Uncle Sammy threw a few hundred thousand into a valuable study like that.
If you do get the grant give me a call, I would love to do my internship in that field of study.

mike657894 · 12-26-2015, 11:58 AM

my model a was given to me but not the first car/truck offered to me from a relative. i passed on a 59 edsel ranger and a 48 jeep body on a 64 chassis. I took on the model A because of parts availability and cheap cost. I also so love the look of a car with running boards. but dont know if i would have taken on a buick or packard. knowing that parts are probably hard to find and expensive. when someone hands you an old neglected car that needs a little bit of everything it will cost a lot of money and time.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 12-26-2015, 12:44 PM

We tend to become like the "RUFFIANS" we hang with---Hang around with A Model Guys & shortly, YOU OWN ONE!
Bill W.

Skibb · 12-26-2015, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlG

Model A was my first car. Probably be my last as well!

Same here .....

Jeff/Illinois · 12-27-2015, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slackcat

As to the spirit of the thread, demand is relative to price(or vise versa) and both are subject to disposable income. To a certain degree.

I need a grant to study how the value of a Model A is a reflection of the overall economy.

Good thoughts. Today's paper's article by Malcolm Berko the Financial Advisor mirrors what's being said here. He states though, that for every 'Economist' and their predictions there is an 'Anti-Economist' that will argue the opposite. Very true. But he did say again that the U.S. economy is poised for a Recession in the next 12 months, and he explains 'why' very well. But it always bounces back eventually so no need to fret and wring your hands.

He DID state that the REAL number of unemployed folks between the ages of 18-35 are actually 37% not the 5% we are constantly lied to about. That would have an affect on collector car values! It was something like 28% during the Great Depression but today politicians and the press play magician with the truth so that we don't panic. They lie to us (surprise huh

So, I guess the thing to do is bank your cash and wait because if you want to snag a good deal on (fill in the blank what car you like) it's right around the corner! bad for the seller.

Terry, NJ · 12-27-2015, 08:40 PM

I submit it to all, that there are MORE model A s (and T s) around now than there were 20 years ago. The source of this is the barns of America. I would estimate approximately 100 a year are released from hiding, unseen and unknown about for maybe 60 years. Then suddenly they're back. If I'm correct with my estimate, that would be another 2000 cars in existence. So that's 2000 more cars to be restored and swallowed up in a market that some believe is diminishing. Think about it! Prices are rising!
Terry

Colin Farquhar · 12-29-2015, 12:21 AM

Not wishing to start a fire, but I, for one, would welcome prices continuing to fall on Model A's. With a young family and a number of volunteer hobbies/causes I'm involved with (no extra time for a second job), spending $10-15k on a Model A certainly isn't in the cards right now. Buying a parts-pile for $500 could happen, but that turns into a time issue (pretty busy looking after lots of other rusty metal). Granted-these are all my own problems, of my own causing.

While I will certainly agree that a number of people my age (I'm 32) would have next-to-no interest in an 85 year old car or truck, there are a few of us around who are still into rusty old metal

That said, I can't help but feel that many people of my generation are in a similar situation, even if we do have a decent job. Cost of living (housing, student loans, food, etc) keeps going up all the time...

Some random thoughts.

Steve_Mack_CT · 12-29-2015, 11:01 AM

That is understandable, Colin; although I do think pretty good deals are already available to one with patience willing to turn some stones over. I also think with your generation physical location is another factor, a lot of younger people are interested in urban life, and even those who may not be it seems are buying real estate a little later on. This alone is a big factor in terms of getting into the hobby.

We are in a semi-rural place now and recently toyed with getting a little more in town. One of the main reasons it won't be happening is the desire/need to park 5 cars which in some areas is just not practical. There are other considerations besides the initial cost of a car that adds expense to this hobby I think a lot of times gets glossed over - ample proper storage is a big one in addition to ongoing maintenance costs, etc. I think, like horses, it is a little easier to be in this hobby in a more rural location. Not that city folks cannot participate, but just one of those things. I used to keep my TR-6 across town at grandmas when we got our first house, it had no garage, but not everyone has an option like that and self storage can be pretty expensive.

BTW, I suspect you already know this but what matters, Colin, is what interests you, not what the other 95% of those under say 40 are doing, I believe, from my interactions with Model A, T, Full Classic and sports car people that plenty of younger people have an interest. May not be most, but does it really matter as long as you have comeraderie of others regardless of age group? That market, whatever it turns out to be will determine long term values.

29er · 01-04-2016, 07:12 PM

Somebody from our local club sent me this link which I thought germane to the current thread. Some of you may be familiar with this dealership, but it was news to me. As many of you suggest, the not-so-antique cars seem popular, but imagine the A's that could be purchased for these prices:

http://www.rkmotorscharlotte.com/sal...ory/active#21/

Mike

bikejunk · 01-04-2016, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois

Good thoughts. Today's paper's article by Malcolm Berko the Financial Advisor mirrors what's being said here. He states though, that for every 'Economist' and their predictions there is an 'Anti-Economist' that will argue the opposite. Very true. But he did say again that the U.S. economy is poised for a Recession in the next 12 months, and he explains 'why' very well. But it always bounces back eventually so no need to fret and wring your hands.

He DID state that the REAL number of unemployed folks between the ages of 18-35 are actually 37% not the 5% we are constantly lied to about. That would have an affect on collector car values! It was something like 28% during the Great Depression but today politicians and the press play magician with the truth so that we don't panic. They lie to us (surprise huh

So, I guess the thing to do is bank your cash and wait because if you want to snag a good deal on (fill in the blank what car you like) it's right around the corner! bad for the seller.

Where I work kids between the ages 18 - 35 all have jobs but none of them work

11-17-2015, 10:28 AM	#1
mrtexas Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sugar Land, TX Posts: 4,395	Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? I recently sold my freshly restored 29 roadster. I had been advertising for 3 months in Hemmings, Fordbarn, my own website, Craigslist, and both Model A magazines. I cut out the crap on price and priced it a couple thousand $$ less than any other roadster out there. I couldn't find any 29 roadster out there for sale with a fresh restoration including new single stage paint, new lebarron bonney interior, new $2k brake rebuild, a nut and bolt restoration etc. The competition was asking $22-30k. The other ones were older restorations. I was astounded that all I got in 3 months was 1 phone call from Hemmings online and one text message after it came out in The Restorer. Happily the phone call was local to me and the buyer bought it 15 minutes after he left after looking at it. He paid the asking price as it was already ridiculously low vs anything out there. It was however the least I would take. I need the space. This sure stirred me up on how I will bargain for buying another antique car! No point in getting into a hurry or paying the asking price! Sure enough I'm getting another car this Friday but not a Model A. It is a Ford v8 woodie where there is more demand(however I see an increasing number of woodies for sale in "Woodie Times"). Everyone loves a woodie! Doubt I'll lose money if I ever sell as I bought it right for once. I've also been looking at a restored but not "correct" in many ways 1955 Corvette for sale. It is priced at nose bleed levels but the seller hasn't had anyone come to look see after several months for sale. I've seen a similar car listed at 2x his elevated asking price. I view a 1950s car as a depreciating item. Those that want 1950s cars are getting up in age as well. I hear the same complaint about demand for 1960s C2 corvettes on the corvette forum(I own a 63 convertible). I don't see many 1950s cars or older in the televised auctions. Apparently the action at least for auction cars is mostly 1970s and 1980s! I hope this doesn't still the pot too much. But it is my experience and MHO! Is it me or is there little demand for Model As? Going the was of Model Ts? BTW I'll have a very good quality freshly restored early 1928 open cab pickup with multi-disc clutch for sale shortly!

11-17-2015, 11:00 AM	#5
Seth Swoboda Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 3,795	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? I'll add that I don't believe the economy has improved any either. I have two early ford projects that I can start on (1941 pickup and a 1946 3 passenger coupe) but any spare cash I have had lately I throw at my IRA. For folks who work an 8-5 job be it skilled labor or professional salaried work, the take home pay is not going up, generally speaking. Confidence in the economy is not strong for most folks and the last thing these people are going to do is spend money on a luxury item like an antique car. Everything is cyclical, I'm optimistic about the future.

11-17-2015, 11:07 AM	#6
Aok Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Tx Posts: 502	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I use to fix up and sell old Plymouths mostly late 40's - early 50's. Wont comment on price as that is always changing but distance is always a factor with todays busy life styles many people do not want to travel a great distance to but a vehicle and one like you were selling would need to be seen before purchase so that cuts you buyers down . Other problem I have seen is everyone expects to make a profit and when you put a lot of money in a vehicle you own for pleasure you cannot always get back what you put into it.

11-17-2015, 11:40 AM	#8
Mikeinnj Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 1,262	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? It sounds like your in the business of flipping cars for profit. I just enjoy owning a piece of history and will continue to do so until I gat to an age or physical condition that prohibits me from doing so and then I will sell all my "stuff" so as not to have it become a burden to my family as i have often seen with fellow "collectors".

11-17-2015, 11:47 AM	#9
burner31 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Shawnee, Ok Posts: 3,471	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? Strongly agree with Seth, AOK and Mitch __________________ Keith Shawnee OK '31 SW 160-B

11-17-2015, 10:39 AM	#2
bdave_mcc Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: McCalla, AL Posts: 181	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? My opinion...and this comes from a recent lengthy conversation with a gentleman in the business of buying and selling antique cars...He said the people out there that have the money to pay top dollar for cars are either older people, or guys who don't have time to work on cars all the time and want something they can get in and drive to wherever they want, long trips or whatever...hot rodded stuff or antiques with small blocks is where the money is being spent right now. Not saying there aren't people out there that still like a stock model A. That's just where the market is right now.

11-17-2015, 10:53 AM	#3
burner31 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Shawnee, Ok Posts: 3,471	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? I would think the economy is having a big impact on Model A and other iconic automobiles when it comes to buying/selling. (I will not address the rich) For the general public...these are hard times, those of us who are able to even contemplate buying an exotic vehicle (toy) have disposable income and are doing much better than most, we are blessed...truly blessed. If it helps, I see Models A demand increasing the closer they get to the 100 year mark, as the economy improves, so will demand. Though things can get worse, I'm hoping they will start getting better in say...13 months __________________ Keith Shawnee OK '31 SW 160-B

11-17-2015, 10:58 AM	#4
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? there are many different levels and meanings of what a complete restoration is.. beauty is in the eye of the beholder. this will affect what a particular car brings in terms of value i see there is plenty of demand from barn find to driver to concourse restoration..where i see the problem usually lies is where the price are not matched appropriately to what is being sold.. Last edited by Mitch//pa; 11-17-2015 at 11:42 AM.

11-17-2015, 12:00 PM	#11
Great Lakes Greg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,369	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? I sold three A's this past spring. I broke even on a coupe and a cabriolet, both nice drivers. I took an absolute bath on a nice '30 phaeton, but knew that would be the case. The sale price was about half of what I restored it for. That's the game, and I will continue to play (pay) it.

11-17-2015, 12:39 PM	#12
mshmodela Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 2,763	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? I understand no one wishes to loose on an investment but Model A's are not really an investment tier car... I will say they do keep their value better than most car 10 years old or less, so looking at it that way, enjoy your Model A as it's less lossy than your modern daily driver __________________ -Mike Late 31' Ford Model A Tudor, Miss Daisy I don't work on cars --I'm learning about my Model A. Cleveland, Ohio Last edited by mshmodela; 11-17-2015 at 02:30 PM.

11-17-2015, 12:44 PM	#13
700rpm Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 5,906	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? I sold my restored 1965 VW 21-window bus five years ago for $10k so I could buy a nice older restoration 1930 A pickup. My bus sold a year later for $15k, and went to Florida. Two years after that, it sold again for $25k, and I heard last week it was for sale again for $50k, and my source thought that was a bargain! Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I have put about $5k into the truck to get it the way I want it, and it would probably sell for about $13,500. A prices are pretty flat, and VW bus prices are ridiculous. __________________ Ray Horton, Portland, OR As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.

11-17-2015, 12:58 PM	#14
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? It also could be the time of year. Winter's coming. People may not want to ship/store a "new" vehicle if the weather looks/is terrible. I also agree that the economy still sucks. JMO Paul in CT

11-17-2015, 12:59 PM	#15
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? Just a few antique vehicle Price Experiences: Experience No. 1: In 1958 I went to our NAPA Parts Store 10 miles away to buy Model A points for 20 cents. The owner spent about an hour trying to explain to this teenager ahead of me to look for a "better" 1939 Ford in "good" shape rather than try to restore his wrecked, junk 1939 Ford because it was going to cost him a fortune to restore it and he would "never" recover "half" of what he spent in parts and paint ...... as usual, it went in one ear & exited the other ear when he said he would buy it anyway. After the teenager finally departed , the old NAPA owner told me to never forget this about "Advice": Advice is never worth much: "Intelligent people do not need it ...... damn fools never take it." Experience No. 2: About 12 years ago I called about six (6) transport companies asking how much it cost to transport a Model A if I bought one out of state. First experienced trucker warned to never pay anything near the asking price ....... he said Model A sellers "never" get anything near what they ask for ...... and, after asking the remaining five (5) truckers about transport and selling price ...... same tune ...... never pay asking price. Experience No.3: Later I saw an add for my present 1930 Briggs Town Sedan for sale in another State. It had been up for sale only on the internet, for about (3) years, with what was told, many lookers & no buyers. It had been in heated storage for the last 30 years w/good wood, upholstery, & paint from a former "minor" cosmetic restoration. After having owned & driven a Model A for the past 50 years, I drove this one, returned, and contemplated on above Experiences No. 1 and No. 2 as I drove this Model A. I rejected advice in Experience No. 2, followed advice in experience No. 1, and I offered him only the "asking" price ...... we were both happy ...... glad I did ..... about 15 minutes later, I found out both his young son & daughter-in-law were departing for Iraq in 2 weeks, and gramps & his wife had come down from New York to Fort Hood, Texas to take care of the grandkids while they both were in Iraq. Appears Advice offered for "Pricing is similar to Spice on a Spice Rack. Different flavors offered to fit one's likes and dislikes. Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 11-17-2015 at 01:03 PM. Reason: typo

11-17-2015, 01:02 PM	#17
Steve_Mack_CT Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Central CT Posts: 348	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? It seems to me Model As have been relatively stable in price for a long time - a good supply and decent demand at market prices. I do think the market is pretty slow on prewar non Fords (Fords in good bodystyles still have a following - at the correct price, A, T, V-8) but sound for Fords, brass cars and most Full Classics. Tough to say why certain cars take off as 700rpm points out. Not to criticize a VW bus, they are cool, but $50K? Insane, IMHO but the market disagrees. Same thing with air cooled Porsches and 190 SL MB. The 190 SL is a real mystery to me - nice enough to look at but under powered and ignored by MB enthusiasts forever - now more expensive than an XKE??! Strangely, I am a big German car fan but happened to rattle these three off. Maybe because I follow that market more. I guess a slow market is all the more reason to worry less about nicks and such and drive more! __________________ Steve 1930 Model A Roadster

11-17-2015, 01:15 PM	#18
holdover Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: SW Virginia near the Blue ridge Parkway Posts: 674	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? none of the vehicles I own were purchased as an investment, just for the pleasure of owning them. If you look at my late model vehicles that I bought new: 1996 F150 Eddie Bauer, 2002 Explorer XLT, 2003 Ranger 4X4, 2004 Ranger XLT 4X4 (wife,s truck) , 2005 Miata Speed, 2012 Escape AWD, and still have think how much money I have lost on those(at least 70K)! As to my "Toys" '29 Coupe, ,29 CCPU, '65 Mustang FB 289 4 speed, 1982 Jeep CJ7, 1992 Mustang 5.0 hatchback etc etc. They are just something to play in the garage with and take for a ride. If I kept score money wise I wouldn't be able to sleep at night. I am grateful that I have been blessed with the ability to have purchased these things and still keep everything else such as house, medical, kids college in balance. Sure I wish things were a bit cheaper than they are now, last time I looked at new ford pickups I got a taste of sticker shock! And I was just a working guy at Ma Bell with modest income. I'll say one thing vehicles have been my hobby since grade school, I would have more money in my IRAs if it wasn't for them, but I might not enjoy life as much. Being retired it is nice to jump into my '29 PU and drive down to the local store for a biscuit and cup of java, the ride doesn't feel the same in the Explorer Last edited by holdover; 11-17-2015 at 01:23 PM.

11-17-2015, 01:26 PM	#19
Jeff/Illinois Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,791	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? Ray, that has indeed been the trend with VW busses, the prices are going thru the roof for good ones. The Hippies from the 60's who condemned the Establishment and their $$, now are awash in cash themselves from structured corporate mergers, banking malfeasance, dope sales, whatever they do with their MBA's, and they want to spend on their memories 30-31 Roadsters, Phaetons, and Cabriolets seem to still do quite well. And the street rodders will be snapping them up as time goes by. '28-'29 Roadsters just don't bring as much money. And, you never recoup your money anyway we all know that. Don't look back, go out and have fun with whatever you like. Going to a funeral visitation tonite for a good friend (57) who collapsed in his home Sunday morning, went into a coma, and died. We never know from day to day. I'm sure when he woke up that day he didn't know he'd never see Sunday afternoon--------------

11-17-2015, 01:31 PM	#20
jim1932 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Hancock, MA Posts: 2,783	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? There is a difference between a "Flipper" and someone who likes to restore cars. For a lot of people, once you are done working on the car, the fun goes out of it. Other people like to own and drive the cars. Personal preference. I think there is also a lot of B.S. prices out there. Ads for cars that are posted at top dollar and they just wait to see if someone will bite. I see the same thing for parts. crazy money ads, and ads priced to actually sell. __________________ Short URL: http://smu.gs/14g7eDW

11-17-2015, 01:33 PM	#21
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? The car market has been GROSSLY SCREWED UP by all the crazy TV AUCTIONS, etc. WHAT is really REAL & how much is MADE UP, to get high TV RATINGS, so they can sell their advertising time for BIG BUCKS $$$$$$$$$$? Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

11-17-2015, 03:09 PM	#23
pooch Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: South Coast NSW Australia Posts: 2,596	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? I was astounded that all I got in 3 months was 1 phone call from Hemmings online and one text message after it came out in The Restorer. Happily the phone call was local to me and the buyer bought it 15 minutes after he left after looking at it. He paid the asking price as it was already ridiculously low vs anything out there. It was however the least I would take. I need the space. May I ask how old was the buyer......this may give a clue .

11-17-2015, 03:11 PM	#24
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 6,796	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? the mkt is soft for most American cars........... pretty much sums it up about our economy. Germany has been doing well financially and are buying back their "old" cars. as Steve said, the 190s, vws and porsches are on a tear.................. all overpriced in my opinion. listed 12 items on ebay last weekend- four were cars. sold one car........... buyer went mia. that is why I am only a buyer these days, nothing to sell unless you want to give it away.

11-17-2015, 03:18 PM	#25
Lefthander1930 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Roseville Ca. Posts: 141	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? Winter bad time to sell a roadster, great time to buy old cars from us seniors, 73 & still kicking

11-17-2015, 03:25 PM	#26
2manycars Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern CT Posts: 2,732	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I think the prices of the model A vary a lot, and probably should vary even more. A properly and accuratly restored model A might sell for 20 -25K, and it would cost twice or three times that to restore, so a good price. On the other hand, there are a lot of cars offered that are poor restorations, cosmetic resprays, odd colors, strange interiors, and so on, that are overpriced compared to correct cars. I looked at a coupe last week that was a solid car with a nice paint job, rebuilt motor, and new tires. It was one color green, no second color, a plastic tape stripe, poorly installed roof, really bad interior, and it sold for $11,500. A fair price, but imagine what it would cost to make the car what a restored one should be. Cheaper to buy the expensive one if one wants a correct car. If only looking for something to drive and have fun, then a good price. Another factor is the guy who recently died, and told his wife all those years that he was spending money on the car because it would be worth X, and now the family has the car offered for X or more, and it is sadly not worth that money. I found a really nice coupe, just what I am looking for, and the price was good, but it is on the other side of the country, so it would cost at least a couple thousand to get it here. As my father used to say, the car is worth what the buyer is willing to pay.

11-17-2015, 04:13 PM	#28
mshmodela Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 2,763	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? So if you want a unibody VW, open your wallet... they have their charm but a Model A for me has a lot more. __________________ -Mike Late 31' Ford Model A Tudor, Miss Daisy I don't work on cars --I'm learning about my Model A. Cleveland, Ohio

11-17-2015, 04:29 PM	#29
mhsprecher Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Takoma Park, MD Posts: 2,817	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? I have been lucky to buy a couple of Model As, old restorations, for pretty reasonable prices. I just bought two V8s and probably should have held out for the lower price I offered, but I liked them just too much. And they were local. None of this hundreds of miles to look at and fetch a car. I am still shocked by how much 30s V8s go for. I am also surprised at how reasonable non-Ford antiques are. As many have said, the Model A demographic is aging and that will probably affect prices. I grew up in the 60s and have no interest in a car from that era. I am not even so hot for 50s cars, but would own up to a 56 Ford. My first on the road car was a 56 Chevy and I have almost no interest in buying one of them. That is me. I have always done things a little differently. Mr. T, I am waiting for woodies to get cheaper. Model A woodies aren't too bad, but the 30s flatties are still to dear for this MBA who is still working.

11-17-2015, 06:12 PM	#30
barkleydave Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Kentucky Posts: 502	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? The car market has always been trendy... what is hot today...is cold tomorrow. I have bought my share of rides over the years. Never was a flipper so never made a dime.. but lost many more. Take out of the market what is selling on TV auctions and cut to the chase. My truck is probably worth more than I have in it... however not enough where I would sell for the profit. Now trading for something of equal value and condition is another matter. I like old cars! As an example I have a 57 MGA 1500 roadster in beautiful condition I have owned for 16 years. The restoration is older but looks almost as good as the day I completed it. It lives covered in a heated and air conditioned environment. I drive it occasionally to keep it happy and me... I would would like to trade for an equal Model A 1930/31 Tudor. Not because there is any reason to get rid of it other than... just a change. I work on my cars but am not a restorer. I am getting too old to invest in the skill set and the tools etc. My priority is to enjoy them on the road. Buy a car you want to enjoy. There is always a market for nice well maintained vehicles. If you overprice it your ad will go stale quickly. Market at a fair price and it will sell. I found the best buys are within our clubs from members you know and cars you have seen on the road on tours.

11-17-2015, 06:20 PM	#31
Slotblog Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Norcross, GA Posts: 242	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? The value of an old car is related pretty closely to supply and demand. On the supply side, Model As pretty much top the chart. The demand side is where the numbers are dropping. As I've claimed before, considering the changing value of money over time, the more common Model As have been shrinking in value for some time and I don't see that trend changing. I didn't buy my A for an investment, though there are some body styles that are holding their value quite well or even appreciating. Anyone following the greater collectible/old car market in recent years will have seen the incredible appreciation in value certain cars have achieved. IMO the more common cars that have less demand behind them are softening in value and I don't see that changing either. __________________ Gregory Wells

11-17-2015, 08:28 PM	#32
700rpm Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 5,906	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? I paid $125 for my Tudor in 1961. I spent about $1000 restoring it in 1980. Rebuilt the engine 4 years ago for $2200. I have spent more money on storage over 54 years than I have on the car! But I'm still ahead... I think. Anyway, I don't own the car anymore, it owns me. __________________ Ray Horton, Portland, OR As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.

11-18-2015, 07:15 AM	#33
updraught Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Australia Posts: 1,971	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? Those VW buses were good at damaging legs in an accident? A bit of tin and the VW badge with the drum brakes between you and the impact. I bet they didn't advertise that ... Last edited by updraught; 11-18-2015 at 09:37 AM.

11-18-2015, 08:40 AM	#34
Rowdy BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80 Posts: 4,893	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? While I have not tried to sell any completed cars, just parts. The economy still sucks. Things do not sell as fast as they did in 2005 that is for sure. There is still money to be made, just it takes longer. So dig your heels in and be patient. Rod __________________ Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!

11-18-2015, 09:18 AM	#35
Terry, NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks Co, Pa Posts: 3,740	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? It seems to me that A s and parts have gone way up like a rocket in the last two years. I saw a nice coupe brought home from Hershey for 19K, This guy never sells anything he doesn't make money on. Then I got my latest coupe for 8K, it's a very restorable #3 cond. with a good engine. I told my friend Ron, I'd sell coupe #2 (a30) for 9K if he finds someone. It's a low #3 but it runs ok and is a solid car that needs some body work and paint. This summer, He sold a 31 for 5500 that I wouldn't have touched for 2K, Didn't run, half the engine was missing. blah blah! You get the point. However, If you know someone who'd like a hotrod, he has one of those too. A muchly modified street car with a SBC (327) and a GM (400) auto, trans. Finished! Doesn't need anything! Mint green w/pinstriping. I'll send pics if anyone wants, can be yours for 35K Terry

11-18-2015, 09:56 AM	#36
Jeff/Illinois Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,791	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? Terry mentioned street rod values...... although I don't follow them a buddy that does told me once that you can really take a 'bath' on selling a street rod, that you can and will loose a ton of cash. They are preemo bucks if done right. So, in relation to what kind of dollars Model A Fords sell and buy for, I guess we are looking at not being bit as badly fooling with stock Model A's as you would a street rod. Street Rods have a lot wider 'spread' in dollars over a stock Model A. Also, some of those rods running around are just out right dangerous, they depend upon how skillful the builder is in welding, etc. etc. I watched a very rough '31 Roadster (negative #4 at the very best) sell at auction last Sept. for $7,000. It wasn't even good for a parts car in my opinion so you never know. Hadn't run since 1964, motor was froze up, no top, missing many parts just a ratty rusted shell on a stick

11-18-2015, 11:19 AM	#37
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? I, personally, would NEVER buy or sell another car on the Internet. I even received a $22,000.00 COUNTERFEIT check!! Read about it on MAFCA's SCAMS page! Also, when buying local, you can easily find out all the history of the car. Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

11-18-2015, 03:04 PM	#38
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 6,796	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? dig your heels in and be patient. Rod patience is a virtue that I just dont have and am not planning on "learning"..........

11-18-2015, 03:35 PM	#39
Sunnybrook Farm Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Virginia Posts: 409	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? If one looks at some real new sources rather than the ones that read what the government issues, we and the world have just entered a recession and the graphs look very much like they did just prior to 2008. Most people have become scared to put out a lot of money, things are not good just look at Caterpillar which is a good global indicator. I am fixing up an A to drive as I can't afford to buy another car and I need something I can work on rather than pay a mechanic. I don't have a clue how to work on my 10 year old car that is starting to fail. Luckily I live in a rural area where I can drive at Model A speeds to get to town.

11-18-2015, 03:49 PM	#40
Pinesdune Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Canada Posts: 414	Re: Not much demand for Model As at any price or is it antique cars in general? It seems things are about the same up here, most cars that are bringing the buck$ are the ones that the baby boomer generation dreamed of owning/driving. Solid classics left original or restored just don't have much demand as most people don't have the common sense/knowhow to make an old car run and keep it maintained. The saddest point I've noticed is that due to the lowering of interest (and dollar value) in model A's and cars like her, is that way too often, good original cars are getting bought and chopped into hotrods because it's the "in" thing. If they're in the right hands and get completed, is one thing, but way too often it's some weekend warrior who tears them apart/chops them up and leaves them for dead and to me, that's sacrilegious!