time for another whitewall rant......

[Chris in WNC]

Originally Posted by Phil

Man you are hung up on white walls! Love them or hate either is fine. Why is it necessary to push your unwanted opinion of someone else's car. Like my momma always said "if you can't say something to someone, don't say anything at all". Just be nice it doesn't cost a thing.

yes, I confess to being "hung up" on whitewalls, as are MANY of our fellow Model Aers on both sides of this option.

but read my previous statements carefully: I'm not trying to "push" my opinion on someone else's car.

I'm just curious why those who wrote the Tour Class standards did not opt to make a small deduction. do any of those folks care to add to this exchange?

a few years ago I questioned the wisdom of allowing Tour Class cars to be trailered to meets rather than driven. one of the Tour Class committee members responded, with a very satisfactory rationale for allowing it.

remember, all my peeing & moaning about whitewalls on Model As is very sincere but intended to be fun. neither side can really come up with any justification for their position beyond "I like the way mine looks better"

[Bruce Adams]

Originally Posted by Greg Jones

In my collection of stuff i have an original Ford ad for the 1930 Cabriolet. The picture of the Cab shows it has whitewalls on it, inside and out. I assume it is a Ford Corporation ad for the time, but maybe it was an ad placed by one of the branches or other dealers? I am out of the US at the moment but when I get home will scan it and post it. After all, you can't have too many discussions about whitewalls, nondetergent oil, modern point plates, babbitt vs. inserts, on and on and on....

Thats a national ad if its the wedding party one of the Cabby with the whitewalls. It was in a number of national magazines.

[Phil]

Ok, I guess I mis understood. I did not get that you were having fun. It sounded serious. I know very little about judging either touring or fine points. I always assumed (you know what happens when you assume) that touring class was not counted off for so called "upgrades" like seal beams, 12volt, alt.or acc. Like stone guard,step plates, wind wings.
All my As are what I call original --- 6 volt, generator, original type upholstery, lots of repro parts where I had to. The 31s are 31 don't know if they are are correct to date of manufacture. The 28 Pheaton is early and has most early stuff, but not all. I am happy with them and they bring a lot of joy to me and people who see them when I drive them or at a local show. But if chasing points is your thing I hope you win. I love my Model As. One with www three black.

[Chris in WNC]

chasing points is not my thing either.
have never had any interest in having my cars judged,
although I try to follow the Judging Standards faithfully.
even at local-yokel car shows I add "please do not judge" on my windshield card.......

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Dog here,
After all this looong "DISCUSSION", will our life be any different tomorrow? NOPE! Fall outa' bed, Ol' Bill scratches my back afore' I go get water to cure my "PASTEY" mouth, don't know what Ol' Bill scratches on the way to take a pain pill & do his "HANDSOME" stuff to try to get his head & body operatin' so's we MAYBE? can get the car runnin' today! (LOOOONG SENTENCE!)
When I mentioned WHITEWALLS, Bill said, "We ain't got whitewalls, DUMMY"!----Guess I got to totally re-train him, It's a whole NEW day! Buster T.

[Fred]

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Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Dog here,
After all this looong "DISCUSSION", will our life be any different tomorrow? NOPE! Fall outa' bed, Ol' Bill scratches my back afore' I go get water to cure my "PASTEY" mouth, don't know what Ol' Bill scratches on the way to take a pain pill & do his "HANDSOME" stuff to try to get his head & body operatin' so's we MAYBE? can get the car runnin' today! (LOOOONG SENTENCE!)
When I mentioned WHITEWALLS, Bill said, "We ain't got whitewalls, DUMMY"!----Guess I got to totally re-train him, It's a whole NEW day! Buster T.

JUST A GREAT POST !! ?? A LOT OF GOOD INFORMATION HERE ??

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by Fred

JUST A GREAT POST !! ?? A LOT OF GOOD INFORMATION HERE ??

Bill is not one to mix words, sentences maybe but not words Far as losing points for my green fenders I'm not worried about such stuff but I do have some concerns about the death threats

Thinkn about a new camo paint job for the "A" in WV

dusty

[ctlikon0712]

Thinkn about a new camo paint job for the "A" in WV

LOL, in my best Larry the Cable guy voice "Now that is funny right there!"

[amdriven2liv]

Originally Posted by Dusty

Thinkn about a new camo paint job for the "A" in WV

dusty

I was thinking the same direction! Arabian Sand dark ( for my A would be correct) with Camo wrapped fenders, with matching painted rims.

It would draw in the next generation ( early 20's folks ) into the A world.

Hmmm.............

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Fred

JUST A GREAT POST !! ?? A LOT OF GOOD INFORMATION HERE ??

You should get a Dog, Fred, they contribute SO much joy & support to an otherwise mundane day.
I ponder what should our epitaphs read?
1-He had a Dog!
or
2-BOY! he knew his part numbers!
Bill W.

[Rock Hornbuckle]

Now that you guys have settled the whitewall issue, what am I to do with this fat girlfriend and her whitewalls, and how do I get the skinny one to come back?

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Rock Hornbuckle

Now that you guys have settled the whitewall issue, what am I to do with this fat girlfriend and her whitewalls, and how do I get the skinny one to come back?

Buy her a Studebaker!

[oliverguy]

I put white walls on my 31 town sedan. I think it looks nice and could give a crap what anyone else thinks.

[Bob-A]

Years ago the '29 phaeton I bought out of SC had double white walls on it. They were made by Coker back in the 70's when the car was restored.
When I got the car in 2004 the white walls had all turned yellow.
Nothing I used would get the yellow out so I called Coker to see what they would suggest. After laughing about how old the tires were they told me sandpaper was the only thing that would remove the yellow. And they were right! The 'ol lady and I did a heck of a lot of wet sanding
with 400 and 600 grit paper, but it did remove most of the yellow. As old as the tires were they were not dry rotted bad and we put more then a few miles on her before getting new ones. Unfortunately we could not get any more double white walls.

Bob-A

[Special Coupe Frank]

Since this thread seems to really be more about JUDGING than tires,
I'll throw my 2-cents in...

Both MARC and MAFCA seem to be really thorough in their Judging Standards.

While we do know that white-sidewall tires were available before, during , and after the Model A's production run, and COULD HAVE BEEN ordered or at least installed by an original owner, historical evidence seems to show that ALL white sidewall tires available in the 1927-'31 period were double-sided white walls...

Therefore, I would submit, that any Model A ( or other 1927-'31 make for AACA or other Marque -specific events), should take some sort of points deduction for wearing single-sided WWW tires, as they were NOT available when the car was new.

For those who say "but the Model A never had WWW tires", take a look through the original factory photos offered for sale in Bratton's catalog (plus others, I'm sure), and there are several period photos of Model A Fords wearing White Sidewall Tries, one them is even an AA, I believe.

Now, having said all that, perhaps "Driver Participation Class" should not be quite as strict as the full-bore JS judging ? If people want to go for that, they will, and will prep their car appropriately and take what comes...

I seriously doubt that I will ever have an antique car of ANY make / vintage that will be a fine-point car... that's not why I'm in this hobby... I want my vehicles to look nice, and function properly and safely, but I'm in this to work-on and drive my cars... that's where I get my satisfaction...

And I don't mind WWW on my Model A... for that matter, the majority of '28-'29 A's I see on-line or at local shows ( even Macungie and Hershey ) don't even have BLACK wheels...

[Chris in WNC]

Frank- I agree Touring class should cut more slack than fine point. perhaps only a 5-point deduction for WSW instead of 10. just PLEASE no 500 point cars with whitewalls. very disappointed that nobody from Touring Class officialdom has checked in to show me the error of my ways.....

[Franchise_24]

Chris I gotta say man you need to let this dead horse go. It's pretty sad you are ranting on this so much. If this is the worst thing you have to complain about you are having a pretty good day. Move along and let people have their cars the way they want them. Yes I have whitewall tires, but I'd be saying the same thing if I didn't. It's just not healthy the way you are going on about this subject.

[Forker]

I think this discussion could be a lot more valuable if we measured a few other critical factors as they related to choices in tires. For example we should also look at what the political and religious motivations of those favoring whitewalls or blackwalls. Once we completely vetted those two dimensions we will need to evaluate other critical factors such as who is pro-life vs. pro-choice and what tires they prefer. A few more key parameters might be needed, but only with this type of in-depth analysis we will be able get much closer to the inner workings of mankind and hopefully be able to make a significant contribution to society for many generations to come. Or, we could simply ignore all that and go back to enjoying our Model A as we each enjoy them, while continuing to share useful and helpful information/assistance here at the Barn.

george

(Apologies to Chris, I do appreciate the purpose of your post and understand it has been hijacked a bit for this classic debate)

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by Chris in WNC

Frank- I agree Touring class should cut more slack than fine point. perhaps only a 5-point deduction for WSW instead of 10. just PLEASE no 500 point cars with whitewalls. very disappointed that nobody from Touring Class officialdom has checked in to show me the error of my ways.....

This is not fun at all. You're hung-up and just plain vicious. I think you've done more to TURN PEOPLE OFF and dissuade them from ever wanting to enter a car in Touring Class than anything I've read on Fordbarn to date.

"Cummon' enter Touring Class!! There's now a bunch of opinionated guys who want to fine-point nitpick the shit out of your car!!"

My next paint job will have colored fenders, and my next set of tires will be white. On one side only. I'm now thinking about hot-rodding my fine-point 40B.

Thanks for the lesson in how to poorly disguise a BAD ATTITUDE RANT as a 'just for fun' question.

[zzlegend]

Originally Posted by Franchise_24

Chris I gotta say man you need to let this dead horse go. It's pretty sad you are ranting on this so much. If this is the worst thing you have to complain about you are having a pretty good day. Move along and let people have their cars the way they want them. Yes I have whitewall tires, but I'd be saying the same thing if I didn't. It's just not healthy the way you are going on about this subject.

Agreed