The Ford Barn

Milton · 03-29-2011, 08:11 PM

"tires older than six years get increasingly more dangerous regardless of how long they have been on the road."

I remember the quote above from a 20/20 program a while back. I have been rim straightening, painting and installing new Lucas tires on my 30A. Just today I checked the Allstate tire I pulled and discovered that it was 36 years old!!!

Now, by nature Model A's are not the fastest cars around but, most can do 60 mph, quit a few even more than that. Can you imagine a tire separation at speed? No thanks.

On a side note, I did the spare tire first and it was even older. When I finally got the tube separated from the rim I discovered a considerable amount of rust at the stem quadrant. I also noted previous painted-over rust damage in the same area of the next rim I did. So here is my tip: mount your spares stem up to prevent water from entering around the stem. As for me, I'm going tubeless.

Herman Munster · 03-29-2011, 08:33 PM

I looked at a Cadillac several years ago and it was still riding on it's original tires. They were about 50 years old at the time and they were still holding air. That's nothing amazing about that but amazing thing was the then owner of the car drove it from Minnesota to L.A. California the previous year.

CarlG · 03-29-2011, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milton

... As for me, I'm going tubeless.

Where do you get 19" tubless tires and how do you get the rims to hold the air?

Marvin/TN · 03-29-2011, 10:33 PM

I have a Gulf Oil tire on my 30 coupe that it over 50 years old, still has the same air in it that it was pumped up with when it mounted. Not driving my A now but the tire still looks good with no cracks.

J Franklin · 03-29-2011, 10:37 PM

I drive on mine until they are gone. that is why I carry a spare. An old car weighing 2000 pounds is much easier on tires than a modern car at hiway speeds 70- 80 mph

Milton · 03-29-2011, 10:39 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

"Where do you get 19" tubless tires and how do you get the rims to hold the air?"

I am using the Lucas tires and removing the air bleeders located at the tire bead. As for the rims they DO NOT get media blasted, rather, I disk sand down the bead seat to metal and leave the old paint in the rust pits to allow for a smoother finish for the air seal. A touch of RTV on the 5/8" stems and soap up the tire. Once the tire is on the rim I use a tire belt to squeeze the tire until the beads contact the rim and then use a high volume air gun to expand the tire enough to seal it against the rim.

I decided to try this because one of the 36 year old Allstates was mounted without a tube and the long stems deteriorate rapidly at the base from ozone checking.

Mike V. Florida · 03-29-2011, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milton

"Where do you get 19" tubless tires and how do you get the rims to hold the air?"

I am using the Lucas tires and removing the air bleeders located at the tire bead. As for the rims they DO NOT get media blasted, rather, I disk sand down the bead seat to metal and leave the old paint in the rust pits to allow for a smoother finish for the air seal. A touch of RTV on the 5/8" stems and soap up the tire. Once the tire is on the rim I use a tire belt to squeeze the tire until the beads contact the rim and then use a high volume air gun to expand the tire enough to seal it against the rim.

I decided to try this because one of the 36 year old Allstates was mounted without a tube and the long stems deteriorate rapidly at the base from ozone checking.

I know guys that ride bicycles in competition. to save weight they remove the tubes, install a tubless stem and then put "Slime" in the tire to seal it.

Slime also sells sealant for tubes.

Milton · 03-29-2011, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

I know guys that ride bicycles in competition. to save weight they remove the tubes, install a tubless stem and then put "Slime" in the tire to seal it.

Slime also sells sealant for tubes.

My first rim was media blasted and, after two days of brutal hands on combat with the wheel I was really contemplating the grandsons Slime supply, but the tire finally gave up in defeat and sealed to the rim.

Mike V. Florida · 03-30-2011, 01:17 AM

I would still rather patch a tube then battle the epic battle you did.

Milton · 03-30-2011, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

I would still rather patch a tube then battle the epic battle you did.

The good part is, unlike a spouse, you only have to whip them once.

When I get the next tire I think (hope) it will go easier

Flathead · 03-30-2011, 12:18 PM

I tend to question that 20/20 statement. It was probably in a press handout from some tire company.

Milton · 03-30-2011, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flathead

I tend to question that 20/20 statement. It was probably in a press handout from some tire company.

Here it is, you be the judge.

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4826897

I do have some reservations also because 20/20 likes to sensationalize their reports.

hardtimes · 03-30-2011, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milton

The good part is, unlike a spouse, you only have to whip them once.

When I get the next tire I think (hope) it will go easier

Milton,
In the eventuality that one of your tubeless tires goes flat while driving (road debris/Murphy/curb rub/rim damage/whatever) where do you carry your "high volume" air supply hand pump

?

Flathead · 03-30-2011, 02:21 PM

I watched the 20/20 link you put up, they certainly make a grim determination. The time limit seems a little arbitrary to me, but I am not an engineer.

Milton · 03-30-2011, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardtimes

where do you carry your "high volume" air supply hand pump

?

In the passenger seat next to me

... or for a flat tire, in my wallet, with my jack and tire tools 1 800 400-4AAA.

The high volume is only necessary for the first fill. The principle is to supply more air than can leak past the tire bead. The tires are wrapped tightly and the beads are touching each other. Once filled and run the tire will stay spread out against the bead.

Jason in TX · 03-30-2011, 04:16 PM

I was not aware that these rims had a safety bead either. Looking forward to hearing about your experiences with your method.

I as well as another member had the tread separate from the tire. It is possible on old as well as new tires. It just made a lot of racket when the rubber banged into the metal but the tube inside the tire kept the tire inflated so that I was able to pull over and change to the spare.

An inner-tube patch kit is nice and small and fits under the seat. I like that you can break the bead easily with the tire spoon, pull the inner-tube out, fix the puncture, insert back in, and be on the road again in an hour. I think I'll continue to go that route.

Chris in WNC · 03-31-2011, 01:00 PM

"I tend to question that 20/20 statement. It was probably in a press handout from some tire company."

very possible.

I'm running 19" Firestones on our Coupe that our old buddy Hoop purchased for his/our Tudor in 1991. he only drove them about 500 miles in 15 years and they were always parked indoors out of direct sunlight. since 2006 I have driven about half the tread off them, they are still nice and soft with no cracks or checks.

on the other hand, the Denman tires I removed from the Coupe (age unknown but likely 20-30 years) had no tread wear but were cracking badly on the sidewalls & between treads- could not get them off the car fast enough.

do whatever makes you feel safe

Flathead · 03-31-2011, 02:13 PM

Sadly, six years can go by very fast. Suddenly those new tires you "just" put on are way past the six years.

ChicagoBob · 04-01-2011, 09:58 AM

You know, I wouldn't make any decisions based on what you see on 60 minutes or your local news. A lot of their "consumer safety" reporting comes from tort lawyers who are seeking publicity for their cases. Remember the Audi 5000 and Toyota unintended acceleration "scandals" that turned out to be BS.

Jerry Parr WI · 04-01-2011, 11:56 AM

I wonder if much of the problem is related to the current materials. The age issue never seemed to be a problem with the old made in USA tires. The old tubeless stems also seemed to last forever unlike the current issue which fails on a regular basis.

I recently replaced the 25 year old tires on my Mustang GT which showed no signs of cracking. The rubber had gotten hard enough for traction to be a problem with the GT engine. Did find a new OEM set USA made. No concern here about their age.

03-29-2011, 08:11 PM	#1
Milton Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 837	Old cars with old tires "tires older than six years get increasingly more dangerous regardless of how long they have been on the road." I remember the quote above from a 20/20 program a while back. I have been rim straightening, painting and installing new Lucas tires on my 30A. Just today I checked the Allstate tire I pulled and discovered that it was 36 years old!!! Now, by nature Model A's are not the fastest cars around but, most can do 60 mph, quit a few even more than that. Can you imagine a tire separation at speed? No thanks. On a side note, I did the spare tire first and it was even older. When I finally got the tube separated from the rim I discovered a considerable amount of rust at the stem quadrant. I also noted previous painted-over rust damage in the same area of the next rim I did. So here is my tip: mount your spares stem up to prevent water from entering around the stem. As for me, I'm going tubeless.

03-29-2011, 08:33 PM	#2
Herman Munster Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: SW WA state. Posts: 564	Re: Old cars with old tires I looked at a Cadillac several years ago and it was still riding on it's original tires. They were about 50 years old at the time and they were still holding air. That's nothing amazing about that but amazing thing was the then owner of the car drove it from Minnesota to L.A. California the previous year.

03-29-2011, 10:33 PM	#4
Marvin/TN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chattanooga, TN area Posts: 832	Re: Old cars with old tires I have a Gulf Oil tire on my 30 coupe that it over 50 years old, still has the same air in it that it was pumped up with when it mounted. Not driving my A now but the tire still looks good with no cracks.

03-29-2011, 10:37 PM	#5
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,975	Re: Old cars with old tires I drive on mine until they are gone. that is why I carry a spare. An old car weighing 2000 pounds is much easier on tires than a modern car at hiway speeds 70- 80 mph

03-29-2011, 10:39 PM	#6
Milton Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 837	Re: Old cars with old tires Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) "Where do you get 19" tubless tires and how do you get the rims to hold the air?" I am using the Lucas tires and removing the air bleeders located at the tire bead. As for the rims they DO NOT get media blasted, rather, I disk sand down the bead seat to metal and leave the old paint in the rust pits to allow for a smoother finish for the air seal. A touch of RTV on the 5/8" stems and soap up the tire. Once the tire is on the rim I use a tire belt to squeeze the tire until the beads contact the rim and then use a high volume air gun to expand the tire enough to seal it against the rim. I decided to try this because one of the 36 year old Allstates was mounted without a tube and the long stems deteriorate rapidly at the base from ozone checking.

03-30-2011, 01:17 AM	#9
Mike V. Florida Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 14,054	Re: Old cars with old tires I would still rather patch a tube then battle the epic battle you did. __________________ What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II

03-30-2011, 12:18 PM	#11
Flathead Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 1,502	Re: Old cars with old tires I tend to question that 20/20 statement. It was probably in a press handout from some tire company.

03-30-2011, 02:21 PM	#14
Flathead Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 1,502	Re: Old cars with old tires I watched the 20/20 link you put up, they certainly make a grim determination. The time limit seems a little arbitrary to me, but I am not an engineer.

03-30-2011, 04:16 PM	#16
Jason in TX Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: ⓉⒺXⒶⓈ Posts: 2,047	Re: Old cars with old tires I was not aware that these rims had a safety bead either. Looking forward to hearing about your experiences with your method. I as well as another member had the tread separate from the tire. It is possible on old as well as new tires. It just made a lot of racket when the rubber banged into the metal but the tube inside the tire kept the tire inflated so that I was able to pull over and change to the spare. An inner-tube patch kit is nice and small and fits under the seat. I like that you can break the bead easily with the tire spoon, pull the inner-tube out, fix the puncture, insert back in, and be on the road again in an hour. I think I'll continue to go that route. __________________ -------------- Drive it like you know how to fix it! DMAFC / OILERS CC-MC

03-31-2011, 01:00 PM	#17
Chris in WNC Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Spruce Pine, NC Posts: 1,461	Re: Old cars with old tires "I tend to question that 20/20 statement. It was probably in a press handout from some tire company." very possible. I'm running 19" Firestones on our Coupe that our old buddy Hoop purchased for his/our Tudor in 1991. he only drove them about 500 miles in 15 years and they were always parked indoors out of direct sunlight. since 2006 I have driven about half the tread off them, they are still nice and soft with no cracks or checks. on the other hand, the Denman tires I removed from the Coupe (age unknown but likely 20-30 years) had no tread wear but were cracking badly on the sidewalls & between treads- could not get them off the car fast enough. do whatever makes you feel safe __________________ our next Model A is out there in the unknown......

03-31-2011, 02:13 PM	#18
Flathead Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 1,502	Re: Old cars with old tires Sadly, six years can go by very fast. Suddenly those new tires you "just" put on are way past the six years.

04-01-2011, 09:58 AM	#19
ChicagoBob Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Yorkville, IL Posts: 126	Re: Old cars with old tires You know, I wouldn't make any decisions based on what you see on 60 minutes or your local news. A lot of their "consumer safety" reporting comes from tort lawyers who are seeking publicity for their cases. Remember the Audi 5000 and Toyota unintended acceleration "scandals" that turned out to be BS.

04-01-2011, 11:56 AM	#20
Jerry Parr WI Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 619	Re: Old cars with old tires I wonder if much of the problem is related to the current materials. The age issue never seemed to be a problem with the old made in USA tires. The old tubeless stems also seemed to last forever unlike the current issue which fails on a regular basis. I recently replaced the 25 year old tires on my Mustang GT which showed no signs of cracking. The rubber had gotten hard enough for traction to be a problem with the GT engine. Did find a new OEM set USA made. No concern here about their age.