46-48 front drum replacement, or??

[hammondite]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

Like V-8 said. Use Bolling Bros drums and you will be 100% satisfied.
They are worth the $$.

I have the Boling Brothers drums, those are the ones binding.

[hammondite]

Originally Posted by rich b

Maybe things have changed; but a friend tried to buy some Boling Bros hubs; but they were on backorder. While I have never seen or used them; P&J have hubs that are listed as matching early Ford style specs. Possibly why.

That's exactly why. Gary recommended the P&J hubs as a substitute.

[hammondite]

OK, a follow up.

Per Gary's recommendation, I sent photos and info to Boling Brothers.

They got back to me today.

They've heard of this happening with Lockheed brakes (fixed bottom anchor), which is what I have. The Bendix brake shoes'float' a bit and can move relative to the drum. The fixed anchor doesn't move. They suggested having someone arc the shoes to fit the drum better.

I'm not sure I can find someone to do that. I wonder if it's feasible to remove some material from the bottom of the shoes instead.

[hammondite]

Originally Posted by rich b

I would start out by shimming the drum with washers and putting a couple lug nuts on to see if spins free.

If that works, I would next check to make sure the backing plates are not bent; clamp a wire on the hub flange with a point bent and placed close to the backing plate and and turn the hub to see how the plate looks (I would normally use a dial indicator; but the mag base wouldn't stick in this case).

You can also check the hub flange for run-out by clamping the wire to to the backing plate and spinning the hub.

Could also measure the hub; the face is about 3-1/8" out from the spindle face; probably a little hard to do with the backing plate in place.

Between these checks you should find the problem.

Thanks for the suggestion.

I did space the drums out a little, it did improve.

I'll check if the backing plates are bent, the wire 'tool' is a great idea. And I'll try to measure the hub/spindle distance.

The original hub/drums fit fine. The only problem is that one drum is badly grooved.

[rich b]

Seems odd the radius of the shoes would be the cause from your description. If so, I would think they would be tight just slipping the drums on. Never know.

[hammondite]

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Originally Posted by rich b

Seems odd the radius of the shoes would be the cause from your description. If so, I would think they would be tight just slipping the drums on. Never know.

I agree with the radius assessment, it does seem a bit odd. And I'm not sure how changing the arc would alter the fit at the bottom (fixed end of the 'arc').

Also, Boling Brothers rep mentioned the brake material may be thicker on the new shoes than the originals. If so, then removing enough to allow the drums to spin may work.

[rich b]

You may be able to just taper the lower ends of the shoes if they turn out to be the problem and the radius is close. Here's a picture of an old shoe that has a taper. New shoes are sometimes a little big when combined with new drums. I have had to bevel a couple shoes in the past. Just knocked the edge down with a disc sander.

[30Murray]

Maybe I'm missing something here but it appears that the original drums mount on the inside of the hub flange, whereas the Boling bros. drums are designed to mount on the outside of the hubs. So wouldn't the offset be different and there would be a large gap to the backing plate if mounted outside and rubbing if mounted inside? I have similar drums as noted in an earlier post about studs.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by rich b

You may be able to just taper the lower ends of the shoes if they turn out to be the problem and the radius is close. Here's a picture of an old shoe that has a taper. New shoes are sometimes a little big when combined with new drums. I have had to bevel a couple shoes in the past. Just knocked the edge down with a disc sander.

[hammondite]

Originally Posted by rich b

You may be able to just taper the lower ends of the shoes if they turn out to be the problem and the radius is close. Here's a picture of an old shoe that has a taper. New shoes are sometimes a little big when combined with new drums. I have had to bevel a couple shoes in the past. Just knocked the edge down with a disc sander.

Good info, thanks. I'm looking at it again today. I'll keep everyone posted, in case it helps someone else.

[hammondite]

Originally Posted by 30Murray

Maybe I'm missing something here but it appears that the original drums mount on the inside of the hub flange, whereas the Boling bros. drums are designed to mount on the outside of the hubs. So wouldn't the offset be different and there would be a large gap to the backing plate if mounted outside and rubbing if mounted inside? I have similar drums as noted in an earlier post about studs.

The 'outside mount' drums are offset to place the braking surface in the original location. They don't really work with the original hubs as far as I know.

[hammondite]

Good afternoon, everyone:

I followed up on what Boling Brothers told me and solved the problem.

By inspecting and measuring the brake shoes, I found that the bottom edge of the 'large' shoe
had scuff marks and was closer to the outer edge of the backing plate.

A few minutes with a small random sander on that end of the shoe took it down enough to
eliminate the binding. I was very careful and only removed enough to clear, there is plenty of material left.

This is likely only an issue with shoes with a hard anchored bottom (Lockheed, rather than Bendix?)

Thanks for your help, and feel free to share this with anyone else that it can help.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by hammondite

Good afternoon, everyone:

I followed up on what Boling Brothers told me and solved the problem.

By inspecting and measuring the brake shoes, I found that the bottom edge of the 'large' shoe
had scuff marks and was closer to the outer edge of the backing plate.

A few minutes with a small random sander on that end of the shoe took it down enough to
eliminate the binding. I was very careful and only removed enough to clear, there is plenty of material left.

This is likely only an issue with shoes with a hard anchored bottom (Lockheed, rather than Bendix?)

Thanks for your help, and feel free to share this with anyone else that it can help.

Glad to hear that you have worked through this anomaly with new Boling Brothers' brakes, which are usually bullet proof in both operation, as well as with installation. There is always a possibility of some freak circumstance popping-up as you've seen, but you persevered, found the issue and ended-up successful with your install. Many of us here on the 'Barn appreciate you hanging in there with the latest updates and your eventual success. I'm sure that many of us can predict that you will be most-satisfied with how well these brakes perform.

Coop


.

[hammondite]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

Glad to hear that you have worked through this anomaly with new Boling Brothers' brakes, which are usually bullet proof in both operation, as well as with installation. There is always a possibility of some freak circumstance popping-up as you've seen, but you persevered, found the issue and ended-up successful with your install. Many of us here on the 'Barn appreciate you hanging in there with the latest updates and your eventual success. I'm sure that many of us can predict that you will be most-satisfied with how well these brakes perform.

Coop


.

Thanks Coop

[alchemy]

Originally Posted by hammondite

The fixed anchor doesn't move.

I found another possible reason for your fit issue. The top fixed anchor DOES move. You need to assemble all, and with the top anchor nut loosely snugged, step on the brake pedal to center the shoes in the drum. The anchor can adjust up and down a bit in the backing plate to allow the shoe to ride up or down depending on how worn the shoes are.

You might need to smack the anchor a bit with a rubber hammer to move it up or down. If you are contacting too much on the bottom of the shoe, try moving the anchor up a bit.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by alchemy

I found another possible reason for your fit issue. The top fixed anchor DOES move. You need to assemble all, and with the top anchor nut loosely snugged, step on the brake pedal to center the shoes in the drum. The anchor can adjust up and down a bit in the backing plate to allow the shoe to ride up or down depending on how worn the shoes are.

You might need to smack the anchor a bit with a rubber hammer to move it up or down. If you are contacting too much on the bottom of the shoe, try moving the anchor up a bit.

Man, why didn't I think about that? That was one reason that the Wilson Welding early Lincoln brakes were such a problem. They were built with that anchor NOT ADJUSTABLE. Doomed from the start.

Coop


.

[rich b]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

Man, why didn't I think about that? That was one reason that the Wilson Welding early Lincoln brakes were such a problem. They were built with that anchor NOT ADJUSTABLE. Doomed from the start.

Coop


.

On the other hand since the mid '50s; just about every production Bendix type backing plate has had a fixed anchor pin. I wonder if Wilson's anchor pin was miss-located for the shoes used.

Anyway the OP said he had Lockheed brakes and since he mentioned "fixed"; I would think he has the '46-'48 type with the fixed pin and sliding cam in the shoe.

[alchemy]

Oh. I guess I glossed over that part. Thanks Rich.