The Ford Barn

ampico-kid · 06-30-2023, 11:47 PM

Working through some "bugs" in my Town Sedan with the new Burtz engine. When the ignition is OFF, and I depress the clutch pedal, there is a very loud squeak or groan that seems to be coming from the clutch/pressure plate area. I've thoroughly greased the clutch pedal shaft and the associated linkages, and still the noise continues. I'm thinking something with the clutch pressure plate? Is there something that could be lubricated? Not sure, and don't want to do something that will kill the clutch plate. I also notice that the foot pressure needed to depress the clutch is way more than what's needed to depress the clutch in my Coupe. Can that tension be adjusted? Thanks.

Richard Knight · 07-01-2023, 12:00 AM

Did you check the finger height. If the fingers drop to much you lose the leverage designed into the pressure plate. Also sometimes the pivots points can squeak if totally dry.

Rob Doe · 07-01-2023, 03:03 AM

Ampico,

There is a grease fitting, which originally greased the throw out bearing and the shaft that the bearing slides fore and aft on, under the bell housing inspection cover. (The one just forward of the transmission shift lever)

Modern throw out bearings are sealed, and are no longer greased, but the shaft/tube that the bearing slides on still needs an occasional bit of grease.

The lubrication chart in the Owner Instruction manual and / or the Les Andrews red book.

Good luck

JayJay · 07-01-2023, 09:08 AM

Another thing, silly as it may seem - check to see that your clutch pedal is not rubbing on the metal plates that surround the pedal on the floorboard. That would explain both the groan and the stiffness. On the other hand, one of our club members recently installed a Burtz engine with a “V-8” clutch and was remarking on how stiff it was, so maybe there is a batch of “V-8” clutches out there that are somehow different.

JayJay

ampico-kid · 07-01-2023, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Knight

Did you check the finger height. If the fingers drop to much you lose the leverage designed into the pressure plate. Also sometimes the pivots points can squeak if totally dry.

Can the finger height be checked with the pressure plate still in the car? The clutch was replaced when the Burtz engine was installed, so I'd assume all of that was checked, although I could be wrong about that. What do you use to lube the finger pivot points? Can that be done through the access panel opening? Thanks.

ampico-kid · 07-01-2023, 09:13 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JayJay

Another thing, silly as it may seem - check to see that your clutch pedal is not rubbing on the metal plates that surround the pedal on the floorboard. That would explain both the groan and the stiffness. On the other hand, one of our club members recently installed a Burtz engine with a “V-8” clutch and was remarking on how stiff it was, so maybe there is a batch of “V-8” clutches out there that are somehow different.

JayJay

The metal plate has plenty of clearance around the pedal, as a matter of fact, there's so much that the previous owner of this car installed a piece of carpeting under the plate to cover the space. Yes....my car also had the "V-8" clutch installed. I guess I can live with the stiffness, but the squeak has got to go. Thanks.

ampico-kid · 07-01-2023, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Doe

Ampico,

There is a grease fitting, which originally greased the throw out bearing and the shaft that the bearing slides fore and aft on, under the bell housing inspection cover. (The one just forward of the transmission shift lever)

Modern throw out bearings are sealed, and are no longer greased, but the shaft/tube that the bearing slides on still needs an occasional bit of grease.

The lubrication chart in the Owner Instruction manual and / or the Les Andrews red book.

Good luck

I'll check out that grease fitting, although I'm still suspecting something with the pressure plate, the springs, and/or the finger pivots. You can slowly depress and release the clutch pedal and really feel the noise in the pedal as it moves.

Marshall V. Daut · 07-01-2023, 10:39 AM

The stoplight switch can be a squeaker, too, as the plunger rod goes in and out of the body. Its noise will telegraph through the drivetrain and sound as if it were coming from the clutch. Spray some silicone lube or squirt oil on each side of the stoplight switch body around the plunger. Maybe that will help, or at least eliminate one possible source of the noise.
As one poster suggested for noise and pedal stiffness, ensure that the clutch pedal is not bent and rubbing against the upper floorboard cutout area. Many clutch pedals are bent because engines tipped over when removed and the first thing that contacts the cement is the clutch pedal. Easily bent with all that weight pushing against it. Remove the upper floorboard entirely, operate the clutch pedal and see if the noise and pedal stiffness conditions improve.
Marshall

ampico-kid · 07-01-2023, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall V. Daut

The stoplight switch can be a squeaker, too, as the plunger rod goes in and out of the body. Its noise will telegraph through the drivetrain and sound as if it were coming from the clutch. Spray some silicone lube or squirt oil on each side of the stoplight switch body around the plunger. Maybe that will help, or at least eliminate one possible source of the noise.
As one poster suggested for noise and pedal stiffness, ensure that the clutch pedal is not bent and rubbing against the upper floorboard cutout area. Many clutch pedals are bent because engines tipped over when removed and the first thing that contacts the cement is the clutch pedal. Easily bent with all that weight pushing against it. Remove the upper floorboard entirely, operate the clutch pedal and see if the noise and pedal stiffness conditions improve.
Marshall

The stoplight switch could make noise when the brake pedal is applied. In this case the noise is only present when the clutch pedal is depressed or released. I have checked out this noise with the floor boards out of the car, and the only difference is that with the floor board out, the noise is more prominent. Thanks Marshall.

rotorwrench · 07-01-2023, 02:19 PM

The modern replacements for the old Long type 9-inch clutches leave a lot to be desired if that is what the OP has installed. The original types had the adjustable fingers and the flyweights. The modern reproductions are better suited to the Ford tractors than they are for cars. Unless a person has an old one that can be rebuilt then that's what we're stuck with.

The original model A type clutch works OK but the flywheels are heavy and a bit more complicated to resurface due to the rim flange for the clutch cover also having to be equally resurfaced.

ampico-kid · 07-01-2023, 05:31 PM

OK...problem solved, at least temporarily. I found that when I removed the access plate into the bell housing I could see the pressure plate finger pivot points, and hear the squeek quite well. I very carefully applied a couple of drops of oil on each of the finger pivots, and as I did that I could hear the noise beginning to fade. Once I got all of the finger pivots oiled, the noise was gone, and to my surprise the pedal felt a little easier to press as well. I don't know how long this is going to last, but I just wanted to let you all know what I found. Thanks for the suggestions.

nkaminar · 07-01-2023, 06:03 PM

Kid, Thanks for letting us know how you solved the problem. Good detective job. Those barrel shaped weights help to keep the clutch engaged at higher rpm. If the squeak comes back, try some different lubricants like assembly lube. Keeping the idle rpm low may help with the pedal pressure.

CT Jack · 07-01-2023, 09:01 PM

I just installed a 35-41 Ford 239 V8 flathead 9" pressure plate clutch kit from Fort Wayne Clutch on my Burtz engine flywheel. I plan on checking the finger height dimension before installing the engine. Hopefully your finger heights are set correctly. We have found that many of the reman clutch kits are not properly adjusted. Unfortunately, you can no longer assume they are. Quality is no longer built into the product.
Thanks for sharing your noise fix. I will make sure I apply some lubrication before installing mine.

rotorwrench · 07-02-2023, 09:52 AM

The flyweights are a part of the actuator arms and may have been set up a bit tight. They will likely "break in" as the clutch is operated over time. The flyweights are there to allow for a reduction of pedal spring tension and are a big part of the original Long design. Original parts for these are likely fading out of existence since the modern replacements are no longer made with the flyweights or the adjustable fingers. The available springs may have more tension due to that but I'm not a clutch rebuilder so I can't say if they are different or not.

06-30-2023, 11:47 PM	#1
ampico-kid Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Harpers Ferry, WV Posts: 97	Squeaky Clutch Working through some "bugs" in my Town Sedan with the new Burtz engine. When the ignition is OFF, and I depress the clutch pedal, there is a very loud squeak or groan that seems to be coming from the clutch/pressure plate area. I've thoroughly greased the clutch pedal shaft and the associated linkages, and still the noise continues. I'm thinking something with the clutch pressure plate? Is there something that could be lubricated? Not sure, and don't want to do something that will kill the clutch plate. I also notice that the foot pressure needed to depress the clutch is way more than what's needed to depress the clutch in my Coupe. Can that tension be adjusted? Thanks.

07-01-2023, 12:00 AM	#2
Richard Knight Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2021 Posts: 130	Re: Squeaky Clutch Did you check the finger height. If the fingers drop to much you lose the leverage designed into the pressure plate. Also sometimes the pivots points can squeak if totally dry.

07-01-2023, 03:03 AM	#3
Rob Doe Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2021 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 494	Re: Squeaky Clutch Ampico, There is a grease fitting, which originally greased the throw out bearing and the shaft that the bearing slides fore and aft on, under the bell housing inspection cover. (The one just forward of the transmission shift lever) Modern throw out bearings are sealed, and are no longer greased, but the shaft/tube that the bearing slides on still needs an occasional bit of grease. The lubrication chart in the Owner Instruction manual and / or the Les Andrews red book. Good luck __________________ "It ain't what you know for certain that gets ya in trouble. It's what ya know for certain that just ain't so!"

07-01-2023, 09:08 AM	#4
JayJay Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 1,077	Re: Squeaky Clutch Another thing, silly as it may seem - check to see that your clutch pedal is not rubbing on the metal plates that surround the pedal on the floorboard. That would explain both the groan and the stiffness. On the other hand, one of our club members recently installed a Burtz engine with a “V-8” clutch and was remarking on how stiff it was, so maybe there is a batch of “V-8” clutches out there that are somehow different. JayJay __________________ JayJay San Francisco Bay Area ------------------------ 1930 Murray Town Sedan 1931 Briggs S/W Town Sedan

07-01-2023, 10:39 AM	#8
Marshall V. Daut Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Davenport, Iowa Posts: 2,112	Re: Squeaky Clutch The stoplight switch can be a squeaker, too, as the plunger rod goes in and out of the body. Its noise will telegraph through the drivetrain and sound as if it were coming from the clutch. Spray some silicone lube or squirt oil on each side of the stoplight switch body around the plunger. Maybe that will help, or at least eliminate one possible source of the noise. As one poster suggested for noise and pedal stiffness, ensure that the clutch pedal is not bent and rubbing against the upper floorboard cutout area. Many clutch pedals are bent because engines tipped over when removed and the first thing that contacts the cement is the clutch pedal. Easily bent with all that weight pushing against it. Remove the upper floorboard entirely, operate the clutch pedal and see if the noise and pedal stiffness conditions improve. Marshall

07-01-2023, 02:19 PM	#10
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: Squeaky Clutch The modern replacements for the old Long type 9-inch clutches leave a lot to be desired if that is what the OP has installed. The original types had the adjustable fingers and the flyweights. The modern reproductions are better suited to the Ford tractors than they are for cars. Unless a person has an old one that can be rebuilt then that's what we're stuck with. The original model A type clutch works OK but the flywheels are heavy and a bit more complicated to resurface due to the rim flange for the clutch cover also having to be equally resurfaced. Last edited by rotorwrench; 07-02-2023 at 09:59 AM.

07-01-2023, 05:31 PM	#11
ampico-kid Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Harpers Ferry, WV Posts: 97	Re: Squeaky Clutch OK...problem solved, at least temporarily. I found that when I removed the access plate into the bell housing I could see the pressure plate finger pivot points, and hear the squeek quite well. I very carefully applied a couple of drops of oil on each of the finger pivots, and as I did that I could hear the noise beginning to fade. Once I got all of the finger pivots oiled, the noise was gone, and to my surprise the pedal felt a little easier to press as well. I don't know how long this is going to last, but I just wanted to let you all know what I found. Thanks for the suggestions.

07-01-2023, 06:03 PM	#12
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,897	Re: Squeaky Clutch Kid, Thanks for letting us know how you solved the problem. Good detective job. Those barrel shaped weights help to keep the clutch engaged at higher rpm. If the squeak comes back, try some different lubricants like assembly lube. Keeping the idle rpm low may help with the pedal pressure. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

07-01-2023, 09:01 PM	#13
CT Jack Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Hebron, CT Posts: 432	Re: Squeaky Clutch I just installed a 35-41 Ford 239 V8 flathead 9" pressure plate clutch kit from Fort Wayne Clutch on my Burtz engine flywheel. I plan on checking the finger height dimension before installing the engine. Hopefully your finger heights are set correctly. We have found that many of the reman clutch kits are not properly adjusted. Unfortunately, you can no longer assume they are. Quality is no longer built into the product. Thanks for sharing your noise fix. I will make sure I apply some lubrication before installing mine.

07-02-2023, 09:52 AM	#14
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: Squeaky Clutch The flyweights are a part of the actuator arms and may have been set up a bit tight. They will likely "break in" as the clutch is operated over time. The flyweights are there to allow for a reduction of pedal spring tension and are a big part of the original Long design. Original parts for these are likely fading out of existence since the modern replacements are no longer made with the flyweights or the adjustable fingers. The available springs may have more tension due to that but I'm not a clutch rebuilder so I can't say if they are different or not.