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05-24-2021, 03:18 PM | #21 |
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Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?
Both 28/29 coupe and roadster used the same subrails with minor differences.
Seat risers are different and roadster has a stiffener underneath the door thresholds fastened to subrail sides with rivets and spotwelds. I think this stiffener also serves to keep the threshold from flexing down when you step on it when entering the car. The only other differences I noticed was hole locations in a few places like door post. My 28 roadster had been channeled & panneled, that is the fender wells had been covered with sheetmetal that was welded, brazed, and bolted to the middle of the quarter panels. It was pretty messy. I got a complete subrail set with floorpans from a coupe and had no problems lining up the roadster parts and drilling a few holes where needed. The second photo is the 29 body with threshold stiffener visible on the subrail. Kevin |
05-24-2021, 03:33 PM | #22 | |
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Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?
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My comment about the coupe subrail confusing things was because of the location of what was left of the quarter panel braces. I mean, it literally was just “confusing”, as I was trying to determine the correct location of for those braces, having never seen a complete car. Man...$300... |
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05-24-2021, 07:37 PM | #23 |
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Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?
$300 was 1990 price for that body. I offered $300 for another body in 2006 that was on craigslist, but when I went to see it, there were rust holes all over, even those places it usually does not rust thru. I walked away from that deal thinking of the many hours welding holes it would require. Later I saw a hot rod for sale with similar rust and realized it didn't have to be patched up to make a rust patina hot rod.
Also my 28 body cost $250 and it had doors & decklid. Kevin Last edited by 40-A Twins; 05-24-2021 at 07:38 PM. Reason: edit |
05-25-2021, 08:49 AM | #24 | |
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Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?
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I was just teasing anyway. I could tell the photo was plenty old. I wish I was old enough to be shopping for early roadsters in 1990. I bought mine at the height of the hot rod craze, and I think values have kind of subsided now. Oh well...can’t take it with you. |
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06-01-2021, 10:52 AM | #25 |
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Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?
https://youtu.be/fdi5GMPqFDs Thanks to the new OE hinges from @BrentwoodBob and a bit of ingenuity, I was able to get the rumble lid working nicely. This will be last intentional “bump” of this thread, as there is another thread I am posting the YouTube videos in. Thank you for the help Ford Barn. I literally couldn’t have done it without you...once again. Last edited by crazycasey; 06-02-2021 at 09:46 AM. |
06-01-2021, 01:40 PM | #26 |
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Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?
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Just where did the problem exist and just how are the repro brackets different than the original brackets? Pluck |
06-01-2021, 01:43 PM | #27 |
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Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?
I am the author of the 68C website.
I can tell you that the reproduction lid is made for the the reproduction hinges. The originals will NOT fit. When I bought the Brookville lid and hinges I had the same problem you are having. I sent the lid back and the sent me a new lid that the hinges will come out to the correct distance apart. Do not try to bend the hinges, they will break. I know. The reproduction hinges are small in every direction. I could believe they are directly molded from factory hinges and the metal would shrink in every direction. The being kept in mind. Once you make the hinges have the correct width to fit the space between the brackets on the quarter panels you will next have to make the hole in that bracket larger to work with the shorter hinge. I would start with a call to Brookville. You need to find out which parts are not in the correct position. You did not include pictures of the outside of the lid. How well does the edges of the qtrs match the sides of the lid? You are also going to have to relocate the rumble latch position to get the body lines to match up and prevent from pulling down the rumble lid sheet metal. The latch collar MUST touch the metal under the latch handle hole. You may also have to relocate the hole a bit to be correct. Yes, I did all of the above to get the lid to fit properly on my cabriolet. |
06-02-2021, 11:01 AM | #28 | |||||||
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Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?
That’s great. I’ve found it to be a helpful reference, if not slightly full of doom and gloom about the current state of reproduction parts.
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I can believe this. Quote:
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Thanks for all of the feedback. Check out my videos. I’ve got about 35 minutes between part 1 https://youtu.be/YueQrHppljw and part 2 https://youtu.be/fdi5GMPqFDs that take me from the ill-fitting mess in those first pictures, to a smooth opening rumble lid that looks at least “ok” from the outside. |
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06-02-2021, 11:10 AM | #29 | |
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Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?
Quote:
The problem was compounded by the fact that the rest of my reproduction parts in the back half of the car all had tolerances that stacked up in the wrong direction, this time. But, here’s something I found VERY interesting. Look at the quarter panel brace and hinge bracket location on this early Brookville body that belongs to a friend of mine. That sure looks high and forward to me... |
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06-02-2021, 11:21 AM | #30 |
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Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?
You know...this has been repeated so many times in the past...and yes, thank God we got those who do reproduce these parts for us...but if they would just take that extra step in the process and make these reproduction parts right from the get-go...we would not have all these frickin problems that we do have.
But that is not the case so we fight it till we make these parts work or just give up and go the route of using original parts if we can find them and yes...they are out there. Once a person goes down this road a few times...original parts are the only way after spending a bunch of money on crap parts that could of been utilized on original parts. But that is all part of the learning curve in this hobby...we have all gone through it as I know of no one that has not. Pluck |
06-02-2021, 01:21 PM | #31 | |
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Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?
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06-05-2021, 09:43 AM | #32 |
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Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?
I have an original lid and hinges now. Started with a Aftermarket lid and hinges. That was a nightmare. The lid was 3/16" TO wide and the wrong conture and the hinges where only close. JP
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06-08-2021, 10:13 AM | #33 |
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Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?
I agree with everything you just said. Maybe I can find a good original...of course, then I might need to re-do my brackets again.
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06-08-2021, 06:53 PM | #34 |
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Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?
If I could buy unassembled units I could really do alot better.
If the skins and inner liners of doors and deck lids weren’t married up, I could make them fit a whole lot better than the full assembled units I regularly take skins off original deck lids for repair and then make easily into rumble lid if desired. You can even adjust for miss-sizing if apart |
06-09-2021, 02:02 PM | #35 |
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Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?
So your are dealing with all repro parts. A real nightmare in minor problems all the time.
All bets are off on fit. While things could have changed. I was told by Brookville the rumble lids were made to fit the reproduction hinges. They can only get a good supply of them so that is why they make them for those hinges. I attempted to us factory hinges but they would not fit the detents for the hinges. At the time I had an almost perfect 28-29 rumble lid. The factory hinges fit absolutely perfect. I will clearly state that Ford did fairly precision building of the body panels. They use insanely tight tolerances. This was done to ensure during production very little labor was needed to fit any part of the car. If there was one thing Ford hated was paying for labor. Body shop guys got paid more then guys who just had to bolt stuff together. So Ford use precision manufacturing to lower labor costs. You can read some about this in various books, but Fordlandia has an interesting talk about this practice. Yes, I have research this some. I used a factory rumble latch and I have 31 so the latch position is different the 28-29. When I screwed the two facing screws in the collar part did not touch the inside sheet metal of the outer panel. So when you install the handle it would pull down on the outer rumble lid panel and create distortion. Also the front edge of the rumble lid was a bit high. Keep in mind I am using factory qtrs and upper panel. My lower panel is a repro, I will get to that later. When I relocated the rectangle and 2 screw holes for the latch, the front edge sat level with the upper panel. The hinges just suck. The alignment just sucks. Do what you have to to make it work. Once you have basic position of the hinges and the other 3 edges you need to fix the lower gap. You have read about the original fit on my site. I can already tell you the gap is too tight on your panel. You will chip the paint in the corners. Not a whole lot you can do about either. Well you can do like Vince Falter and get a panel without the top edge formed and build a form. I was able to slide my lower rear panel down a bit by enlarging the holes. I had to remake the lower back corners of the qtrs so I just made things work as best I could. I found the lower panel I used to be a bit narrow. The cabriolet uses the 28-29 coupe panel here. I removed the original heavy metal brace from a beat up original. When I put it in I found the width of the repro panel was like 1/8" narrow. I beat the edge out some to get the correct width. Dont forget to lock the shape of the lid by shaping it in position. Then welding the inner and outer panels in 4 spots. The factory brazed them. I laid in my car while my brother held the shape. Nice videos. Too bad you could not have had the luxury of working with original parts. Life is much easier when stuff just bolts together and works. It has been extremely rare to find repro parts that do that. Do your best and keep stepping back a few feet and make sure it looks right. In the end looking right works well. The first time you put together a pile of original rust straight parts and they just work you never want to go back. |
06-09-2021, 06:08 PM | #36 |
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Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?
I've studied these cars pretty close. I've looked at coupster conversions but they never look quite right. The open cars in 28 & 29 have the lowest belt line of all the cars. The coupe & tudor cars have a higher belt line and this is what makes the difference plus the doors are larger all the way around discounting the upper window section. Due to the taller body, the curve of the rear deck is steeper on the coupe than it is on the roadster even though they used the same deck lid. This puts the roadster deck in a lower position so the whole look is different between the coupe & roadster rear section.
Ford roadster sheet metal was stamped by Budd and Ford Dearborn so that they could keep production pace. Ford was picky about fit and finish so they kept the tollerances very close for all parts. Deck lids could be fit to coupes or roadsters with no difference in fit. I generally recommend that a person use a good straight model A frame and new body blocks to fit a body together. Put the body together loose using temporary fasteners to attach all parts and make sure all doors fit during the process before riveting things together. This is the most effective way I know to get stuff to fit like Ford intended it to. Also make sure all of those rear corner braces are the proper parts since there are different parts available for these bodies depending on configuration. A trunk car is set up different than a rumble seat car and of course there are differences between coupe and roadster. |
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