Who is forging/casting the Burtz blocks?

[philcobill]

I hope I am mistaken about something. Based on the link below, it looks like the blocks are manufactured in China. Am I reading this wrong?
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showp...2&postcount=87


So my question is where exactly are the blocks being forged/cast?


I am new to looking at getting one for my Model A, so I appreciate your understanding if I missed something along the way.



Bill Harms

[lotsagas4u]

Yep, Our friends, the Chinese are forging these blocks

[barrelnose]

They would be cast wouldn’t they?

[philcobill]

Originally Posted by barrelnose

They would be cast wouldn’t they?

Regardless, the question is who is making the blocks?

[JayJay]

I attended a seminar by Terry Burtz a few weeks ago. He was forthright on this question. He stated that he tried several foundries in the US but the cost for prototype and/or the cost of production was prohibitive. Others were not interested when he specified the level of precision he was expecting. He told us that the foundry he eventually chose in China has excellent QA and is also producing engine blocks for several recognizable auto manufacturers (I will leave him to specify which ones) - and engine blocks is all they produce. As much as I'd like to adopt a "totally made in the USA" approach, Terry has convinced me that this is simply not feasible in today's environment.

Heck, even the original Zenith carb was a French design... not to mention the Houdaille shock absorber.

JayJay

[Oldbluoval]

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JayJay….
I’d heard same. It scares the heck out of me! What if we had to build up a big war/defense situation like WW II?
I’d hope we’d step up but do we have the resources and abilities?,
Just the basics in the supply chain seem to be problematic with us these days

[nkaminar]

I have followed Terry for years. His first attempts were in the US but the results were terrible. The blocks were missing large chunks and were completely unusable. Terry was not able to get the attention of the casting concerns. They were just not interested and did not have the expertise to do the job. It is a shame, but true. The current company in China does an excellent job. The US is very good at certain things like smart machines. Not so good at casting cylinder blocks.

[Smokedtires]

Unfortunately China is the best option. Kudos to Burtz for his resilience in producing a great option for us.

[Synchro909]

IMO, we in the west have had our security handed over to the Chinese by money hungry, short sighted accountants and shareholders. I read years ago (before things are as bad as they are now) that the west could only go to war if China consents. If they don't, they stop manufacturing for us and we are dead in the water and this does not only affect you guys in the US. Our navy can barely move a muscle without the Chinese navy monitoring them. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-...tary/101229906. This is just the latest incident of many that have happened and who knows how many times we never find out about it.
I don't intend this to be confrontational on one hand but on the other, I do.
On the bright side, one of our club members has just started his own business making pattern for foundries. His latest contract is for patterns and casting to be done and machined for ..... wait for it.... China. It will take years and a lot of political will for us to turn things around and I'm not sure we have it. This guy gives me hope though.
There, I hope I have stayed enough in neutral territory to not have this taken down but I don't think there are many on here with connections to China.

[Oldbluoval]

909
On same page!!!!

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Oldbluoval

909
On same page!!!!

IMO, the more of us there are who think this way and the louder we are, the better our chances of getting things turned around.
Hold on a minute!
That sounds like I am plotting a revolution!

[Terry Burtz, Calif]

At the MAFCA Kerrville 2022 National Convention, I gave an 87-slide, 2-hour seminar on the "New Engine" and one of the slides was titled "Why is the New Engine Made in China?"

Pasted below are the contents of that slide:

China has Quality, and a “can do” attitude
-Computers, Phones, TV’s, Machine Tools, and Engines are made in China
-From ore to finished part, the “New Engine” parts are “under one roof”.

China has Specialized Factories
-The “New Engine” parts are made in several specialized factories

China’s Cost for the “New Engine Kit” is Affordable
-China, $4K USA, $20 to 30K (Donovan was $20K, 12 years ago)

China has the Capability and we are Piggybacking
-Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Ford, GM, Fiat, Toyota, Honda, Caterpillar, and
others have paid for the infrastructure in China that we are using

Why not Manufacture the “New Engine” in the USA
-EPA, labor costs, lost capability, and “not under one roof” are problems
-Independent engine builders including Autocar, Diamond T, Hercules,
Fargo, Continental, Hall-Scott, Buda, Wisconsin, Mack, and most others
are bankrupt
-Cummins survived by going to China, Detroit Diesel survived in the USA

[Brad in Germany]

The Ford Motor Company even sold Model A's in China. Bill's Motors was one of the largest Ford dealerships in Shanghai:


....and even published advertisements proclaiming that "The New Ford Model "A" is the ideal motor car for China...":


....and even Bill's Motor's service department was well stocked with US made KR Wilson tools:


Brad in Maryland

[Jeff/Illinois]

Terry has explained this very well.

How many wedge heads of us on here would fork over $20-$30K for one new USA block assy.? Answer. None. And there would be endless bitching about the price. Model A folks are tight wads I'm sorry.

Why would you pay up to $30,000 for a suspected USA cast block when you can buy SEVEN Terry' Burtz Chinese top quality co-ordinated assy's , for ONE of the USA made ones? Plus cash left over.

Look I understand the feelings about this I have them too but it is now out of our (American) hands, for a number of reasons.

Naw I'm good with Mr. Burtz and applaud the hard work he put into this project

[Synchro909]

IMO, it's a pity things are the way they are but they are. I fully understand Terry's decision to go to China for his engines.
Terry, did you look at India or somewhere else as an option? It's not that it really makes much difference anyway.
I'm good with Mr. Burtz and applaud the hard work he put into this project

[Terry Burtz, Calif]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

IMO, it's a pity things are the way they are but they are. I fully understand Terry's decision to go to China for his engines.
Terry, did you look at India or somewhere else as an option? It's not that it really makes much difference anyway.
I'm good with Mr. Burtz and applaud the hard work he put into this project

The quantity of engines manufactured in India and other countries is small when compared to China. Most of the engines built in India are for their domestic market.

One of our team members, John Lampl, has an office in Hong Kong and has over 30 years of experience in having precision parts and assemblies made in mainland China and then importing and selling them in the United States.

I met John through Leonard Nettles. Both John and Leonard are WW2 Jeep aficionados, and John is having the Willys L134 "Go-Devil" cylinder block reproduced in China.

With John's experience, connections in China, and insistence on Quality Assurance, it was a no-brainer to use the factories and infrastructure in China that was paid for by others.

We currently have a "well-oiled machine" in place where the quality is excellent and the price is affordable.

[updraught]

What you are all griping about with China is a failure of globilization theory. Supposedly when nations get together to trade they will have to learn to get along. It was thought that China would eventually become a democracy. However, that hasn't happened. To my way of thinking blind Fredie could have seen this coming.
https://www.thoughtco.com/globalizat...nition-3026071

[jack backer]

The foundry at the Rouge was a rough place to work, hot heavy and dirty. Managers of other departments would send men ‘down there’, invariably they would quit in a matter of days.

The foundry did provide good paying jobs for blacks, who put up with the conditions.. a sign of the times,no doubt, to Fords credit if you wanted to work you could, regardless of race.

[rotorwrench]

Mainland China as a country, has all the same makings as other countries except that is is by far the largest in population. Unfortunately, the people who live there are at the mercy of their own government. So far, they have up and coming entrepreneurs like any developing country and their people are likely mostly decent folks that just want to live like the rest of us. Due to the government over site, they will always have to worry about their own survival. That fear is a way for control just like any other dictatorship.

If the parts we need are only made in China then buy them while you still can. I've purchased a lot of Chinese made parts for my Ford 800 series tractor since the Fords are still in use in China but I've noticed more and more parts are becoming unavailable as time goes by. Dealing with dictators will only last while they are making money from us. If the money flow stops then bad things will likely start to happen. Hope and pray for the best but don't expect too much for the long haul.

[aermotor]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

Mainland

If the parts we need are only made in China then buy them while you still can. I've purchased a lot of Chinese made parts for my Ford 800 series tractor since the Fords are still in use in China but I've noticed more and more parts are becoming unavailable as time goes by. Dealing with dictators will only last while they are making money from us. If the money flow stops then bad things will likely start to happen. Hope and pray for the best but don't expect too much for the long haul.

If China gets too greedy the next stop is Tiawan, which has raised quality standards in the last few years. John