The Ford Barn

Aok · 03-14-2012, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoarseWhisperer

Has anyone tried grafting a new capillary tube to an old MotorMeter Red Ball temp gauge?

Try this link

http://www.ply33.com/Repair/tempgauge

Bill in Al · 03-14-2012, 04:54 PM

Got my gauge at Wally W. under $15. Works great.

Paul from Maine · 03-14-2012, 06:49 PM

I bought my temp gauge at Tractor Supply. I put the probe in the upper hose using two fender washers and part of a toilet supply fitting. Hasn't leaked at all and was installed two years ago. My 180 degree thermostat is located above the probe. Temp stays steady at 180 degrees once the car warms up regardless of the outside air temp.

pick · 03-14-2012, 07:24 PM

with all the blood sweat & tears we have invested in our A's why wouldn't you want to know what's going on with your ride? I run mechanical temp and oil pressure gauges + since I sonetimes "push the limit" running her in an occassional hill climb I also have a tach. make an attractive panel to mount them under your dash/steering column/wherever. your call but I don't feel gauges detract from the "antique" at all.

Fred K-OR · 03-14-2012, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonC

Airsho93, a stock Model A really doesn't need a temp Gage. It shouldn't overheat under normal operation unless you have an issue. When does your Model A overheat?

I kind of go along with this idea. Is your A overheating? If so, a gauge will not stop it from overheating. If it is not overheating, you will know it if it overheats. Thus the thing to do is take some extra water along on your trip and cool it down.

I think old Henry F said something like" You don't need those things (gages), you know when it overheats, it boils over"

Good luck with your thinking about this concern. I have a Motometer on one of my A's mainly for looks but it does tell me if things are getting warm. This is about all I feel I need to do for this potential problem.

TinCup · 03-14-2012, 07:55 PM

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I used mine to help me trace down a problem and just prefer to run it. In 107-112 degree weather even well running A's overheat as we see it every summer. Here is a pic of the SW meter I used. If I find the meter show above one of these days I will swap it out.

Purdy Swoft · 03-14-2012, 09:19 PM

I had two different thermo quail caps and they never seemed to work for me. I feel that the temperature guage is the most important guage you could have with a stock model A. I use the mechanical guage that is sold by most model A parts stores. I like the pipe in the upper hose for the sending unit probe. I would hate to break one of the expensive upper water necks with the threaded hole for the probe. I figured that there was no sense in running the risk. A repro gear shift lever is the reason that the lever is so close to the guage, It doesn't touch so I have left it alone. It doesn't over heat, but I like to see how it is doing .

Airsho93 · 03-14-2012, 09:26 PM

Hey Rossofozini: Thanks about the Cub. It is a Balsa USA Cub and flies great. I am running a Zenoah G62 for power. I also like you have a 1/4 scale Cub. It was made back in the early 80s and still flying. I have a Top Flite Giant P51 Mustang ready to go. Thanks and good to know you like A's and Planes. Thanks

Ron C: It boils over on longer trips on the Hiway. I researched the pasts posts and got some advice about not overfilling it, making sure I am getting flow in the radiator. I have no cold spots anywhere on the radiator. I really think its my lack knowledge about the spark advance and carb setting. I know to retard to start the car and advance the spark to go up a steep hill. Maybe a gauge would tell me more about my driving knowlege and how to keep things adjusted just right. Thanks

Ray in La Mesa · 03-14-2012, 11:23 PM

The article in Skinned Knuckles is for most of the standard temp guages, The red ball motometer is a totally different animal as it's operating pressure is about 10 (ten) times that of most the rest of the guages.Williamson's Instruments in Arkansas (www.williamson.com) rebuilt three for me some time ago but they were expensive,don't know if they still do them. Jason, I don't have the original style special stud you are looking for but do have an adapter a friend made to use the standard temp gauge sending unit fitting, email me. I felt the original stud that came with the red ball was to far removed from the water jacket to give an accurate reading. Forty years ago while in college I built up a homemade adapter to duplicate the original stud. I took four head nuts, drilled out the threads of three of them so the sending unit bulb would fit through and welded them together in a stack- the bottom one I left the threads in to screw on the original stud, Then I took a wheel stud, (lug nut screws onto) and drilled it out to allow the sending bulb to fit through and welded it to the top of the head nut stack, the threads match the original sending unit cap. It worked but I still felt it was to far remove from the water jacket.

John LaVoy · 03-14-2012, 11:26 PM

Years ago Gaslight use to carry the head stud. Also years ago I had the capillary tube changed at a shop in San Francisco, but they are gone now. I extended the tube and used the probe in the hose trick mentioned above.

Of course they now make the goose neck with the place to attach the probe and we have that on the sedan. DON'T use the one on the inlet to the block it shows the temperature of the water that has gone through the radiator and won't show you how hot the engine is.

If you choose to go modern any mechanical gauge will work hooking it up to the hose or goose neck location. Just use a holder either the double unit someone mentioned or the one that uses the two bottom screws on the instrument panel and you are good to go

Jordan · 03-14-2012, 11:46 PM

I wouldn't even take a model a on a tour without a temp gauge. It's one of those things in my eyes that is absolutely necessary if you're going to drive your car. My car doesn't over heat, but I like to know what it's running at so I can tell if it were to over heat. Just buy one of the cheap $30 gauges at autozone. The expensive $85 ones out of the parts books don't work right- I've had 2 fail on me and i know of several others.

azmodela · 03-15-2012, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordan

I wouldn't even take a model a on a tour without a temp gauge. It's one of those things in my eyes that is absolutely necessary if you're going to drive your car. My car doesn't over heat, but I like to know what it's running at so I can tell if it were to over heat. Just buy one of the cheap $30 gauges at autozone. The expensive $85 ones out of the parts books don't work right- I've had 2 fail on me and i know of several others.

Cheap gauges will give off wildly different readings. By cheap, I mean anything under $400, even the autometer gauges. Look at what the pros use, it's not from auto zone. Only rely on they typical gauge as an indicator that something is going wrong. If it shows 180, it could be 10 degrees (or more) off either direction. Still nothing to worry about, but should the needle dive in either direction, they you have something to worry about.

HoarseWhisperer · 03-15-2012, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray in La Mesa

The article in Skinned Knuckles is for most of the standard temp guages, The red ball motometer is a totally different animal as it's operating pressure is about 10 (ten) times that of most the rest of the guages.Williamson's Instruments in Arkansas (www.williamson.com) rebuilt three for me some time ago but they were expensive,don't know if they still do them. Jason,

I had sent the Redball to Williamson's Instruments, plus a shops in Oregon and Michigan, which was returned "unrepairable". Never did find out exactly why.

My understanding is that the sensor which inserts into the rad hose was factory sealed with ether. The gauge looked good mounted under the instrument panel, but I don't care for accessories that don't actually function, so it's now garage art.

RonC · 03-15-2012, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airsho93

Ron C: It boils over on longer trips on the Hiway. I researched the pasts posts and got some advice about not overfilling it, making sure I am getting flow in the radiator. I have no cold spots anywhere on the radiator. I really think its my lack knowledge about the spark advance and carb setting. I know to retard to start the car and advance the spark to go up a steep hill. Maybe a gauge would tell me more about my driving knowlege and how to keep things adjusted just right. Thanks

You could still have flow issues. To much flow for the radiator from clogging or excessive pumping including loss through overflow or cap gasket. Spark all the way down while driving for the novice. btw slightly retard your spark going up steep hills. Listen to the engine. Is your car timed correctly?

Airsho93 · 03-15-2012, 11:22 AM

Hey RonC: I think I am in the ball park. All the way retarded and it starts easy but runs kind of doggy. I pull it up about half way and it smooths out and runs pretty good. All the way advanced and it runs really to good and the idle goes way up there.

RonC · 03-15-2012, 12:38 PM

You can check your timing as follows:

With the lever all the way up, emergency brake on, shifter in neutral, distributor body, cap and rotor off, turn on the ignition. Withdraw the timing pin, turn it around and reinsert it into the timing cover. While turning the engine over with crank, press in on timing pin. If properly timed, just as the pin seats in the recess, a spark should occur between the breaker points. If a spark does not occur, check if the slightest movement of the spark lever creates a spark between the points. You may have to try this a few times to be sure it’s right. If a spark still does not occur retime your engine. The further down you move your lever until a spark occurs will give you an idea how retarded your timing is. If it sparks before the pin falls into the timing gear hole your timing is advanced. Sometimes you won’t get a spark at all if your point contacts are oxidized.
You may have to lightly clean them with a point file. Lightly so as not to change your gap.

Kirby1374 · 03-15-2012, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul from Maine

I bought my temp gauge at Tractor Supply. I put the probe in the upper hose using two fender washers and part of a toilet supply fitting. Hasn't leaked at all and was installed two years ago. My 180 degree thermostat is located above the probe. Temp stays steady at 180 degrees once the car warms up regardless of the outside air temp.

Paul, I'm stealing your idea.....lol

Airsho93 · 03-15-2012, 01:52 PM

RonC: I messed with getting this timed for a couple hours. Mostley trying to follow posts and book instructions. I finally would just move the rotor a little at a time to get it where it is now.

Your idea is so simple and smart. I am going to do as you described to see where it's at. That is a cool method. I like it. Thanks

Fred K-OR · 03-15-2012, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airsho93

RonC: I messed with getting this timed for a couple hours. Mostley trying to follow posts and book instructions. I finally would just move the rotor a little at a time to get it where it is now.

Your idea is so simple and smart. I am going to do as you described to see where it's at. That is a cool method. I like it. Thanks

You can also buy a tool from most of the vendors that helps you set the timing. I think it is made by NuRex.

RonC · 03-15-2012, 02:48 PM

Airsho93, If you have to retime, check and regap your points to .020 if necessary first.

If you are not familiar with the “feel” of using feeler gauges to set gaps, I recommend setting your points with a dial indicator to get an accurate gap. Harbor freight has cheap dial indicators and magnetic bases that are just good enough for setting your points. Put the magnetic base on your head, attach the dial and set the dial pointer on the back of your movable point arm. Loosen your cam and rotate the cam until the points are fully closed. Set your gauge to zero. Rotate the cam around a few times and note the variation in dial readings. Each lobe reading should be within .0005 of each other. If not close to that then get a new cam. This is one way to see if you have a junk repro cam. Now set your points to .020. (new points at .022). Recheck with the dial by rotating your loose cam around. Rotate the cam around a few times and note the variation in the setting. You can also wiggle your shaft and note the bushing wear and how it affects the point gap. The more in spec you are the better your car will run. When done wipe a little cam lube on the cam. Not a lot because you can’t get any on the point contacts or your points will burn out. Once you get it right you can recheck with a feeler gauge so you know how it should "feel", a slight drag on the gauge.

03-14-2012, 04:54 PM	#22
Bill in Al Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Pell City (New London) Al Posts: 317	Re: Temp gauges for the A Got my gauge at Wally W. under $15. Works great.

03-14-2012, 07:24 PM	#24
pick Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: New Haven, IN Posts: 86	Re: Temp gauges for the A with all the blood sweat & tears we have invested in our A's why wouldn't you want to know what's going on with your ride? I run mechanical temp and oil pressure gauges + since I sonetimes "push the limit" running her in an occassional hill climb I also have a tach. make an attractive panel to mount them under your dash/steering column/wherever. your call but I don't feel gauges detract from the "antique" at all.

03-14-2012, 09:19 PM	#27
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Temp gauges for the A I had two different thermo quail caps and they never seemed to work for me. I feel that the temperature guage is the most important guage you could have with a stock model A. I use the mechanical guage that is sold by most model A parts stores. I like the pipe in the upper hose for the sending unit probe. I would hate to break one of the expensive upper water necks with the threaded hole for the probe. I figured that there was no sense in running the risk. A repro gear shift lever is the reason that the lever is so close to the guage, It doesn't touch so I have left it alone. It doesn't over heat, but I like to see how it is doing .

03-14-2012, 09:26 PM	#28
Airsho93 Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: MO Posts: 49	Re: Temp gauges for the A Reply Hey Rossofozini: Thanks about the Cub. It is a Balsa USA Cub and flies great. I am running a Zenoah G62 for power. I also like you have a 1/4 scale Cub. It was made back in the early 80s and still flying. I have a Top Flite Giant P51 Mustang ready to go. Thanks and good to know you like A's and Planes. Thanks Ron C: It boils over on longer trips on the Hiway. I researched the pasts posts and got some advice about not overfilling it, making sure I am getting flow in the radiator. I have no cold spots anywhere on the radiator. I really think its my lack knowledge about the spark advance and carb setting. I know to retard to start the car and advance the spark to go up a steep hill. Maybe a gauge would tell me more about my driving knowlege and how to keep things adjusted just right. Thanks

03-14-2012, 11:23 PM	#29
Ray in La Mesa Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: La Mesa Ca Posts: 1,166	Re: Temp gauges for the A The article in Skinned Knuckles is for most of the standard temp guages, The red ball motometer is a totally different animal as it's operating pressure is about 10 (ten) times that of most the rest of the guages.Williamson's Instruments in Arkansas (www.williamson.com) rebuilt three for me some time ago but they were expensive,don't know if they still do them. Jason, I don't have the original style special stud you are looking for but do have an adapter a friend made to use the standard temp gauge sending unit fitting, email me. I felt the original stud that came with the red ball was to far removed from the water jacket to give an accurate reading. Forty years ago while in college I built up a homemade adapter to duplicate the original stud. I took four head nuts, drilled out the threads of three of them so the sending unit bulb would fit through and welded them together in a stack- the bottom one I left the threads in to screw on the original stud, Then I took a wheel stud, (lug nut screws onto) and drilled it out to allow the sending bulb to fit through and welded it to the top of the head nut stack, the threads match the original sending unit cap. It worked but I still felt it was to far remove from the water jacket.

03-14-2012, 11:26 PM	#30
John LaVoy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Rocklin, CA Posts: 1,219	Re: Temp gauges for the A Years ago Gaslight use to carry the head stud. Also years ago I had the capillary tube changed at a shop in San Francisco, but they are gone now. I extended the tube and used the probe in the hose trick mentioned above. Of course they now make the goose neck with the place to attach the probe and we have that on the sedan. DON'T use the one on the inlet to the block it shows the temperature of the water that has gone through the radiator and won't show you how hot the engine is. If you choose to go modern any mechanical gauge will work hooking it up to the hose or goose neck location. Just use a holder either the double unit someone mentioned or the one that uses the two bottom screws on the instrument panel and you are good to go

03-14-2012, 11:46 PM	#31
Jordan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ft. Worth Posts: 1,006	Re: Temp gauges for the A I wouldn't even take a model a on a tour without a temp gauge. It's one of those things in my eyes that is absolutely necessary if you're going to drive your car. My car doesn't over heat, but I like to know what it's running at so I can tell if it were to over heat. Just buy one of the cheap $30 gauges at autozone. The expensive $85 ones out of the parts books don't work right- I've had 2 fail on me and i know of several others. __________________ Cowtown A's

03-15-2012, 11:22 AM	#35
Airsho93 Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: MO Posts: 49	Re: Temp gauges for the A Hey RonC: I think I am in the ball park. All the way retarded and it starts easy but runs kind of doggy. I pull it up about half way and it smooths out and runs pretty good. All the way advanced and it runs really to good and the idle goes way up there.

03-15-2012, 12:38 PM	#36
RonC Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 1,868	Re: Temp gauges for the A You can check your timing as follows: With the lever all the way up, emergency brake on, shifter in neutral, distributor body, cap and rotor off, turn on the ignition. Withdraw the timing pin, turn it around and reinsert it into the timing cover. While turning the engine over with crank, press in on timing pin. If properly timed, just as the pin seats in the recess, a spark should occur between the breaker points. If a spark does not occur, check if the slightest movement of the spark lever creates a spark between the points. You may have to try this a few times to be sure it’s right. If a spark still does not occur retime your engine. The further down you move your lever until a spark occurs will give you an idea how retarded your timing is. If it sparks before the pin falls into the timing gear hole your timing is advanced. Sometimes you won’t get a spark at all if your point contacts are oxidized. You may have to lightly clean them with a point file. Lightly so as not to change your gap.

03-15-2012, 01:52 PM	#38
Airsho93 Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: MO Posts: 49	Re: Temp gauges for the A RonC: I messed with getting this timed for a couple hours. Mostley trying to follow posts and book instructions. I finally would just move the rotor a little at a time to get it where it is now. Your idea is so simple and smart. I am going to do as you described to see where it's at. That is a cool method. I like it. Thanks

03-15-2012, 02:48 PM	#40
RonC Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 1,868	Re: Temp gauges for the A Airsho93, If you have to retime, check and regap your points to .020 if necessary first. If you are not familiar with the “feel” of using feeler gauges to set gaps, I recommend setting your points with a dial indicator to get an accurate gap. Harbor freight has cheap dial indicators and magnetic bases that are just good enough for setting your points. Put the magnetic base on your head, attach the dial and set the dial pointer on the back of your movable point arm. Loosen your cam and rotate the cam until the points are fully closed. Set your gauge to zero. Rotate the cam around a few times and note the variation in dial readings. Each lobe reading should be within .0005 of each other. If not close to that then get a new cam. This is one way to see if you have a junk repro cam. Now set your points to .020. (new points at .022). Recheck with the dial by rotating your loose cam around. Rotate the cam around a few times and note the variation in the setting. You can also wiggle your shaft and note the bushing wear and how it affects the point gap. The more in spec you are the better your car will run. When done wipe a little cam lube on the cam. Not a lot because you can’t get any on the point contacts or your points will burn out. Once you get it right you can recheck with a feeler gauge so you know how it should "feel", a slight drag on the gauge.