The Ford Barn

PaulyFL · 02-14-2022, 10:16 AM

Hi! New member here. Posted on another forum without any real answers. Maybe someone here knows?

We have recently became the caretakers of a 1936 Ford 5 window Deluxe Coupe. We have no history of the vehicle and are muddling our way through learning about it. We grew up wrenching on cars, but never tinkered with "the old stuff", that is anything pre-WWII.

We have looked (internet and videos) but cannot find how the light switch is supposed to operate from the driver's perspective. We believe ours is not operating correctly from what we have learned through diagrams and pictures of the switch.

From those we believe that you turn the switch to the left (CCW) once for parking, left again for low beams and once more left for the high beams:

OFF
Left 1 = Park
Left 2 = Low
Left 3 = High

Currently, our switch turns to only two position: Once to the left (CCW) = high beams, and once to the right (CW) = low beams.

OFF
Left 1 = High

OFF
Right 1 = Low

We don't believe this is operating correctly and would like verification of how it is actually supposed to operate - from the driver's perspective - before we take the switch apart.

The previous owner converted the lights to 12v and added a United Pacific A5007 turn signal switch. Don't think has any bearing on how the factory light switch should be operating, but wanted to give a complete picture of what is connected.

Don Rogers · 02-14-2022, 10:32 AM

Here's the correct switch orientation.

Don

PaulyFL · 02-14-2022, 11:14 AM

Thanks! That is very interesting.

The diagram and pictures of the switch would indicate otherwise...

Guess we have to take it apart to see what is going on.

Tim Ayers · 02-14-2022, 11:49 AM

I just through through this over the weekend. I found that the new, aftermarket replacement switch had too much spring pressure around the horn ground and that the contact for the horn ground was also too high. It put too much pressure on the horn rod and would not allow it to turn. Basically, it was binding the rod up.

Thankfully, I had an old NOS light switch harness. Ford ganged up some of the wires and soldered them to the terminals in the switch as seen in the picture. The power to horn was doubled since there were two horns, etc.

I was able to use the NOS switch after I grafted it to the new harness.

The point being, if you are using a replacement switch, double check that your horn rod still turns to activate the lights. We were pulling our hair out trying to figure out the problem.

We even cut coils from the spring hoping it would reduce the pressure, but it still didn't work.

Just an FYI for you or anyone replacing this switch.

Terry,OH · 02-14-2022, 12:13 PM

The 4 positions of the switch as shown by Mr Rogers is also in the 1936 Owners Manual. As mentioned on the Club web site the wiring diagram is incorrect. In the photo of the switch you can see the three spots for the off position, the three do not have any of the brass contacts. Below is the correct wiring of the terminal plate from the wire side.

PaulyFL · 02-14-2022, 02:57 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry,OH

The 4 positions of the switch as shown by Mr Rogers is also in the 1936 Owners Manual. As mentioned on the Club web site the wiring diagram is incorrect. In the photo of the switch you can see the three spots for the off position, the three do not have any of the brass contacts. Below is the correct wiring of the terminal plate from the wire side.

Thanks Terry, OH!!

Great information - will have to pull it out to verify what was done previously

PaulyFL · 02-14-2022, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

I just through through this over the weekend. I found that the new, aftermarket replacement switch had too much spring pressure around the horn ground and that the contact for the horn ground was also too high. It put too much pressure on the horn rod and would not allow it to turn. Basically, it was binding the rod up.

Thankfully, I had an old NOS light switch harness. Ford ganged up some of the wires and soldered them to the terminals in the switch as seen in the picture. The power to horn was doubled since there were two horns, etc.

I was able to use the NOS switch after I grafted it to the new harness.

The point being, if you are using a replacement switch, double check that your horn rod still turns to activate the lights. We were pulling our hair out trying to figure out the problem.

We even cut coils from the spring hoping it would reduce the pressure, but it still didn't work.

Just an FYI for you or anyone replacing this switch.

Thanks Tim!

Great tip to look for when we pull the switch out to verify the wiring.

It seems to be an repo harness with a repo switch.

Tim Ayers · 02-14-2022, 03:12 PM

If it works, no problem. Mine did not. Fooling with it, if we let off the pressure the slightest bit, it worked. Comparing the NOS and aftermarket switch, the difference was obvious.

PaulyFL · 02-14-2022, 03:13 PM

Oh - here's a thought: the diagram makes it seem like it goes to the left 3 times, but the other side of the switch - the top side that the spider controls - that is what makes it only go from Off to the left for the headlights (low then high) and from Off to the right once for the park lights.

No diagrams on that top piece......

Given the above information from the other members is True, then our switch is still wired wrong or there is something wrong with the top part of the switch that the spider controls.

Either way - it means taking it apart and verifying everything.

I'll post what we find when we get around to taking it apart.

Thanks again for the great information!!

PaulyFL · 02-14-2022, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

If it works, no problem. Mine did not. Fooling with it, if we let off the pressure the slightest bit, it worked. Comparing the NOS and aftermarket switch, the difference was obvious.

Are there visual cues to determine NOS from aftermarket?

Tim Ayers · 02-14-2022, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulyFL

Are there visual cues to determine NOS from aftermarket?

On mine, the aftermarket one had the the wires with slip on spade connectors. The NOS unit had them soldered to the connections.

Also, the detents on the aftermarket one were really shallow. The NOS one had nice deep detents.

If it all works, then no problem. Just check your horn rod switch and make sure it turns correctly before you button up the job.

The biggest difference was the length and tension of the horn ground contact. It was longer and the spring had way too much tension on the aftermarket unit which bound up the switch.

Viv W · 02-14-2022, 04:42 PM

Check to see that you HAVE a 35/6 switch body. Someone may have fitted a switch body from a later vehicle.
My 1935 had been changed to I think a 39 switch body and loom, it only went to 2 positions and it had a floor operated dip switch with a light relay fitted in part of the loom. When I fitted a new 1935/6 loom it took me a while to figure out the light switch body was wrong, and I can't remember what I did to modify the switch body to make it go to the 3 positions.
There are several versions of light switch bodies, look carefully inside them to see if it will let the switch rotate fully.
regards
Viv.

koates · 02-14-2022, 06:10 PM

I think Viv W has the correct answer here. You have the 1938-39 switch fitted which also uses a floor dip switch for low & high beams. Also the bunch of connectors up the front of the chassis where the two shorter lamp harnesses connect to the main harness may be crossed up. Pull your light switch and harness out and fit the correct 1932-36 switch and harness. Regards, Kevin.

PaulyFL · 02-15-2022, 11:30 AM

Once again - Thanks everyone for the great information and what to look for.

There is no floor switch present for lights, only the starter. Doesn't mean they didn't use a later model switch and "made it work".

Once we take it apart, we'll see what is going on and will post what we find.

PaulyFL · 03-14-2022, 11:21 AM

UPDATE:

Just wanted to update everyone on this issue.

Since the lights do work, the owners have at this time opted to leave it as is.

If there comes a time we do have to take it apart, I will post pics of our findings

Thanks again for all the great information on what and where to look.

02-14-2022, 10:16 AM	#1
PaulyFL Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2022 Posts: 8	1936 - Lighting Switch Hi! New member here. Posted on another forum without any real answers. Maybe someone here knows? We have recently became the caretakers of a 1936 Ford 5 window Deluxe Coupe. We have no history of the vehicle and are muddling our way through learning about it. We grew up wrenching on cars, but never tinkered with "the old stuff", that is anything pre-WWII. We have looked (internet and videos) but cannot find how the light switch is supposed to operate from the driver's perspective. We believe ours is not operating correctly from what we have learned through diagrams and pictures of the switch. From those we believe that you turn the switch to the left (CCW) once for parking, left again for low beams and once more left for the high beams: OFF Left 1 = Park Left 2 = Low Left 3 = High Currently, our switch turns to only two position: Once to the left (CCW) = high beams, and once to the right (CW) = low beams. OFF Left 1 = High OFF Right 1 = Low We don't believe this is operating correctly and would like verification of how it is actually supposed to operate - from the driver's perspective - before we take the switch apart. The previous owner converted the lights to 12v and added a United Pacific A5007 turn signal switch. Don't think has any bearing on how the factory light switch should be operating, but wanted to give a complete picture of what is connected.

02-14-2022, 11:49 AM	#4
Tim Ayers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 6,181	Re: 1936 - Lighting Switch I just through through this over the weekend. I found that the new, aftermarket replacement switch had too much spring pressure around the horn ground and that the contact for the horn ground was also too high. It put too much pressure on the horn rod and would not allow it to turn. Basically, it was binding the rod up. Thankfully, I had an old NOS light switch harness. Ford ganged up some of the wires and soldered them to the terminals in the switch as seen in the picture. The power to horn was doubled since there were two horns, etc. I was able to use the NOS switch after I grafted it to the new harness. The point being, if you are using a replacement switch, double check that your horn rod still turns to activate the lights. We were pulling our hair out trying to figure out the problem. We even cut coils from the spring hoping it would reduce the pressure, but it still didn't work. Just an FYI for you or anyone replacing this switch. Last edited by Tim Ayers; 02-14-2022 at 12:10 PM.

02-14-2022, 03:12 PM	#8
Tim Ayers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 6,181	Re: 1936 - Lighting Switch If it works, no problem. Mine did not. Fooling with it, if we let off the pressure the slightest bit, it worked. Comparing the NOS and aftermarket switch, the difference was obvious.

02-14-2022, 03:13 PM	#9
PaulyFL Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2022 Posts: 8	Re: 1936 - Lighting Switch Oh - here's a thought: the diagram makes it seem like it goes to the left 3 times, but the other side of the switch - the top side that the spider controls - that is what makes it only go from Off to the left for the headlights (low then high) and from Off to the right once for the park lights. No diagrams on that top piece...... Given the above information from the other members is True, then our switch is still wired wrong or there is something wrong with the top part of the switch that the spider controls. Either way - it means taking it apart and verifying everything. I'll post what we find when we get around to taking it apart. Thanks again for the great information!!

02-14-2022, 04:42 PM	#12
Viv W Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Harare Zimbabwe Posts: 160	Re: 1936 - Lighting Switch Check to see that you HAVE a 35/6 switch body. Someone may have fitted a switch body from a later vehicle. My 1935 had been changed to I think a 39 switch body and loom, it only went to 2 positions and it had a floor operated dip switch with a light relay fitted in part of the loom. When I fitted a new 1935/6 loom it took me a while to figure out the light switch body was wrong, and I can't remember what I did to modify the switch body to make it go to the 3 positions. There are several versions of light switch bodies, look carefully inside them to see if it will let the switch rotate fully. regards Viv.

02-14-2022, 06:10 PM	#13
koates Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Melbourne Australia. Posts: 2,079	Re: 1936 - Lighting Switch I think Viv W has the correct answer here. You have the 1938-39 switch fitted which also uses a floor dip switch for low & high beams. Also the bunch of connectors up the front of the chassis where the two shorter lamp harnesses connect to the main harness may be crossed up. Pull your light switch and harness out and fit the correct 1932-36 switch and harness. Regards, Kevin.

02-15-2022, 11:30 AM	#14
PaulyFL Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2022 Posts: 8	Re: 1936 - Lighting Switch Once again - Thanks everyone for the great information and what to look for. There is no floor switch present for lights, only the starter. Doesn't mean they didn't use a later model switch and "made it work". Once we take it apart, we'll see what is going on and will post what we find.

03-14-2022, 11:21 AM	#15
PaulyFL Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2022 Posts: 8	Re: 1936 - Lighting Switch UPDATE: Just wanted to update everyone on this issue. Since the lights do work, the owners have at this time opted to leave it as is. If there comes a time we do have to take it apart, I will post pics of our findings Thanks again for all the great information on what and where to look.