Restamping a restamped block

[mcorrell]

Has anyone ever tried to do this? I tried restamping my car's engine while in the car after grinding off the original engine number. The goal was to make the engine number match the chassis number and title
Long story short the new number was not deep enough to be easily read and when I attempted to deepen the newly stamped number I double stamped a couple of them. So, it appears I'll have to grind the cast number pad all the way off.
Has anyone ever tried to solder up the number and then restamp or possibly solder on a copper sheet over the cast pad? I am thinking that once painted over it wouldn't be noticable.

[WHN]

If it was my engine. I would first attempt to fill it in and than re stamp number.

I have had a number of re stamped blocks over the years. Some were done very well others not so good. They all made it thru DMV.

Paperwork needs to be correct. In a Model A, engine number is key. You can’t readily see number on frame.

[Chris Haynes]

It is illegal in every state to remove or modify a manufacturers number. Once you have removed the stamping the number boss has lost its cast appearance making it obvious that it has been tampered with. Unless you have spent the big bucks for the reproduction Ford stamps it will be obvious it has been tampered with. Will the date cast code on your block match the date of the number you are putting on it?

[ronn]

a good 40% or more of the As out there have a replacement motor.


why bother to change any of it?


drive it like you stole it.

[mcorrell]

I don't want to pay for a bonded title. The car has been in the family over 40 years, but now I am in another state and they will not issue a regular title unless the engine number and VIN on the title match. The engine is the same year as the car

[wrndln]

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Do you have access to "original" engine/frame stamps? Many model A clubs have either a set of original stamps like our club does or very well made duplicates. Note that 28/29 engine/frame numbers and 30/31 numbers have a different style of 9 and 1. I would do what WHN suggested and fill in the original numbers, letter and stars. If the engine number is the same number of digits, you could leave the stars and the A and just restamp the numbers after filling in the old ones with something like J B Weld. You need to really hit the stamps hard to create legible stampings. I have thought about restamping an engine block myself. I think if you stuck a maginet right below the place where you want to stamp the new numbers, that would align the numbers as well as holding the stamps in place so you can hit the stamps hard.
Rusty Nelson

[ronn]

ok correll, that makes total sense.

[Kurt in NJ]

a needle scaler cam make a texture similar to cast

[rotorwrench]

I would want to know if the frame number matches the title. Most states allow a frame number rubbing as confirmation. Get it witnessed and notarized and it becomes the appropriate VIN. The engine number is irrelevant after it is changed. The body, front left fender, fender apron, and running board may have to be moved or removed but the body only needs to be lifted enough to see it. It's a lot of work but it will give piece of mind.

[mcorrell]

My state, North Carolina, only recognizes the engine number as the VIN. I asked about getting a rub or picture of the frame number. My dad bought the car in the 1980s and it currently has a valid Ohio title and Antique tag that expires in 2039. He sent it to me in 2015 when I got it running (after a long time in his barn). I need to title it in my name so that if something happens to my dad the car won't be held up in court with his estate. That is the only reason I even care to title it in NC. He is in good health but is in his late 70s.


The DMV will send an "inspector" to check the VIN (engine number) against the title and they will run a search for the VIN in a stolen cars database as well. I have bought other cars from out of state which went through the same process. Fortunately all were numbers matching cars. I doubt the inspector has the knowledge or experience to know what the actual Ford numbers look like, as long as they are in the correct location and format. I figure that when painted over it will look original enough. I did roughen up the surface a bit before stamping. Its just the two slight double strikes that bother me, and the fact they aren't as deep as they probably should be. I could fill and re-stamp the double stamped numbers.

[mcorrell]

Originally Posted by wrndln

Do you have access to "original" engine/frame stamps? Many model A clubs have either a set of original stamps like our club does or very well made duplicates. Note that 28/29 engine/frame numbers and 30/31 numbers have a different style of 9 and 1. I would do what WHN suggested and fill in the original numbers, letter and stars. If the engine number is the same number of digits, you could leave the stars and the A and just restamp the numbers after filling in the old ones with something like J B Weld. You need to really hit the stamps hard to create legible stampings. I have thought about restamping an engine block myself. I think if you stuck a maginet right below the place where you want to stamp the new numbers, that would align the numbers as well as holding the stamps in place so you can hit the stamps hard.
Rusty Nelson

The OE numbers are long gone, but I may be able to fill the double strike numbers and try again or just fill everything and start over. I've thought about different epoxies but it seems solder should work as well. The biggest problem is getting a good, hard hit on them. I used a 24" extension to hold the number and a magnet as you suggest for alignment (vertically) and used a 3 lb hammer. The depth is maybe .020" deep at most.

[Ordsgt]

I am not an expert on NC vehicle law, but I would be hesitant to assume that the DMV investigator has no knowledge of model A serial number appearance. All he has to do is look it up on the internet prior to arriving. He already will know what he is to inspect. I understand the reason you want to do it but what is the downside if he doesn't accept it? It may be cheaper and easier on you in the long run to go by the state code as it is

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by mcorrell

The OE numbers are long gone, but I may be able to fill the double strike numbers and try again or just fill everything and start over. I've thought about different epoxies but it seems solder should work as well. The biggest problem is getting a good, hard hit on them. I used a 24" extension to hold the number and a magnet as you suggest for alignment (vertically) and used a 3 lb hammer. The depth is maybe .020" deep at most.

Most DMV Officers are now going to use an acid on the metal to detect any alterations. Any form of epoxy or substance other than the parent metal will be a 'flag' for them. As Kurt mentioned, a needle scaler will change the texture (-and the density) of the block VIN pad where you may be able to get away with it ...providing there pad has not been ground away too much. If so, then a bonded title is your most inexpensive route. Otherwise, using another engine block that has not been tampered with is the next option.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Most DMV Officers are now going to use an acid on the metal to detect any alterations. Any form of epoxy or substance other than the parent metal will be a 'flag' for them. As Kurt mentioned, a needle scaler will change the texture (-and the density) of the block VIN pad where you may be able to get away with it ...providing there pad has not been ground away too much. If so, then a bonded title is your most inexpensive route. Otherwise, using another engine block that has not been tampered with is the next option.

I titled an out-of-state phaeton last year and the inspectors didn't test the metal with acid or anything else. Just visually checked the engine serial.

[Chris in WNC]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

I titled an out-of-state phaeton last year and the inspectors didn't test the metal with acid or anything else. Just visually checked the engine serial.

This is consistent with my experience having 3 different cars from out of state inspected by NC DMV.

Don't over-think this, just re-stamp and move on......

[Mulletwagon]

In Florida the block number on an out of state purchase can be confirmed by a notary agent - who does not know squat about Model As.

[ronn]

since your tag is good till 2039............wow!


I would just have my father sign the car over to me and leave it tagged in his name.


its a model A not a million dollar home.

[WHN]

Paperwork,paperwork!

You need back up paperwork no matter what type or how good the engine number is.

If you have supporting documentation, title, old registrations, old insurance policy’s, bill of sale. If you can show a chain of ownership. Now you can support your claim of ownership.

I have had blocks with engine numbers that used stamps that don’t even come close to being like Fords. DMV never questioned style of stamping, DMV just wanted to see the supporting paperwork.

Bonded title is another way to go.

Forty years of paperwork, it might take a little longer, but how is someone going to question ownership.

I have “Never” had a problem. Go to DMV prepared.

Plan the work, work the plan.

Enjoy.

[Mike Peters]

A machinist once told me that you can simply peen VIN numbers on a Model A block with a ball peen hammer. Take a small ball peen hammer, hold it by the handle on your offending number, and hit it about a hundred times with another hammer. Eventually, the number will fill in. It won't do a perfect job, so may not work for you. Like Rusty says, hit the new number stamp as hard as you can.

[TerryO]

Has anyone tried the body tags available from the venders? I changed toe engine in one of my A's several years ago so there is no number to match the paperwork and I'm thinking of mounting a body tag somewhere that would be somewhat visible. I'm not trying to commit fraud and I still have the block with the matching number.



TOB