59a Flat head

[Richard]

I am overhauling my flathead for my car. I am running a 3.75 stroke .080 over USA pistons. I decked and bored the engine myself with the help of a master machinist. i need more parts to complete the engine. I will post more pictures of the engine block soon. thank you

[GaryTx]

Look forward to your rebuild on the Ford Barn. Thanks for sharing. Gary

[Richard]

thank you. The next priority is the valve train. I am getting new valves or nos Ford valves. i will post pictures of the valves, guides, lifters and clips as i get them. Here is an original valve marked "ford USA IS". this came from the engine originally which was rebuilt who knows when.

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

You haven't said what the engine is, 59AB or 8BA style. The valves are 59AB style with split guides. If I was you I would install 8BA valve brain with straight stem valves and solid guides. Walt

[Richard]

I machined the block myself with the help of a master machinist.

[Heard]

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Richard, that is cool, man. I bet you learned some stuff machining that block.

[Richard]

i learned how to hone, and set up and true a Storm-Vulcan decking machine.

[john in illinois]

The block looks nice. Interested in rest of rebuild.

John

[Richard]

I need some 10/10 bearings, rings, balancing and a cam.

[GOSFAST]

I see this is an older post, but I would put bronze guides and stainless valves in it, now is the time!!

I would also recommend a "moly" ring pack, preferably a "light" one.

Some "Viton" stems seals wouldn't hurt either.

Drilled the lifter bores??

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Good luck! They run real nice when they're done correctly.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by Richard

i learned how to hone, and set up and true a Storm-Vulcan decking machine.

Comment on the decking, a flathead block really should not be decked because of how thin the upper deck is. Hope it was a very thin cut! Looks good, I love doing almost all of the work myself.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by GOSFAST

I see this is an older post, but I would put bronze guides and stainless valves in it, now is the time!!

I would also recommend a "moly" ring pack, preferably a "light" one.

Some "Viton" stems seals wouldn't hurt either.

Drilled the lifter bores??

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Good luck! They run real nice when they're done correctly.

Hi Gary:

By stem seals are you talking about the ones that slip on and are retained with a spring or the larger ones that go around the guide like stock?

Thanks,

Tim

[Richard]

i think i took off .008 off the top.

[Richard]

nothing much to worry about.

[Richard]

i was looking at a metric set of rings. The Hastings brand is still USA made, very high quality i believe.

[Ralph Moore]

Why "metric" rings?

[GOSFAST]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Hi Gary:

By stem seals are you talking about the ones that slip on and are retained with a spring or the larger ones that go around the guide like stock? Thanks,

Tim

Hi Tim, the stem seals go on the guides after machining top section .500"! (See the photo below, shows the bronze and the "Viton" seal)

Originally Posted by Richard

i was looking at a metric set of rings. The Hastings brand is still USA made, very high quality i believe.

You can only use "metric" rings if the pistons have been made to accept them, the pistons in your photo aren't for the "metrics"!

The "metric" ring packs normally consist of a 1.5mm top, a 1.5mm second, and 3.0mm oil ring. This is the combo Ross supplies with theirs, we also use a 4.00mm oil ring occasionally on certain builds.

The lightweight ring pack is worth a bunch of HP, but the block needs the correct ring finish. We also "block-plate" finish hone all the blocks we service, even the Flatheads (also in photo).

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Here's the bronze-lined guides, the "Viton" seals, and the block-plate for honing! We use the same plate as a fixture to "pin" the heads/gaskets to the block, like the SBC's. This procedure works really well and is all done by machine, not by hand. We are able to "pin" a block/heads today and pin new heads if necessary at a later time with no "fit" problem!

[Tim Ayers]

Hi Gary:

Thanks. Makes sense.

Tim.

[russcc]

If you are looking for original Ford NOS parts, Jim at SFP in Rosemead CA has about 7,000 NOS 8Ba Ford guides. Fred at SSO has NOS Ford bearsing, cam gears and gaskets among other things. I also got some NOS engine parts from Ron at Dennis Carpenter, and Tom at Then & Now in Weymouth MA. No need to put foreign parts in your flathead when there is still original NOS Ford parts available.

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

Don't forget to recon the rods. Walt

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Walt Dupont--Me.

Don't forget to recon the rods. Walt

Any thoughts about the NOS French rods? At $125, it seems like a great deal for I'm sure reconning them has to be more.

[Richard]

Gary; a buddy of mine uses metric rings on his four groove pistons with no issues. I will verify if the finish needs to be addressed with the rings i use.
Those bronze guides look like they would work but would the umbrella seals keep the oil from getting to the valve stems and cause an issue?

I agree with you gary a hone plate is the best way to go.

[Richard]

Tim, you are correct i need to recondition the connecting rods as well. i will look at the french stuff since you mentioned it. Keep in mind If i race scta i need to use domestic parts. I was thinking of grinding off some of the casting flaws and roughness. I ground some of the roughness off the crank counter weights. it took a little work and needs more to get more smooth. the logic behind this is, the result would be a quicker throttle response, high revs, and a more balanced engine because the oil and air will slide off the counter weights when the crank spins through the air. I am testing out this theory. If i gain a few more horse power over standard i will be happy.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Richard

Tim, you are correct i need to recondition the connecting rods as well. i will look at the french stuff since you mentioned it. Keep in mind If i race scta i need to use domestic parts. I was thinking of grinding off some of the casting flaws and roughness. I ground some of the roughness off the crank counter weights. it took a little work and needs more to get more smooth. the logic behind this is, the result would be a quicker throttle response, high revs, and a more balanced engine because the oil and air will slide off the counter weights when the crank spins through the air. I am testing out this theory. If i gain a few more horse power over standard i will be happy.

Somewhere on the interwebs is an essential read: Mike Bishop's Guide to Flathead Porting. It not only talks about porting the block, but I believe he discusses rods and crank. The crank pictured in this guide is a work of art.

Hopefully someone can provide a link to this guide. It is great.

[Richard]

tim i will read the piece on the connecting rods and crank.

[Ronnie]

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Originally Posted by Richard

Gary; a buddy of mine uses metric rings on his four groove pistons with no issues. I will verify if the finish needs to be addressed with the rings i use.
Those bronze guides look like they would work but would the umbrella seals keep the oil from getting to the valve stems and cause an issue?

I agree with you gary a hone plate is the best way to go.

How do you run metric rings with a piston that doesn't have metric grooves??

R

[Tim Ayers]

Here is Mike's porting guide. I'll try to find the one on rods and cranks.

http://www.flatheadv8.org/bishop/porting1.

[Ralph Moore]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Any thoughts about the NOS French rods? At $125, it seems like a great deal for I'm sure reconning them has to be more.

I went with the French rods on my last 8BA build. I got them from Vern Tardel, they were cheaper( even with shipping to Alaska) than getting my original rods reconditioned.

[Richard]

Ronnie, the shoulder dimension is slightly different, this needs to be verified.

[Ronnie]

Originally Posted by Richard

Ronnie, the shoulder dimension is slightly different, this needs to be verified.

The piston grooves must be metric size in width to accommodate metric rings.What pistons is he running that are 4 groove metric grooves?? What is the shoulder dimension you refer to. Rings have a thickness reference,a bore size reference,and a radial wall thickness.

R

[mikebishop]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Somewhere on the interwebs is an essential read: Mike Bishop's Guide to Flathead Porting. It not only talks about porting the block, but I believe he discusses rods and crank. The crank pictured in this guide is a work of art.

Hopefully someone can provide a link to this guide. It is great.

Thanks for the kind words, Tim. I'm not sure if the original article exists with pictures, so I'll include a few here to provide a sense of what the work entails. This first picture is a 4-inch-stroke SCAT crank that was lightened (by 12-plus pounds), given a serious aero carve for reduced windage, and a bit of polish to assist the aero plus remove stress risers from the surface. The red "X" on the front cheek is an indicator for some heavy metal to be added here for balancing.




These next two images demonstrate the amount of material that can be safely removed, especially in the rod-journal area where it has the least effect on overall crank balance; those huge counterweights look like tempting targets for losing a lot of weight right away, but they're essential to the inherent goodness in the Ford flathead V-8 crankshaft. First, without any carving . . .




. . . and with about 2/3 of the carving work done. This is the other side of the journal in the previous picture but it gives a sense of how much material can be removed without jeopardizing the strength of the crankshaft. The center counterweights have just begun to be carved.




This 4-inch Mercury crankshaft illustrates the amount of material that can be removed from the counterweights that straddle the center main bearing.



I'll look around in my photo files for additional images and see if I can find any that will add to the experience of carving flathead crankshafts.

Mike

[Tim Ayers]

Hey Mike:

Thank you for posting those pictures and everything you do for us flathead guys!

Tim

[Richard]

the polished merc crank is better but i have a ford at this time.

[Ol' Ron]

Hi Mike, glad to see you're still taking nourishment. It's been awhile, Haven't done much porting lately, eyesight can't find the right spots anymore. You should ask Ray if he wants to sell the Bville motor, I understand it's still sitting there in the yard. Everything is going well here, Have a great day.
Ol' Ron

[Richard]

the merc crank is pretty smooth, professional grinding job.