I put the seat belts in

[700rpm]

After reading a couple horror stories abut people being thrown out of their Model A's and killed in accidents (none was their fault), I decided it was time to put the belts in my Tudor. I put belts in my Pickup a couple years ago, but the sedan was daunting, both because of access and not knowing what I was going to fasten the belts to.

But I had to take the seats out for reupholstery, and there was the empty car. It took be the better part of two days to figure it out and get the belts and the necessary extra bolts and reinforcing washers and materials, but they're in, and now I can take my grandchildren for a ride in the sedan and belt 'em in.

Next week I get my safety glass. I can't believe I've been driving this car for 49 years with plate glass in the windows. Yikes!

[skip]

Seat Belt anchoring is all about spreading out the forces in a crash. Full width angle bar stock of 1-1/2" x 1-1/2" x 1/4" from port to starboard under some tin with holes drilled through the tin and angle and large diameter thick washers around the shank of the seat belt bolts and good nylock nuts. Note: Stainless steel is no stronger than regular black iron [mild steel] fasteners. If you want you can undercoat or paint the bar stock before installing.

A hardened set of fasteners is nice if they can be found. Really good seat belt webbing fits through a tang that is 'padded' via a vinyl coating in the slot so the slot in the tang does not cut the webb. A requirement of the National Safety ...whatever the heck they call themselves.

So lets see. The ultimate strength of steel is 10,000 lb, times the thickness of steel, divided by four for a safe working load.

1/4" [.25] x 10,000 lb divided by 4 = 625 lb per anchor bolt hole. [It's not the bolt. Just the bar] How about 1-1/2" x 1-1/2" x 3/8" angle?

A 7/16" bolt...figure that one out.

You decide. skip. I put a five point Simpson belt on the driver's side of my '77 step-side Chevy race car tow truck. But that use to get airborne every once in a while.

[700rpm]

"How about 3/8"? "

Skip, that's a lot of engineering and physics. Thanks. I used a 7/16" bolt but a different method for spreading the forces. I'm confident with my solution, but I won't tell anybody what I did because of liability. It's too bad, but that's the world we live in.

[BCCHOPIT]

Any one have any pics? I have some old air plane belts to mount in my car
Thanks Bill

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by 700rpm

"How about 3/8"? "

Skip, that's a lot of engineering and physics. Thanks. I used a 7/16" bolt but a different method for spreading the forces. I'm confident with my solution, but I won't tell anybody what I did because of liability. It's too bad, but that's the world we live in.

I would tell them what you did. You're not telling them what they have to do.

[quickchange]

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Did you use 2 point ( lap ) or 3 point ones? Look forward to some pictures. Thanks.

[MrTube]

Originally Posted by quickchange

Did you use 2 point ( lap ) or 3 point ones? Look forward to some pictures. Thanks.

With the high speeds the 'A' is capable of i'd have to insist on 5 point.

All joking aside, something that really scares me in the 'A' and all older cars is the non-collapsible steering column. perhaps my fear is from a good Alfred Hitchcock presents episode, but i've heard of real instances where it has killed people.

Is this a problem on the 'A'?

[Benson]

Originally Posted by 700rpm

After reading a couple horror stories abut people being thrown out of their Model A's and killed in accidents (none was their fault), I decided it was time to put the belts in my Tudor. I put belts in my Pickup a couple years ago, but the sedan was daunting, both because of access and not knowing what I was going to fasten the belts to.

But I had to take the seats out for reupholstery, and there was the empty car. It took be the better part of two days to figure it out and get the belts and the necessary extra bolts and reinforcing washers and materials, but they're in, and now I can take my grandchildren for a ride in the sedan and belt 'em in.

Next week I get my safety glass. I can't believe I've been driving this car for 49 years with plate glass in the windows. Yikes!

You might want to check your windshield also. I had read the books and had been told in 1962 about safety glass being installed (in windshields ONLY) at the factory. I read that some Deluxe models had safety glass in side windows also.

Shortly after that I installed seat belts in the front of the Sport Coupe. The side windows were PLATE GLASS, as most A's came from factory and I replaced them with "Safety" glass.

Long story short, in 1966 I hit the rear of a '56 Plymouth at 45 MPH. Little damage to the car (except for bumper damage) and the Trooper said the belts kept me from hitting or going through the windshield.

Then about ten years later the windshield glass started to rattle in the frame. After removing it I found that someone had replaced it with single strength PLATE GLASS. Now I was REALLY glad for the seat belts in the '66 accident !!

Something to think about.

[Jon]

I installed belts in mine a few years ago. The next year I took the front belts out, installed them in the rear and put retractables in the front.
Yes, they are bolted to the frame. When you get under there and look, there's a frame bolt right in line with the channel. Seemed like a logical thing to do, Extend the steel I was adding , make a couple gussetts and tie it in to the frame.

I know the arguments against doing this, but I made the decision to do it this way. I'll live with it.

[30Tudor]

Jon - great setup. Do you have a picture of how you set up the retractables in the front. I am going to switch over and will use your reinforcement idea when I do.

[700rpm]

Mr. Tube: About 55,000 people are killed in auto accidents every year. I have never heard of more than two being killed in a Model A in any single year since 1980, and I've heard or read of only six total in that time (unscientific accumulation of info, not a controlled analysis with research). Driving ANYTHING is dangerous, but I'm not going to worry about the steering wheel.

Benson: I have a 1936 Ford Triplex replacement windshield, so I'm OK there. But your advice is good.

Jon: I like your setup better than mine. I used flat steel for force distribution in the front center bolts and went through the body rail for the side. In the back I used the seat riser and reinforcement underneath.

I've got lap belts only.

[MrTube]

[QUOTE=700rpm;43488]Mr. Tube: About 55,000 people are killed in auto accidents every year. I have never heard of more than two being killed in a Model A in any single year since 1980, and I've heard or read of only six total in that time (unscientific accumulation of info, not a controlled analysis with research). Driving ANYTHING is dangerous, but I'm not going to worry about the steering wheel.




700rpm : I realize driving anything is dangerous, Keep in mind I ride an ATV that can run a 12 second 1/4 mile and is considered to be extremely dangerous, sometimes it feels like my helmet is wearing ME for protection . However I believe there were a very high number bad injuries and deaths due to steering columns that got jammed into the driver during a front impact, this is why it concerns me. It doesn't stop me from driving older cars but it is something I dislike.

[skip]

Good looking job on the anchors for the belts. It's all about spreading out the forces.

Every seven and one half minutes someone is killed in a motor car accident in America. So about 75,000 a year?

Anyway the human head can usually endure about 17 mph impacts before cracking, so says the guys who make motor cycle helmets in an episode of "How It's Made" on the Science Channel recently..I would have thought it was a higher speed impact. And at that speed there helmets crack but absorb the impact to save the head.

skip.