48 coupe- setting up distributor

[Bolts]

Gentlemen,
I have spent most of the day reading posts by Bubba and Hoop and FlatheadTed about the fine points of timing, dwell, etc. It's interesting, but as I have no meters to work with, tell me if the following procedure will get a spark sufficient to make the engine run.

As a novice with this dual point distributor, I believe I learned that the driver side points set the timing while the passenger points control the dwell. Fine.

I also learned that the point gap should be set at .016 except that is a variable and usually is set with an instrument. Since I have no instrument, I will set the points at .016 with a feeler gage.
I assume both sets of points get set at .016 although one must infer that from the discussions I read today. OK I assume .016 on both sets of points.

Now to the timing. With the left side follower as close to the center of the cam flat as possible and using a Flashlight bulb connected to the terminal (dist is out of the car) through a battery to the dist case and loosen the screw on the slider and rotate the dist slightly (would that be counterclockwise?) until the light barely starts to go off. Isn't that about it?

Would appreciate knowing a method that will get me going again if I break down in Resume Speed Idaho on a Sunday night (from Bruce Lancaster- Thanks Bruce).

Can we keep it simple? Thanks.

[66miles]

I'm wondering some of these same things myself bolts. There's a number of guys out there (including FlatheadTed I think) who have gotten around to putting timing marks on the front pulley/timing cover of their rides. Then you can check your timing with the engine running using a timing light. This setup would also show you what is happening with the advance as you increase revs.

[Bolts]

Thanks 66, I just read that. So I assume after you have the pulley marked you stop the engine to adjust the timing, then start it up again (or try to start it up again) to see where the spark is happening with the timing light.
My problem is that I have never had this engine running and really don't know anything about setting one up to run initially.
I probably would use Bruce Lancaster's method spoken of by Ol Ron to find top dead center, then go from there, but could someone verify my procedure or tell me the right way to do it with only feeler gages.
Thanks.

[66miles]

I've set my points (crab distibutor) to 16thou on both and it seems to run pretty good now. When I checked the points with a feeler guage before I started one was 12 and one was 8. It was a little rough with those settings. Go for the feeler guages mate! Nothing to loose.

[Bolts]

66 have you messed with the timing yet? I havn't taken the dist out yet, but from pictures and youtube, it appears there is a little screw on the side to use to rotate the plate which will make the points close a little sooner. Hope I'm right, but I'm hoping Flathead Ted or other knowledgeable souls will come through with the answers. Don't think you can adjust the timing when the engine is running unless you don't mind getting eaten by the machinery.

[66miles]

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You're right! If you try to adjust that thing with the engine running you will end up with no hands left on account of all turning bits. Do what I've done and take the dizzie out! It took me 5mins. Only 2 bolts and it's out. Then pull it apart and CLEAN IT! My dizzie was in a horrible state. I'm gonna put it back in tomorrow and will let you know how it goes!

[Bolts]

Good 66! Please do forward your experiences with putting it back in and how it's performing. I know we're talking generalities here, so I don't want to cause those in the know to think I believe using empirical methods are the way to get the best performance. All I need right now is enough to get the thing popping. We'll do the fine tuning, but first I want to understand what it takes to get in the ball park, meaning drivable even if a little rough or lacking power. Once I get that far, I think I can improve things a little bit or at least be able to assess what might need changing out.

[66miles]

That's the way Bolts! Rip it apart. Set it to 16thou with the feeler guages on both points. Set the timing to half-way, then go from there. I think you'll find even the experts like Bubbas ignition will recommend that as a good enough way to start! I'll port a reply tomorrow when I get the newly cleaned dizzie back in.

[Terry,OH]

If you want to make it simple: set the points with a feeler gauge and set timing at mid scale, set the vacuum brake all the way out and then back in 1-1/2 turns and you should be close enough to run.

[ken ct]

Your rite there Terry. ken ct.

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

If you like to install a timing on the driving side you can use no. 6 plug or no. 1 plug, the mark will be in the same place. Walt

[Bolts]

Originally Posted by Terry,OH

If you want to make it simple: set the points with a feeler gauge and set timing at mid scale, set the vacuum brake all the way out and then back in 1-1/2 turns and you should be close enough to run.

That's what were looking for here! Thank you Terry.

[Bolts]

Originally Posted by Walt Dupont--Me.

If you like to install a timing on the driving side you can use no. 6 plug or no. 1 plug, the mark will be in the same place. Walt

Really? #1 and #6 are TDC at the same time?

Off the subject Walt, I wanted to ask you about studs in a rebuild. From pictures it looks to me like most of the studs are tapped through into the water jacket. My question is after you hot tank a block for rebuild, do you have to install inserts or tap to a larger thread to guarantee a tight fit? I imagine you use some type sealer to prevent future corrosion and leaks.

[Bruce Lancaster]

Get quality points. Echlins seem good, there are some that really cannot work right because (most likely) the pivot holes are not in right place. With good points and undamaged plate and cam, proper gap and proper dwell will closely coincide.
Set to high side of spec, .016, to allow for any slight rubbing block wear at breakin. With bad imports, the slight wear will go on until car stops...
Centerline of timing adjuster is always close to right. Ruler method (which gets less fumbly if you make up a one piece tool) works well, gets it right about where a KRW fixture will.
After it is timed to spec, of course experimentation is worthwhile...engines are very individual.
Turn brake adjust all the way out, by hand so you don't crank the bolt right out of the spring pusher, then back in mebbe 2 turns. Modern gas is higher than 1948 octane, rarely needs the brake. Any adjustment needed is by ear and experiment. A slight tension is required to the plate on advance doesn't float radially and add in timing fluctuations.
Many a Ford has put on lots of miles with good performance set up this way...
Inside...separate shaft and cam, clean and lightly grease where they meet. This area is frequently stuck from ancient grease! Clean advance carefully, lightly grease where rollers ride in slots, drop of oil into centers of rollers.
I've posted on the HAMB by hand degree wheel tester for dwell, built out of parts available at Home depot...won't try that again until I learn how to make pictures. It is essentially the same idea as the rare Echlin/Bear dwell wheel shown in the 1932-6 repair book.
On my '48, I R&R about like this...distributor goes on and off with little trouble or time for easy work:
I pop off distributor cap, leave it dangling on the wires. Slide in a finger or two, pop off rotor, remove the 2 bolts and slide it out past the belts. Once you have done this, you can repeat VERY quickly and it would be about as easy in the dark even once you know your bolts. Small wire comes off too, of course. Install in reverse...getting rotor on is slightly harder than off, but then you use the rotor to turn the innards until the drive tang goes into place. It requires determined stupidity to get that wrong, but I've heard it can be done! Distributor with 1942 cap should be slightly easier, since you can swing cap farther out of way.
I've posted several times on interference method for finding real close to exact TDC on a complete engine...one of the front cover bolts can be replaced with a short stud made into a pointer. I've also posted on making a simple cardboard template for marking degrees into edge of pulley with good accuracy...5 degree increments are easy to make and allow easy judgement of smaller increments.
Timing should best be set to spec then experimented with to see what makes your car happy.
Dynamic setup on a machine is best, of course, but you probably will never have one...that's almost a hobby in itself! Also, your corner garage no longer has such a machine, and probably doesn't have any employees left that have ever touched even single point distributors. Having the thing sorted on a machine may be required if you are flummoxed by el cheapo points or actual mechanical troubles in there...
but remember that almost no individuals or even small local garages had any equipment even at the level of a fixture in the '32-48 period, and the cars ran fine in the hands of farmers, teenagers, and WWII soldiers in the desert...the simple ways are not optimum, but if your parts are good they can get you plenty close. These things kept going, and survived their competitors (with their much simpler distributors) probably 10 to 1.

[Willit Stop]

Bolts: This might help you.It's for a helmet so the numbers might be a little different.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...light=dwell+cd

[Bolts]

Excellent. Thanks to all. I think I can manage this. My idea about the flashlite bulb was to hook a light in series with the points so that it would go off when you rotated the plate a small amount bringing the static opening of the points to something close to nominal and set the timing screw down right there. Don't know if this will work with both points opening as they do.

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

Originally Posted by Terry,OH

If you want to make it simple: set the points with a feeler gauge and set timing at mid scale, set the vacuum brake all the way out and then back in 1-1/2 turns and you should be close enough to run.

Thats all you need for any of these cars. Good enough is all you are after, sometimes there are times just to forget the fine tune and make it run.

[Bruce Lancaster]

On point opening...once you understand the Mallory system of overlapping point cycles, of course!...a light bulb does the job. Another traditionalist technique was a piece of cigarette paper between the contacts...when it falls out, voila!
Seriously, feeler gauge and ruler will do the job, unless you run into points made offshore to the lowest possible price. Machine is superior for setup, and REALLY superior in winkling out a problem not readily discernible...like out-of-place pivot, wonky advance, etc.
Assuming you have good parts, you can do some analytical work on the car, especially with vac backed off, running it up against your new degree marks with timing light and tune-up tach and maybe that 1972 Sears Penske dwell meter...
Used to be that you could buy points and condenser at respectable-level parts places and just put them in. Now you have to deal with bottom-feeder parts from some of the resto places, and respectable parts stores carry two lines of everything...the lower line especially for people who like to walk home from their test drives.

[66miles]

Bolts. I finished dismantling my crab. It was in a very bad state inside. Was full a old grease, gum, varnish, road grit etc etc. The vacuum piston was frozen in the bore and had no friction material left. The remains of that stuff were scattered throughout the dizzie. The centrifugal weights were sticking badly, and even with the timing adjustment screw completely removed, I could not get the front plate with the points on it to move at all. It's all cleaned out now, lubricated with a light CRC oil, and has a piece of leather I cut up installed on the end of the vacuum piston. Everything moves around nicely in there again. Might get it installed today if I get the time. Will let you know how it goes!

[Bruce Lancaster]

On bad ones, the stuck piston is a real wart when you try to pull the innards...best way to yank it is to run a tap (I think I use 1/4 pipe tap?? Ancient tap too rusty to tell!) into the upper cavity in piston...
A surprising number of fleamarket ones are in good mechanical shape, probably partly because of Ford's exchange rebuild program. Bushings are available, if point plate or advance governor are fubar (not just dirty) another trip to the fleamarket may be best approach.
Ford actually stocked all small parts for advance right down to the rivets and provided tools for restaking everything, but only at the branch or rebuilder level! Dealers supplied only assembled governors, and were generally expected to just use the exchange system.
In most, only real problem is the cam being glued to the shaft by 50 year old grease, easy to cure.
Actual bad cam or bent plate are examples of the sort of thing easily spotted by a distributor machine and good operator, after they drive the do-it-yourselfer stark mad...