Good photo of Skip's impeller?

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

Visual comparison won't tell the whole story. An actual test comparison would be necessary. I would guess the other sources did a 'Chinamans' copy of Skips impeller. I've had four sets of original Ford pumps (w/part number on castings) rebuilt by Skip. He does good work and guarantees what he does. I also like the idea of keeping an American employed.

+1 on this. Keep the hobby pure. No no no repos....

God Bless America!

[Old Henry]

Here's why I wanted to see the detail of Skip's impeller.
This is the impeller of the improved water pumps I got from C&G.


As you can see, they have a full width paddle that is angled like a turbine to more efficiently push the water out of the middle. The only picture of Skip's impeller that I've ever seen that is on his website makes the fins look like just bumps on the metal rather than any kind of aggressive paddles to move the water.



P.S. There have been several comments about overheating while idling. That has never been my problem. I've been in dozens of parades in the middle of the hot summer idling along for hours without any heat problems. My problems have been climbing mountains in hot weather like I did last fall over 12,000 feet over the top of Rocky Mountain National Park. I eventually had to remove my thermostats to keep from boiling over. That's the only reason I've considered doing something different.

[G.M.]

Henry that's exactly what the brand X pumps have, paddle wheels that slip and churn water mixed with a lot of air. Water with a lot of air don't cool very good. The paddle wheel shown pumps 65 to 75 gallons in 5 minutes. Skips turbine has an angle on the impellers that seats into an angle seat machined into the pump body and there is a critical clearance set between the seat and the impeller. Your type of impeller has a big gap between the impeller and body. Also notice the length of the turbine blades. Skips turbine pumps produce 110 gallons in 5 minutes with VERY LITTLE air in the system. The 32 to 36 impellers have a larger diameter, larger and longer fins with an aerodynamic shape for a smoother flow. The body is bored for the larger impeller and a modern seal and hard SS shafts centerless ground to .500 OD with the bushings reamed for the exact required clearance for the film of oil the shaft runs on. The shaft never touches the bushing just oil. The heavy oil comes from a low melt temperature grease. The stock 32 to 36 pumps deliver 55 gallons in 5 minutes, skips do 92 gallons. Every pump is tested on a water pump test machine and every pump shipped produces the gallons stated above. The test results are recorded in a test log book. G.M.

[Old Henry]

So, where's the picture to show what you're talking about? The only one I've ever seen doesn't seem to match your description.

[BillM]

Like the saying goes, "A picture is worth a thousand words" I'd like to see it too.

[Kahuna]

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I would think it to be proprietary

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by G.M.

Henry I believe you requested pictures a long while ago and I brought a box full of impellers home to take pictures and I'm looking at the box from where I'm sitting. Will try to take pictures this week. G.M.

I have my engine "temporarily" out of my car getting it rebuilt and am trying to decide whether it's worth $200.00 to have my water pumps replaced while it's out. Now would be a good time but I don't have much time to meet my deadlines for the trip to Canada in a month. So, if anyone's got a picture of a Skip's impeller installed in a pump base so I can see how it works it will really help me decide.

As far as I can tell my water pumps are working just fine and I'm not inclined to spend $200 to replace them just because of a pile of testimonials. I want to actually see what is supposed to make them better with my own eyes. Call me "Doubting Thomas" but it is ingrained in me from 34 years of practicing law - all facts must be proven by facts, not just opinions.

This is all starting to look like some kind of religious zeal - "Just believe us because we say so. Don't ask us to actually prove it by showing you."

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by Kahuna

I would think it to be proprietary

Are you saying that every pump is sold on condition that it may not be photographed nor shown to anyone else and comes with an explicit warning of such because it's secret??? That's what "proprietary" means. Patents are the protection of ideas so they can be published, manufactured, and sold without fear of the design being stolen. If Skip has no patent on his impeller he has no protection. If he does it doesn't matter who sees it or photographs it. He can't very well keep them secret when he's sold so many.

[Mike B]

Originally Posted by Old Henry

I want to actually see what is supposed to make them better with my own eyes. Call me "Doubting Thomas" but it is ingrained in me from 34 years of practicing law - all facts must be proven by facts, not just opinions.

"

GM gave you flow facts, not opinions.

As a law practitioner, this qualifies you to view a 2 D image and come up with conclusive results?

Facts cannot be seen in a picture in regards to engineering, facts are what GM has stated, those are conclusive results.

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by Old Henry

P.S. There have been several comments about overheating while idling. That has never been my problem. I've been in dozens of parades in the middle of the hot summer idling along for hours without any heat problems. My problems have been climbing mountains in hot weather like I did last fall over 12,000 feet over the top of Rocky Mountain National Park. I eventually had to remove my thermostats to keep from boiling over. That's the only reason I've considered doing something different.

Seem to recall that someone on this forum mentioned that one of the requirements for using Skip's pumps is that thermostats not be used.
So if removing your thermostats solved your problem, why would you need Skip's pumps?

[Charlie ny]

Well then just use the C & G pumps or Drakes or Speedy Bills.
Charlie ny

[Cecil/WV]

When you are buying a rebuilt engine that has been dyno tested, do you accept the printed results? or do you tear the engine down to see what difference is inside??

[Vic Piano]

Most of the responses on this thread, (including mine), have been positive with respect to water pumps rebuilt by Skip. I don't know why a photograph of the impeller has not been shown however; I would take into consideration the testimony, (i.e. accolades) attributed to Skip’s pumps, in a decision to replace your existing pumps. Like Charley NY says, if you are not convinced that Skips pumps are the way to go, get the pumps from another source.

[russcc]

Anyone done a scientific study, side by side, to see if there is an actual difference in flow rate and operating temperature between and spiral impeller and stock Ford impeller water pumps. Nothing against Skip's or progress, but it would nice to see the data. No data, no decision.

[Vic Piano]

I would have to say that "real world" experience is equal to, if not better than, lab test data, with respect to the water pumps. I doubt that every situation (relevant to the Flathead V8 driving experience) could be authentically replicated in a lab environment. I still say popular opinion in actual usage of the pumps should be sufficient evidence of their functionality and dependability.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Charlie ny

Well then just use the C & G pumps or Drakes or Speedy Bills.
Charlie ny

I agree. If you are having such a hard time paying for Skip's pumps, get the off shore ones. Save yourself approx. $60 and hope for the best.

As you know, pulling an engine is a pain in the rump. If it where mine, I'd do it right, but you are the one that needs to make that choice.

I would think enough folks have given you personal experience and facts about the product. As the buyer, I think you have enough information to make an informed decision.

Good luck with the rebuild and I hope it all goes well.

Keep 'em runnin'!

[bmwillia]

Skip and G.M. provide the data. They have done the testing and show their results. Many have already posted that they have seen improved results with Skips pumps. Add me to the list.

The question is whether you trust Skip's data or not.

If the data provided by G.M. and the many testimonials on this board, not religious following, but testimonials that back up G.M.'s claims then a picture is not going to make a difference.

Lord knows people here will let you know if there is a problem with something.

If your pumps work then don't fix them. If they don't work then, based on the evidence given, you will not find a better option than Skip's.

[Tim Ayers]

As far as I can tell my water pumps are working just fine and I'm not inclined to spend $200 to replace them just because of a pile of testimonials. I want to actually see what is supposed to make them better with my own eyes. Call me "Doubting Thomas" but it is ingrained in me from 34 years of practicing law - all facts must be proven by facts, not just opinions.

This is all starting to look like some kind of religious zeal - "Just believe us because we say so. Don't ask us to actually prove it by showing you."[/QUOTE]


So as a practicing lawyer for 34 years, you've never had an expert twist or misrepresent the facts in a case or had a jury not believe a whole gang of witnesses who are saying the same thing about what they saw?

Religious zeal is a pretty strong comment. I think it's time to put this to rest. Buy the pumps or don't buy the pumps.

Have you called Skip to talk to him in order to get it from the man himself vs. posting on an internet forum? That may be a good idea.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Old Henry, this thought came to my mind as I read your posts here....going back to your posts regarding problems with the banjo rear end in your car...I recall you had and 'saw with your own eyes' excessive wear damage on the pinion, driveshaft and coupling splines and yet your initial judgement call, at one point, was to just put it all back together like that and drive the car until it failed completely rather than spend money to fix it properly.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...hlight=rearend

With that type of logic in mind, what makes you feel qualified as a lawyer to just look at pictures of water pump impeller designs and determine which ones work best and why?

[Charlie ny]

A preponderance of the evidence ie unsolicited testimonials works for me.....shall
we move on to the best shells to use when hunting ducks....hmmm?
Charlie ny