The Ford Barn

Cecil/WV · 08-13-2010, 11:44 AM

It's very unlikely that it was on 180 off without cracking the dist housing.

Bruce Lancaster · 08-13-2010, 11:55 AM

Just get a ruler and time it. I posted the field-expedient method Ford had for those without machine or fixture for the 3-bolt distributors a few days back.

Hoop · 08-13-2010, 02:20 PM

This is where debate starts on distributor timing. For RBaker's current situation, can we agree that what he wants to do is get the engine running? HIGH PERFORMANCE tuning can wait.

OK?

RBaker, check the following:

1. Are your spark plug wires running to the correct plugs?

2. Did you set the points a .015? (You said .15, but think of course you really meant .015.)

3. Check the initial advance index on the right side, as it's installed, of the distributor and center the index in the middle of the scale.

4. If you checked the alignment of the distributor when you installed it, it should have slipped into place. If you had the tab 180 out, most likely you'd have broken off one of the mounting ears on the distributor. I saw a case recently ... the guy did not break off the ears but jammed the tab into the slot and broke the tab. You can look at the distributor shaft and the slot and tell which way the offsets are.

Those distributor settings are close enough to get the engine running. In fact, maybe for a long time. You can come back later and use Bruce's method or anything else available to fine tune things.

RBaker, flatheads can be easily flooded. Careful not to over-prime the carb ... won't start.

OLD...BILL · 08-13-2010, 03:15 PM

MR;BAKER; I don't think the dist is 180 out. I would bet the plug wires are plugged in wrong, we've all done it at times, you know late night and a 6pax or two. you pull the dist. and you can eye ball the drive grove and the slot, you can see it wrong or right. If I remember the plug-in terminal caps are numbered to the cylinder...review that great picture and information Tinker sent you.
When you get the trans, take pictures,both sides of top. then pull the top. 6 bolts, and more pictures inside, and we will tell you about the gears.
Hey Mike ..AZ. I thought we were buds, I'm trying to work a deal here, Ha-Ha and you start talking big about the trans and the shift lever.... whats up ? ...
NOTE; I DON'T NEED ANY PARTS ..... OLD....BILL ,,, but I do like pictures

RBaker · 08-13-2010, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoop

This is where debate starts on distributor timing. For RBaker's current situation, can we agree that what he wants to do is get the engine running? HIGH PERFORMANCE tuning can wait.

OK?

RBaker, check the following:

1. Are your spark plug wires running to the correct plugs?

2. Did you set the points a .015? (You said .15, but think of course you really meant .015.)

3. Check the initial advance index on the right side, as it's installed, of the distributor and center the index in the middle of the scale.

4. If you checked the alignment of the distributor when you installed it, it should have slipped into place. If you had the tab 180 out, most likely you'd have broken off one of the mounting ears on the distributor. I saw a case recently ... the guy did not break off the ears but jammed the tab into the slot and broke the tab. You can look at the distributor shaft and the slot and tell which way the offsets are.

Those distributor settings are close enough to get the engine running. In fact, maybe for a long time. You can come back later and use Bruce's method or anything else available to fine tune things.

RBaker, flatheads can be easily flooded. Careful not to over-prime the carb ... won't start.

Hoop,

First thing in the morning I will double check my plug wires for correct location.....I did get it to run for several seconds yesterday.

I highly doubt I put the distributor in wrong after reading what you guys had to say....it seems to be working as it should.

Yesterday several times the engine started skipping quickly like it wanted to start then the big rumble and it ran for several seconds....sounded good!

Not once did it backfire into the carb or anything.....I did mention it is having carb trouble and I did not know flatheads were easy to flood....YES i did squirt a lot of fuel into the carb with a squirt bottle...also used a little starting fluid. I did wonder if I was flooding it and now I know I probably did.

Yes I have both sets of points set as close to .015 as possible.....should I try a different gap these are not new points but they look pretty darn good.

Plugs are set on .025.

I have two vacuum lines on my intake....one goes to the distributor then another one back near the fuel pump goes to NOTHING.....

When I turn the engine over the carb had very good suction.

I used this diagram to install my plug wires.

RBaker · 08-13-2010, 03:23 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD...BILL

MR;BAKER; I don't think the dist is 180 out. I would bet the plug wires are plugged in wrong, we've all done it at times, you know late night and a 6pax or two. you pull the dist. and you can eye ball the drive grove and the slot, you can see it wrong or right. If I remember the plug-in terminal caps are numbered to the cylinder...review that great picture and information Tinker sent you.
When you get the trans, take pictures,both sides of top. then pull the top. 6 bolts, and more pictures inside, and we will tell you about the gears.
Hey Mike ..AZ. I thought we were buds, I'm trying to work a deal here, Ha-Ha and you start talking big about the trans and the shift lever.... whats up ? ...
NOTE; I DON'T NEED ANY PARTS ..... OLD....BILL ,,, but I do like pictures

Dang it now you got me wanting to go out in the 100 degree heat right now to check them wires!! haha

I for sure will double check them....a friend of mine was out there with me yesterday and he was talking non stop when I was installing the wires so I might have put them on wrong.

Bruce Lancaster · 08-13-2010, 03:25 PM

The "nothing" line is for the vacuum wiper, and can just be plugged for now. That's another deep morass...

RBaker · 08-13-2010, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

The "nothing" line is for the vacuum wiper, and can just be plugged for now. That's another deep morass...

Thanks, will plug that one up.

Tinker · 08-13-2010, 03:36 PM

I made a gravity tank for my truck in the beginning. Took a plastic tank, drilled a hole (smaller then the fitting) and screwed a fitting on it. The fitting had a rubber fuel line type connection on the end. Hung it in the cab on the passenger side. You can place it anywhere really as long as it's higher then the carb and away from the engine. Ran a hose to the carb.

Much easier then using a squirt bottle continuously.

RBaker · 08-14-2010, 09:41 PM

I worked on the old truck most of the day....had it where it was "trying to start" several times but just never would get to that point.

I felt the plugs were not getting a proper amount of fuel....no matter how much fuel I had go through the carb the plugs would pull out dry.

Spark to plugs is still excellent, plugs wires are all connected correctly....I decided I needed to take a closer look inside this engine so I removed the intake & heads this afternoon.

Heads looks good, block looks good and saw no cracks in the block near the valves or anywhere else.....pistons reveal .040 bore, Pistons fit tight in cylinders, cylinder walls are excellent with no ridge, valve springs and valves are working properly and look to be in pretty good shape. Carbon buildup was expected and noticeable in ports and on top of pistons. The intake must be some after market aluminum intake???

The only thing I did not like was the oil build up in the valve spring area and under the intake....it has the consistency of "cake frosting" just a light coating in those two areas.

My plans are to clean those areas with diesel fuel and a heavy bristle brush to remove the caked on oil residue.

Take into account this truck has been sitting in a barn since about 1975 so the caked on stuff should have been expected.....I probably should have taken it down like this first thing.

Should have it back together by the middle of next week.

RBaker · 08-14-2010, 09:50 PM

I'm thinking this oily caked on residue at the base of the valves was not allowing fuel to flow properly.....is this possible?

Tinker · 08-14-2010, 09:56 PM

Clean it all out being the head and intake are off. Are you looking to do a rebuild??

What are your plans???

RBaker · 08-14-2010, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinker

Clean it all out being the head and intake are off. Are you looking to do a rebuild??

What are your plans???

Hi Tinker,

No rebuild plans yet.....to me the engine looks pretty good inside and out except for the residue in the valve area and underside of intake.

I'm just going to clean it up really well....was told it ran excellent when parked but it was parked so long ago the pictures show the results...it's still not bad for sitting that long, luckily it was not outside in the weather.

I will repaint the heads and other things on the engine before I put it back together.

Tinker · 08-14-2010, 10:35 PM

Valve valley looks pretty junked up, what's the pan look like? You mentioned you had a compression check of 90 across the board (very nice).

Sounds like you were close to running the engine, just some carb trouble??

Mike in AZ · 08-14-2010, 10:51 PM

you can't seat the distributor onto the block correctly if it's 180 off....if it snugs down to the block, it's correct...otherwise you will break a the casting where the bolts go thru.....if you want to see about 180 off, check it out.....the mounting holes won't line up, either....i think what you're seeing under the intake is normal for old flatheads....old oil, etc. didn't do a good job of cleaning, so deposits are normal....sometimes could be 1/2" or more gunk on bottom of pan..sounds like you're getting close to getting it running....have fun and good luck...Mike

Russ/40 · 08-15-2010, 12:09 AM

Well, now you've done it. Resist the urge to tear it down any further. You can clean the valley and the pan, but I would stop after that and put it back together. You were VERY close to getting it running. It looks good. Great find. Keep at getting it running. You CAN do it!

Rowdy · 08-15-2010, 12:40 AM

38, looks good here also, just one more project among way too many at times. My Model A Delivery is on the hot burner right now. Likely take me atleast 2 more years on it. Rod

RBaker · 08-15-2010, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike in AZ

you can't seat the distributor onto the block correctly if it's 180 off....if it snugs down to the block, it's correct...otherwise you will break a the casting where the bolts go thru.....if you want to see about 180 off, check it out.....the mounting holes won't line up, either....i think what you're seeing under the intake is normal for old flatheads....old oil, etc. didn't do a good job of cleaning, so deposits are normal....sometimes could be 1/2" or more gunk on bottom of pan..sounds like you're getting close to getting it running....have fun and good luck...Mike

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ/40

Well, now you've done it. Resist the urge to tear it down any further. You can clean the valley and the pan, but I would stop after that and put it back together. You were VERY close to getting it running. It looks good. Great find. Keep at getting it running. You CAN do it!

Nothing better than a little support from you guys! Thanks! The oil pan was filled with at least 3 gallons of diesel but the upper section of the engine never saw any of that.

After seeing the condition of the engine I see no need to tear it down any further but removing the gunk in the upper section will be my next project.

Plan to use a wire brush on my small grinder on the intake.

Yes Mike I finally figured out it was no way I could put the distributor on wrong.....I'm learning slowly. haha

RBaker · 08-15-2010, 06:45 AM

Would this be considered a "model 77" engine? No numbers are visible anywhere on the heads or the block other than the number "6" on each head.

OLD...BILL · 08-15-2010, 04:54 PM

OK Mr. Baker, I don.t see a thing that would keep the engine from running. and running good, I am sure you will it get clean inside and up-inside too. I would use a pressure washer, everywhere, and now you need to get some lube on the bone dry cam and lifters, before you start cranking, some ASSEMBLY LUBE would be best on the cam lobes and the lifter bottoms, it will not be easy with all the crank and rods in the way, but it is needed, some other good lubes, are Valvoline " Synpower" spry can or squirt some Marvel mystery oil up in the area, That area is normally supplied by splash,,,, no WG40 at this point.
Now with all that fresh paint, as you are ready to start. put a good squirt of MMO in each cylinder, and crank the engine over( cover the plug holes ) as it will splash, all over your new paint. now just a dab of fresh gas in each cylinder
now with plugs in and ready to start, run a hot wire from, the battery neg to the coil, and it will start, as it dose, pull the hot wire off the coil . Its a 4 volt coil ... and now its running .... good job. ... OLD...BILL

08-13-2010, 11:44 AM	#61
Cecil/WV Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gerrardstown, WV Posts: 2,266	Re: 1938 Ford truck distributor It's very unlikely that it was on 180 off without cracking the dist housing.

08-13-2010, 11:55 AM	#62
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: 1938 Ford truck distributor Just get a ruler and time it. I posted the field-expedient method Ford had for those without machine or fixture for the 3-bolt distributors a few days back.

08-13-2010, 02:20 PM	#63
Hoop Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Jacksonville FL Posts: 1,137	Re: 1938 Ford truck distributor This is where debate starts on distributor timing. For RBaker's current situation, can we agree that what he wants to do is get the engine running? HIGH PERFORMANCE tuning can wait. OK? RBaker, check the following: 1. Are your spark plug wires running to the correct plugs? 2. Did you set the points a .015? (You said .15, but think of course you really meant .015.) 3. Check the initial advance index on the right side, as it's installed, of the distributor and center the index in the middle of the scale. 4. If you checked the alignment of the distributor when you installed it, it should have slipped into place. If you had the tab 180 out, most likely you'd have broken off one of the mounting ears on the distributor. I saw a case recently ... the guy did not break off the ears but jammed the tab into the slot and broke the tab. You can look at the distributor shaft and the slot and tell which way the offsets are. Those distributor settings are close enough to get the engine running. In fact, maybe for a long time. You can come back later and use Bruce's method or anything else available to fine tune things. RBaker, flatheads can be easily flooded. Careful not to over-prime the carb ... won't start. __________________ "Remember that when it comes to intelligence, half of all of us are below average."

08-13-2010, 03:15 PM	#64
OLD...BILL Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northern California,coast Posts: 552	Re: 1938 Ford truck distributor MR;BAKER; I don't think the dist is 180 out. I would bet the plug wires are plugged in wrong, we've all done it at times, you know late night and a 6pax or two. you pull the dist. and you can eye ball the drive grove and the slot, you can see it wrong or right. If I remember the plug-in terminal caps are numbered to the cylinder...review that great picture and information Tinker sent you. When you get the trans, take pictures,both sides of top. then pull the top. 6 bolts, and more pictures inside, and we will tell you about the gears. Hey Mike ..AZ. I thought we were buds, I'm trying to work a deal here, Ha-Ha and you start talking big about the trans and the shift lever.... whats up ? ... NOTE; I DON'T NEED ANY PARTS ..... OLD....BILL ,,, but I do like pictures

08-13-2010, 03:25 PM	#67
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: 1938 Ford truck distributor The "nothing" line is for the vacuum wiper, and can just be plugged for now. That's another deep morass...

08-13-2010, 03:36 PM	#69
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: 1938 Ford truck distributor I made a gravity tank for my truck in the beginning. Took a plastic tank, drilled a hole (smaller then the fitting) and screwed a fitting on it. The fitting had a rubber fuel line type connection on the end. Hung it in the cab on the passenger side. You can place it anywhere really as long as it's higher then the carb and away from the engine. Ran a hose to the carb. Much easier then using a squirt bottle continuously.

08-14-2010, 09:50 PM	#71
RBaker Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 107	Re: 1938 Ford truck distributor I'm thinking this oily caked on residue at the base of the valves was not allowing fuel to flow properly.....is this possible?

08-14-2010, 09:56 PM	#72
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: 1938 Ford truck distributor Clean it all out being the head and intake are off. Are you looking to do a rebuild?? What are your plans???

08-14-2010, 10:35 PM	#74
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: 1938 Ford truck distributor Valve valley looks pretty junked up, what's the pan look like? You mentioned you had a compression check of 90 across the board (very nice). Sounds like you were close to running the engine, just some carb trouble??

08-14-2010, 10:51 PM	#75
Mike in AZ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Waddell, AZ Posts: 2,540	Re: 1938 Ford truck distributor you can't seat the distributor onto the block correctly if it's 180 off....if it snugs down to the block, it's correct...otherwise you will break a the casting where the bolts go thru.....if you want to see about 180 off, check it out.....the mounting holes won't line up, either....i think what you're seeing under the intake is normal for old flatheads....old oil, etc. didn't do a good job of cleaning, so deposits are normal....sometimes could be 1/2" or more gunk on bottom of pan..sounds like you're getting close to getting it running....have fun and good luck...Mike

08-15-2010, 12:09 AM	#76
Russ/40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Santee, California Posts: 3,505	Re: 1938 Ford truck distributor Well, now you've done it. Resist the urge to tear it down any further. You can clean the valley and the pan, but I would stop after that and put it back together. You were VERY close to getting it running. It looks good. Great find. Keep at getting it running. You CAN do it!

08-15-2010, 12:40 AM	#77
Rowdy BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80 Posts: 4,893	Re: 1938 Ford truck distributor 38, looks good here also, just one more project among way too many at times. My Model A Delivery is on the hot burner right now. Likely take me atleast 2 more years on it. Rod __________________ Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!

08-15-2010, 06:45 AM	#79
RBaker Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 107	Re: 1938 Ford truck distributor Would this be considered a "model 77" engine? No numbers are visible anywhere on the heads or the block other than the number "6" on each head.

08-15-2010, 04:54 PM	#80
OLD...BILL Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northern California,coast Posts: 552	Re: 1938 Ford truck distributor OK Mr. Baker, I don.t see a thing that would keep the engine from running. and running good, I am sure you will it get clean inside and up-inside too. I would use a pressure washer, everywhere, and now you need to get some lube on the bone dry cam and lifters, before you start cranking, some ASSEMBLY LUBE would be best on the cam lobes and the lifter bottoms, it will not be easy with all the crank and rods in the way, but it is needed, some other good lubes, are Valvoline " Synpower" spry can or squirt some Marvel mystery oil up in the area, That area is normally supplied by splash,,,, no WG40 at this point. Now with all that fresh paint, as you are ready to start. put a good squirt of MMO in each cylinder, and crank the engine over( cover the plug holes ) as it will splash, all over your new paint. now just a dab of fresh gas in each cylinder now with plugs in and ready to start, run a hot wire from, the battery neg to the coil, and it will start, as it dose, pull the hot wire off the coil . Its a 4 volt coil ... and now its running .... good job. ... OLD...BILL