The Ford Barn

Mike51Merc · 07-07-2015, 07:22 AM

I wouldn't be so quick to blame the switch. If you're only getting 5V out of ignition switch---- how much do you have GOING IN to ignition switch? What else is connected to the ignition switch (answer-- everything but the lights and the horn)? You could have a parasitic draw from just about anywhere in the system.

I'd spot check the entire system for voltage drops, moving from the battery forward.

whb52ford · 07-07-2015, 02:51 PM

I ran a #10 wire from starter relay to OD relay. Took it out for a ride. It worked as it should when I first drive it. As time went on, it would not shift into od, if I tried it a second or third time, it would go into OD. Before when I drove it a bit, it just would not go into OD. Now it will go into OD on a couple trys. Still not right.

G.M. · 07-07-2015, 03:23 PM

Check your battery voltage when the problem happens. If I recall you said the amp meter showed a discharge. If the generator isn't charging your going to have the problems you describe. G.M.

whb52ford · 07-08-2015, 07:33 PM

I checked power to relay car not running 6.23, out of relay 6.20. I put in a #10 wire from relay to solenoid. Have not had a chance to try it yet. Will let you know. About the amp meter. Yesterday the amp meter would flicker as the solenoid went into overdrive. A one second discharge and then back to where it should be.

whb52ford · 07-14-2015, 06:54 PM

I have had the car out for a few short trips and it shifted every time. Usually acts up on a long trip, so I'll have to wait and see, but I think putting in the heavier wire may have fixed it. Thanks to all for their help.

Mike51Merc · 07-15-2015, 08:17 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Quote:

Originally Posted by whb52ford

I checked power to relay car not running 6.23, out of relay 6.20. I put in a #10 wire from relay to solenoid. Have not had a chance to try it yet. Will let you know. About the amp meter. Yesterday the amp meter would flicker as the solenoid went into overdrive. A one second discharge and then back to where it should be.

This is normal behavior. The solenoid has a momentary high current draw, then it relaxes.

Blu Dice · 07-15-2015, 10:31 AM

Use of the heavy wires is a must in the entire overdrive system for it to function correctly. AND good grounds at motor to frame/body/trany. Also a weak battery will cause issues as well as poor output of the generator.

Viroid · 08-09-2015, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whb52ford

I have had the car out for a few short trips and it shifted every time. Usually acts up on a long trip, so I'll have to wait and see, but I think putting in the heavier wire may have fixed it. Thanks to all for their help.

Have read all the posts since your first entry. I also have a 52 with the same symptoms as yours, have tried several things from these posts and still never know if it is going to switch or not. Very frustrating to say the least!!
Have you conquered the problem, if so, what did the trick?
Bill

whb52ford · 01-01-2016, 10:00 PM

Believe it or not I think I finally got it fixed. I replaced the relay with a new modern one. I got a 6v 30 amp Relay off eBay. I have 5 ford relays, all bench test good. I'm guessing that the points/contact in ford relays are bad. The modern relay is 1/3 the size of the ford one. Had it on a one way trip of 1 1/2 hour, then back home and it worked every time.

Drbrown · 01-01-2016, 11:39 PM

Using a heavy gauge wire feed and a relay for a 30 amp circuit is important. 30 amps would be a lot to run thru an ignition switch. My BW R10 OD has a ground wire from its case to the car body.

whb52ford · 01-02-2016, 01:22 AM

I ran a ground from one of the screws on the solenoid to the bell housing and the relay to the bell housing.

Blu Dice · 01-02-2016, 09:36 AM

You might want to consider changing to an alternator if the problem continues. I hear great success with ODs with them. Just a thought.

Planojc · 01-02-2016, 09:50 AM

Bingo, Blu Dice hit it. I fought the same overdrive problems for about a year and finally installed a 6v alternator and about 4K miles later, no more problems.

whb52ford · 01-02-2016, 01:33 PM

I have been thinking about that. I have seen some alternators that are in a generator case, so it looks like a generator. I know I would not need the voltage regulator, but what other changes would I need to convert?

scooder · 01-02-2016, 04:14 PM

They worked for millions of miles on stock OEM stuff with generators, surely they should still work with generators if all parts are up to spec? It's only the initial shove of the solenoid that wants lots of amps, once it's engaged the holding coil takes over and draws a lot less amps. It should and did (for many years) work perfectly fine with no alternator.
Sounds like the OP's issue was bad relays, a bad relay will eat a bunch of amps whilst showing continuity on a bench test with a multi meter, in the same way a bad ground can show 6 volts with a meter, but put a bulb in the socket and it won't even glow a tiny bit.
Glad you got it sorted. And a big thank you for reporting back.
Martin.

whb52ford · 04-08-2016, 05:50 PM

Well I have it fixed. I ran a #10 wire from the battery to relay, then a #10 wire to solenoid. Still didn't work. I bought a $10 6v relay. It worked perfectly. All those relays I had tested good, but didn't work in the car. I gutted the original relay, and put the new one inside. Looks original, but new relay inside. Works perfect.

rotorwrench · 04-09-2016, 06:24 PM

Wiring on these is mostly in what we refer to in aviation as a "SWAMP" environment. "Severe Wind And Moisture Problem" is the definition for the acronym. The OEM wiring was never designed to last long for the place that they put it. They had the wire gauges correct and all but they didn't protect it well enough for the long haul. Modern wire is much more appropriate when used along with better protective sleeving.

There might also be a problem with the actuator pawl properly engaging the balk ring assembly inside the transmission. The pawl is what is actuated by the engagement solenoid. It has to smoothly lock into the slot in the ring to work the overdrive function. If there is a problem with the parts associated with this function then it may not engage all the way as it's supposed to.

Cecil/WV · 04-10-2016, 11:04 AM

I had trouble with my OD engaging, intermittently, for at least 10 years. Most of the time it would work but then it wouldn't. New wiring harness, several solenoids that all checked good on the bench and finally, a new relay which helped but when I took my generator and voltage regulator to a shop in Strasburg, Va, I found the voltage was just a bit low and got a new regulator that was set right and, so far, in addition to local driving I did the Black Hills Tour in S Dakota last Sept from WV and it hasn't missed a beat.

07-07-2015, 07:22 AM	#21
Mike51Merc Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northeast Pennsylvania Posts: 1,582	Re: Need overdrive help I wouldn't be so quick to blame the switch. If you're only getting 5V out of ignition switch---- how much do you have GOING IN to ignition switch? What else is connected to the ignition switch (answer-- everything but the lights and the horn)? You could have a parasitic draw from just about anywhere in the system. I'd spot check the entire system for voltage drops, moving from the battery forward.

07-07-2015, 02:51 PM	#22
whb52ford Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ocala, FL 34481 Posts: 235	Re: Need overdrive help I ran a #10 wire from starter relay to OD relay. Took it out for a ride. It worked as it should when I first drive it. As time went on, it would not shift into od, if I tried it a second or third time, it would go into OD. Before when I drove it a bit, it just would not go into OD. Now it will go into OD on a couple trys. Still not right.

07-07-2015, 03:23 PM	#23
G.M. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Florida and Penna. Posts: 4,471	Re: Need overdrive help Check your battery voltage when the problem happens. If I recall you said the amp meter showed a discharge. If the generator isn't charging your going to have the problems you describe. G.M. __________________ www.fordcollector.com

07-08-2015, 07:33 PM	#24
whb52ford Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ocala, FL 34481 Posts: 235	Re: Need overdrive help I checked power to relay car not running 6.23, out of relay 6.20. I put in a #10 wire from relay to solenoid. Have not had a chance to try it yet. Will let you know. About the amp meter. Yesterday the amp meter would flicker as the solenoid went into overdrive. A one second discharge and then back to where it should be.

07-14-2015, 06:54 PM	#25
whb52ford Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ocala, FL 34481 Posts: 235	Re: Need overdrive help I have had the car out for a few short trips and it shifted every time. Usually acts up on a long trip, so I'll have to wait and see, but I think putting in the heavier wire may have fixed it. Thanks to all for their help.

07-15-2015, 10:31 AM	#27
Blu Dice Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Plainfield, IN Posts: 360	Re: Need overdrive help Use of the heavy wires is a must in the entire overdrive system for it to function correctly. AND good grounds at motor to frame/body/trany. Also a weak battery will cause issues as well as poor output of the generator. __________________ 4 doors are better than no doors!

01-01-2016, 10:00 PM	#29
whb52ford Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ocala, FL 34481 Posts: 235	Re: Need overdrive help Believe it or not I think I finally got it fixed. I replaced the relay with a new modern one. I got a 6v 30 amp Relay off eBay. I have 5 ford relays, all bench test good. I'm guessing that the points/contact in ford relays are bad. The modern relay is 1/3 the size of the ford one. Had it on a one way trip of 1 1/2 hour, then back home and it worked every time.

01-01-2016, 11:39 PM	#30
Drbrown Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Glens Falls NY Posts: 1,267	Re: Need overdrive help Using a heavy gauge wire feed and a relay for a 30 amp circuit is important. 30 amps would be a lot to run thru an ignition switch. My BW R10 OD has a ground wire from its case to the car body.

01-02-2016, 01:22 AM	#31
whb52ford Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ocala, FL 34481 Posts: 235	Re: Need overdrive help I ran a ground from one of the screws on the solenoid to the bell housing and the relay to the bell housing.

01-02-2016, 09:36 AM	#32
Blu Dice Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Plainfield, IN Posts: 360	Re: Need overdrive help You might want to consider changing to an alternator if the problem continues. I hear great success with ODs with them. Just a thought. __________________ 4 doors are better than no doors!

01-02-2016, 09:50 AM	#33
Planojc Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Plano, Texas Posts: 850	Re: Need overdrive help Bingo, Blu Dice hit it. I fought the same overdrive problems for about a year and finally installed a 6v alternator and about 4K miles later, no more problems.

01-02-2016, 01:33 PM	#34
whb52ford Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ocala, FL 34481 Posts: 235	Re: Need overdrive help I have been thinking about that. I have seen some alternators that are in a generator case, so it looks like a generator. I know I would not need the voltage regulator, but what other changes would I need to convert?

01-02-2016, 04:14 PM	#35
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: Need overdrive help They worked for millions of miles on stock OEM stuff with generators, surely they should still work with generators if all parts are up to spec? It's only the initial shove of the solenoid that wants lots of amps, once it's engaged the holding coil takes over and draws a lot less amps. It should and did (for many years) work perfectly fine with no alternator. Sounds like the OP's issue was bad relays, a bad relay will eat a bunch of amps whilst showing continuity on a bench test with a multi meter, in the same way a bad ground can show 6 volts with a meter, but put a bulb in the socket and it won't even glow a tiny bit. Glad you got it sorted. And a big thank you for reporting back. Martin.

04-08-2016, 05:50 PM	#36
whb52ford Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ocala, FL 34481 Posts: 235	Re: Need overdrive help Well I have it fixed. I ran a #10 wire from the battery to relay, then a #10 wire to solenoid. Still didn't work. I bought a $10 6v relay. It worked perfectly. All those relays I had tested good, but didn't work in the car. I gutted the original relay, and put the new one inside. Looks original, but new relay inside. Works perfect.

04-09-2016, 06:24 PM	#37
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: Need overdrive help Wiring on these is mostly in what we refer to in aviation as a "SWAMP" environment. "Severe Wind And Moisture Problem" is the definition for the acronym. The OEM wiring was never designed to last long for the place that they put it. They had the wire gauges correct and all but they didn't protect it well enough for the long haul. Modern wire is much more appropriate when used along with better protective sleeving. There might also be a problem with the actuator pawl properly engaging the balk ring assembly inside the transmission. The pawl is what is actuated by the engagement solenoid. It has to smoothly lock into the slot in the ring to work the overdrive function. If there is a problem with the parts associated with this function then it may not engage all the way as it's supposed to.

04-10-2016, 11:04 AM	#38
Cecil/WV Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gerrardstown, WV Posts: 2,266	Re: Need overdrive help I had trouble with my OD engaging, intermittently, for at least 10 years. Most of the time it would work but then it wouldn't. New wiring harness, several solenoids that all checked good on the bench and finally, a new relay which helped but when I took my generator and voltage regulator to a shop in Strasburg, Va, I found the voltage was just a bit low and got a new regulator that was set right and, so far, in addition to local driving I did the Black Hills Tour in S Dakota last Sept from WV and it hasn't missed a beat.