The Ford Barn

Plainsman30 · 07-17-2015, 09:58 PM

Hi,
I replaced a rubber ball type radius with the factory style radius. However, I don't know if it fits right. You can see in the picture that there is a gap between the top half of the cap and the bell housing casting. The top half does not seem to fit the contour of the casting very well. Is this the way it is supposed to be or do I need to do some grinding?

Thanks in advance

Drive Shaft Dave · 07-17-2015, 10:36 PM

I think the gap may be a little to wide , make sure the part that goes to the bell housing has the small hole in it. The two cups may be reversed.

Plainsman30 · 07-18-2015, 08:13 AM

The little hole is facing up, so the cups are not reversed. I originally thought the felt pad in the bell housing may be holding the top cup down, but that wasn't it. I also checked to be sure the mounting flange on the top cup was flat, but that wasn't it either. Thanks,

jhowes · 07-18-2015, 08:32 AM

Since ford used the rubber ball type in later fords, i was wondering what the opinions are about there use in the model "a". Or is like a white wall/black wall discussion?

RonC · 07-18-2015, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhowes

Since ford used the rubber ball type in later fords, i was wondering what the opinions are about there use in the model "a". Or is like a white wall/black wall discussion?

The rubber ball works well but slightly changes your caster angle which is the vertical angle (front to rear angle) of the king pins.

aermotor · 07-18-2015, 08:50 AM

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I may be wrong but I thought the rubber ball only went with the later cast caps and not the early caps.

Tom Wesenberg · 07-18-2015, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aermotor

I may be wrong but I thought the rubber ball only went with the later cast caps and not the early caps.

Yes, the rubber cap only goes with the thicker cast caps.

I don't think I'd worry about the slight gap in the top cap. Drive the car and see how it goes.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 07-18-2015, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Yes, the rubber cap only goes with the thicker cast caps.

I don't think I'd worry about the slight gap in the top cap. Drive the car and see how it goes.

Good idea, Tom, I've seen them "settle" in after driving awhile. And with the springs there, they usually DON'T need the nuts re-tightened.
Bill W.

swo4rd · 07-18-2015, 10:46 AM

I am only thinking out loud here, but you might need to grind down the bolt spacers (little pieces of steel or brass tubing) to get a tighter fit...I have noticed lately that the spacers provided in the kits all need to be ground down a bit.

Tom Wesenberg · 07-18-2015, 11:52 AM

BTW, I don't see any grease in the picture. I would have packed the ball with grease before assembly.

Plainsman30 · 07-18-2015, 05:36 PM

Thanks to all who replied. I will try the things suggested.
We did sometimes have a some shimmy at low speed when using the rubber ball, but the shimmy seems to be gone after switching to the factory set up. The ball does sit up higher and closer to the bell housing when using the factory set up compared to the rubber ball.

roddyb34 · 07-18-2015, 11:44 PM

I'm glad I have seen that pic ,,,it has prompted me to realise that my radius ball clamp springs were in the wrong place ,I recently dissembled the ball clamps and did wonder what action the springs would do seeing as they were clamped between the cups,,,there's a fair chance this would cause a looseness and be contributing to the poor driveability I have experienced ,,,the bolts also were bent slightly back also about half way along the exposed part of the bolt this may suggest that the cups were riding out from the mount thus bending the bolts ,,I may have been lucky not to have had more trouble because of this ,,,,

Plainsman30 · 07-19-2015, 09:32 PM

glad the picture helped.

30 Roadster Leon · 07-20-2015, 10:10 PM

My thought is that the inside bolt holes through the bell housing are worn down into the bell housing making the bolts appear to be too long. The result being that the nuts do not snug up the spacers to the top radius rod plate/bell housing without getting the nut too far from the cotter pin hole in the bolts. A possible sign of this situation is the bolt turning because the bolt head slot misses the cross pin due the bolt head being sunk into the bell housing.
There is a solution for this problem in the latest issue of one of the national Model A club magazines. It involves making bolt head washers from a specific spring.
I am currently involved with this problem on my Model A...waiting on parts delivery.
This repair is said to be possible without major component removal.

07-17-2015, 10:36 PM	#2
Drive Shaft Dave Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: New hope Minnesota Posts: 742	Re: Radius Ball Question I think the gap may be a little to wide , make sure the part that goes to the bell housing has the small hole in it. The two cups may be reversed.

07-18-2015, 08:13 AM	#3
Plainsman30 Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 72	Re: Radius Ball Question The little hole is facing up, so the cups are not reversed. I originally thought the felt pad in the bell housing may be holding the top cup down, but that wasn't it. I also checked to be sure the mounting flange on the top cup was flat, but that wasn't it either. Thanks, __________________ Mike

07-18-2015, 08:32 AM	#4
jhowes Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: upstate NY near Mass border Posts: 789	Re: Radius Ball Question Since ford used the rubber ball type in later fords, i was wondering what the opinions are about there use in the model "a". Or is like a white wall/black wall discussion?

07-18-2015, 08:50 AM	#6
aermotor Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,099	Re: Radius Ball Question Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I may be wrong but I thought the rubber ball only went with the later cast caps and not the early caps.

07-18-2015, 10:46 AM	#9
swo4rd Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Posts: 364	Re: Radius Ball Question I am only thinking out loud here, but you might need to grind down the bolt spacers (little pieces of steel or brass tubing) to get a tighter fit...I have noticed lately that the spacers provided in the kits all need to be ground down a bit.

07-18-2015, 11:52 AM	#10
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Radius Ball Question BTW, I don't see any grease in the picture. I would have packed the ball with grease before assembly.

07-18-2015, 05:36 PM	#11
Plainsman30 Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 72	Re: Radius Ball Question Thanks to all who replied. I will try the things suggested. We did sometimes have a some shimmy at low speed when using the rubber ball, but the shimmy seems to be gone after switching to the factory set up. The ball does sit up higher and closer to the bell housing when using the factory set up compared to the rubber ball. __________________ Mike

07-18-2015, 11:44 PM	#12
roddyb34 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Geelong Australia Posts: 119	Re: Radius Ball Question I'm glad I have seen that pic ,,,it has prompted me to realise that my radius ball clamp springs were in the wrong place ,I recently dissembled the ball clamps and did wonder what action the springs would do seeing as they were clamped between the cups,,,there's a fair chance this would cause a looseness and be contributing to the poor driveability I have experienced ,,,the bolts also were bent slightly back also about half way along the exposed part of the bolt this may suggest that the cups were riding out from the mount thus bending the bolts ,,I may have been lucky not to have had more trouble because of this ,,,,

07-19-2015, 09:32 PM	#13
Plainsman30 Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 72	Re: Radius Ball Question glad the picture helped. __________________ Mike

07-20-2015, 10:10 PM	#14
30 Roadster Leon Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1	Re: Radius Ball Question My thought is that the inside bolt holes through the bell housing are worn down into the bell housing making the bolts appear to be too long. The result being that the nuts do not snug up the spacers to the top radius rod plate/bell housing without getting the nut too far from the cotter pin hole in the bolts. A possible sign of this situation is the bolt turning because the bolt head slot misses the cross pin due the bolt head being sunk into the bell housing. There is a solution for this problem in the latest issue of one of the national Model A club magazines. It involves making bolt head washers from a specific spring. I am currently involved with this problem on my Model A...waiting on parts delivery. This repair is said to be possible without major component removal.