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Old 12-11-2019, 10:52 PM   #1
GB SISSON
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Default Running on 3 1/2

Been obsessed with this cut down log skidder/ junkyard wrecker. Tomorrow I will have had it a week. I have welded and reinforced so much of the structure and pressure washed it and lubed everything. Messed with ignition, carburetion, brakes, cooling etc, but still having a problem. # 4 is always oil fouled. When I short each plug as it's running, #4 drops little or no rpms. All cyls are very near 75 lbs compression, no blowby seen at the breather, no blue smoke. I decided to hot up the ignition a bit. I had a bosch blue 'super coil' us V8 guys like so I added that to my 12 v system, neg ground and alternator. I saw some hillbilly on youtube running his junkyard A on one cylinder... With barbed wire for plug wires. Tonight I decided to test my ignition, I was suspecting an internal cap problem on #4. I made a wood block with two brass screws that can be adjusted to separate them up to 1/2" or so. All 4 nubs on the cap would jump it. Next I pulled one 'wire' at a time until it was running on two cyls... #1 and #4. So I pulled #4 and it ran fine on #1.... Next I replaced #4 and removed #1..... What the heck... It ran on the one I thought was dead. No where as well as it ran on #1, but consistent just lower rpms. Why is the spark the same and the compression the same, but #4 is just weaK? In reality it's good enough for a doodlebug, but Like all you guys, There's just nothing quite like a model A enging running on all 4!~ Ideas? Probably not gvonna tear this one down. I remember JC whitney used to sell plugs that fire in oil????
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'47 1/2 ton pickup next project, '47 one ton panel 99% stock nearing completion, '47 2 ton with 8ba and 9' script stakebed, '46 1/2 ton woodie project,'59 F350 9' flareside pickup with cummins 6at. 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)
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Old 12-12-2019, 05:08 AM   #2
Wick
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Default Re: Running on 3 1/2

Broken or stuck oil ring.
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Old 12-12-2019, 09:05 AM   #3
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Default Re: Running on 3 1/2

I love that chain that supports the steering column,whats the part# LOL looks like a fun vehicle,good luck.
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Old 12-12-2019, 09:28 AM   #4
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Default Re: Running on 3 1/2

Had the same problem with our 2 cylinder lawn mower this past summer. It was so bad it blew oil right out the exhaust. Tore it down and the oil rings looked worn out. I honed the cylinders and put new rings in. Just got it running a couple days ago and no more smoke. Like Wick sez, you need new rings, at least in #4.
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Old 12-12-2019, 09:35 AM   #5
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Default Re: Running on 3 1/2

Just for the heck of it, pull the valve cover and see if you have a broken valve spring.
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Old 12-12-2019, 10:29 PM   #6
Chuck Sea/Tac
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Default Re: Running on 3 1/2

Out of curiosity, have you swapped plugs around?
Probably not the oil fouling problem, but a leaking or cracked intake will make one cylinder run crappy.
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Old 12-12-2019, 11:36 PM   #7
GB SISSON
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Default Re: Running on 3 1/2

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Originally Posted by Chuck Sea/Tac View Post
Out of curiosity, have you swapped plugs around?
Probably not the oil fouling problem, but a leaking or cracked intake will make one cylinder run crappy.
Funny you should ask... The manifold gasket I thought had it all buttoned up is leaking bad on #4 exhaust... Could easily be leaking on #4 intake. Just received new copper manifold gaskets with 'sleeves' installed at exhaust ports. Is there a 'goop' that would make up for irregularities? I have used remflex manifold gaskets (look it up) on various makes over the years. Solid graphite, compressible, fill the gaps. Do they make a model A mani gasket? And yes I have swapped plugs til the cows came home.... Then raided my vintage spark plug collection. Tried an edison, a splitdorf and a lincoln to no avail.
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Old 12-13-2019, 06:07 AM   #8
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Default Re: Running on 3 1/2

Your intake port should look normal,exhaust will be wet from oil. A leaky gasket will cause engin to backfire when you let off. Your top ring gives you the good compression, 2nd ring helps wipe the oil from the cylinder *could be broke/stuck/ . Oil ring * broke/stuck,worn out.
Try this....warm up engine, bring #4 to TDC and pour Seafoam into that cylinder. Let it sit a few
hours then turn motor over 1 time and repeat. Let sit overnight.
Add some seafoam to the gas tank. Go for a drive. You will have to change out the plug 1 more time.
After about 10 miles or so,the ring should start working again. Only if it's stuck.
Im guessing this motor sat for some time?
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Old 12-13-2019, 06:15 AM   #9
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Default Re: Running on 3 1/2

Just for a simple test....park it on that hill facing Downhill over night. When you start it up and drive it,if the plug doesn't fowl , then your oil drain hole in the valve chamber is restricted.
This is one cool rig!
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Old 12-13-2019, 10:08 AM   #10
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Default Re: Running on 3 1/2

Neat rig! I am assuming that the manifolds have been surfaced. Just my 2 cents worth.


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Old 12-13-2019, 12:34 PM   #11
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Default Re: Running on 3 1/2

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Originally Posted by 1930artdeco View Post
Neat rig! I am assuming that the manifolds have been surfaced. Just my 2 cents worth.


Mike
I have surfaced quite a few manifolds and other parts on my cast iron wood jointer's machined surface. I stick adhesive 80 grit sandpaper on it and chuff away. Before too long I have a nice gray new surface. I recently bought a 6" wide belt sander with almost 3' machined surface between the rollers. Couple hundred bucks at a yard sale. This worked like a champ, but I gotta admit I didn't check it afterwards with a straight edge. I have worked with my hands for 50 years and I felt I was applying even pressure. I used a fairly thin gasket and later read that there should be short metal tubes or rings at the exhaust ports. I will address this over the weekend as I have my new flanged copper sandwich gasket. Does it matter which direction the stamped flanges go? And do I need the rings with this type of gasket? Came from Ecklers.
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Old 12-13-2019, 05:09 PM   #12
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Default Re: Running on 3 1/2

Wick makes a good point in post # 8 . I usually run four ounces of marvel mystery oil for every ten gallons of gas , more in severe cases . Marvel oil and sea foam work in a similar manner . slow sticky valves can cause enough compression loss to cause a miss

It could be ignition . Check the gaps between the rotor tip and the contacts in the distributor cap body ? Ford recommended a gap of twenty five thousands at the rotor tip . More gap at the rotor tip will give hotter spark at the spark plug . If you've heard of putting a jump spark in the plug wires on old stove bolt chevys and flat head Fords after they started pumping oil, the added gap at the rotor tip will have the same effect with no change to the plug wires . I run mine with a gap of thirty five thousands, not because I need to but because I want hotter spark . A lot of distributor caps will have gaps that are all over the place . The cylinder with the least gap will have the coldest spark . I file the contacts in the cap body to increase gaps . It is always best to have the same gap at each contact . Another possibility is that some of the older and reproduction distributor caps will short between number four and number three cylinder and cause a miss . I had this problem once and eventually could see a spark in the dark where the number four spark plug wire strip passed over the edge of the cap heading for number four spark plug . The model A firing order is 1243 . If you make a close study of the distributor cap you may see a slightly melted spot on the insulation of the distributor cap where the spark was jumping through the insulation of the distributor cap and partially shorting out the spark to number 4 . It would be good if you had some used distributor caps to check and experiment with

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Old 12-13-2019, 06:02 PM   #13
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Default Re: Running on 3 1/2

I read in another post where you changed over to 12 volts and changed the coil . There will always be confusion about which coil to use with twelve volts . Coils are mostly rated in OHMs . If a three OHM coil is used on twelve volt , no resister will be used or needed . A 1.5 ohm coil can be used on six volt without the need for a resister . one confusing thing about coils is that a six volt or 1.5 ohm coil can also work on 12 volts but will need the use of a resistor to prevent the 12 volts from getting to the six volt coil . When 12 volts get through to a 1.5 ohm coil it will pit and burn the points very quickly . For warming up the spark it is always best to use the three ohm coil on 12 volts even if the coil is a performance coil . Using a resistor to run a 1.5 ohm coil on twelve volts means that you will be using the weaker version coil . This has been covered here a few years ago . An engineer at Pertronix explained this to a friend and the info was posted on this forum. I'll try to look back and find this info . I'm sure somebody won't believe that the 1.5 coil is weaker

. I like your rig . That's some nice logs on your avatar truck .
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Old 12-13-2019, 09:38 PM   #14
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Default Re: Running on 3 1/2

I use my trucks around my place. I'm a Seattle native who raised 4 kids here on Orcas Island in the Puget Sound. I arrived here in '76, bought my 5 acres in '78. Paid 18 grand, busted out the chain saw and ended up with a nice water view! Bought 5 more acres later and been grinding away ever since. I think I had forgotten how special the Model A is to me. I have been in the FH V8s for so long, but now that I'm less flexible the easy reach of parts is so great on the A! And with no fenders I just stand there and mess with the carb, dist and starter etc., God knows this one needs a lot of that. Tomorrow being Saturday I hope to dig into this weak #4 cyl and get it sorted out. I got a manifold gasket number from remflex for the model A. Without looking it up it's a 3040 part number. Most aftermarket folks like summit have a prefix... I think it's rfl3040. If anyone can link this it would be helpful. Thanks.
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Old 12-14-2019, 11:14 AM   #15
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Default Re: Running on 3 1/2

Try this:
https://www.summitracing.com/ga/part...3040/overview/
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Old 12-14-2019, 02:23 PM   #16
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Default Re: Running on 3 1/2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wick View Post
Just for a simple test....park it on that hill facing Downhill over night. When you start it up and drive it,if the plug doesn't fowl , then your oil drain hole in the valve chamber is restricted.
This is one cool rig!

Which oil drain hole in the valve chamber? I see 3 raised oil lines in bosses, maybe steel tubing lined, one in each chamber... Drains? What about the 1/4" hole on the floor of the front chamber and the 1/8" hole at the floor of the rear chamber? I have been searching oil drains in valve chamber here. Seems the main drain and controlling oil level in the valve chamber is the large external steel tube off the rear of the cover plate. I have been cleaning and flushing the 5 holes I see in the bottom of the valve chamber, but now I think the 3 raised ones feed oil to main bearings???? Plus is I think I have the manifolds squared away after this oily mess is taken care of. Help appreciated while I'm still in my filthy coveralls. Thanks!
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:29 AM   #17
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Default Re: Running on 3 1/2

Rear floor drain. Also,when you checked the compression on #4 and it was good like the other cylinders. Did you have the plug out in #3 at the same time?
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Old 12-15-2019, 10:45 AM   #18
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Default Re: Running on 3 1/2

Quote:
1/8" hole at the floor of the rear chamber?
That feeds the rear camshaft bearing.
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Old 12-15-2019, 02:01 PM   #19
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Default Re: Running on 3 1/2

I filled the floor of the rear chamber with 30w and it didn't drain down that hole. I blew compressed air through it, ran copper wire through it, poured laquer thinner in it. Even tried an old inner speedometer cable. It was always clean on the end, no sludge. I must have been bumping the cam bearing or journal. When re-fitting the manifolds I did notice that the rear intake port Was oily and black with crusty deposits on it and the forward one was bright and clean. As far as the compression test I did it both ways, same results. Hoping to get to town today to get some seafoam.
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Old 12-15-2019, 08:52 PM   #20
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Default Re: Running on 3 1/2

If the port is crusty it's had a problem for a long time. Ring is probably broke.
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