Oil Pan and Drag Link Interference 8BA in 36 Cabriolet

[tubman]

Originally Posted by blucar

The common method to mount an 8BA type of engine in an early chassis, ie; '36-48 is to use '49-50 merc pumps and/or truck pumps with the '49-50 merc spacers under the pumps to allow for the offset of the mounting bolts and shortness of the pump mounts.
I would also suggest that you get a car pan in lieu of the truck pan you have.

Boy, I seem to remember that the mounting height of the pads on the late Merc pumps are different than the truck pumps (higher in relation to the vehicle). I know because my test stand has the analogs of the '40-'48 Ford mounting geometry (I have used it to test a truck-pumped 8BA, as well as an Olds and a Hemi with Hurst mounts). When I went to mount the '51 Merc that eventually ended up in my '51 Ford, I had to make the spacers I mentioned ealier to bring it up to the correct height (it had the Merc pumps).

Also, why wouldn't the truck pan work? I have one and it seems to be the same outline as the Merc pan. I know the "cleanout" is prone to leaks, but given the rarity and price of Merc pans (per Coop), I'd use it if it fit.

It might be a good idea for the O/P to sight through the crank hole in the grille and see just where the crank bolt head is in relation to it. In the alternative, stick a dowel or welding rod through the hole and see where it ends up.

[kurt v]

Wouldn't looking at your fan tell you how much you have to pick the motor up ?

kurt

[nickthebandit]

I have only 1 Mercury motor mount. You can have it for free if you can use it.

[cadillac512]

Originally Posted by tubman

Boy, I seem to remember that the mounting height of the pads on the late Merc pumps are different than the truck pumps (higher in relation to the vehicle). I know because my test stand has the analogs of the '40-'48 Ford mounting geometry (I have used it to test a truck-pumped 8BA, as well as an Olds and a Hemi with Hurst mounts). When I went to mount the '51 Merc that eventually ended up in my '51 Ford, I had to make the spacers I mentioned ealier to bring it up to the correct height (it had the Merc pumps).

Also, why wouldn't the truck pan work? I have one and it seems to be the same outline as the Merc pan. I know the "cleanout" is prone to leaks, but given the rarity and price of Merc pans (per Coop), I'd use it if it fit.

It might be a good idea for the O/P to sight through the crank hole in the grille and see just where the crank bolt head is in relation to it. In the alternative, stick a dowel or welding rod through the hole and see where it ends up.

I believe you're correct on the pump mounting heights. I have both and a set of spacers to compare.



Terry

[40cpe]

I have both the 59 style pump and 8BA style on the shelf. Using the bolt hole in the center of the pump inlet as a reference point, I measured the mounting height to be the same. I have a '38 with an 8BA engine/truck pumps/truck pan and have the interference with the pan and drag link. The crank pulley also lines up with the grill crank hole and radiator chin hole, leading me to believe the engine isn't sitting too low in the chassis. I had a '40/8BA/truck pan 30 years ago. I wish I had paid more attention to how it was mounted.

I see the '36 picture that V8coopman posted has a dropped axle but that shouldn't make any difference in the relation of the oil pan to the pitman arm and drag link.

[tubman]

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Bringing this back up as there was a photo on the H.A.M.B. yesterday showing the difference between the mounting locations on 8RT (truck) pumps vs. the Merc pumps. To be clear, you still need the spacers if putting an 8RT pump-equipped 8BA into a '35-'40 Ford chassis. It becomes obvious that much taller spacers are required if you want to use Mercury pumps in such an installation.

[cadillac512]

Here's a pic of a single wide belt pump for a '41. This is the pump with the pulley's rear side 1" from the front of the block. You can see the difference in mounting height as Denny was saying.

[36cabrioletfrank]

Status update

1. I have replaced my worn out motor mounts with new ones. This has raised my engine.
2. Ray Jr at Helgers in RI found me a 49 merc oil pan. The sump on it is about 1.5" shorter than my present truck oil pan providing clearance for my drag link. Thanks Ray!
3. I got lucky and bought a nice 49 merc oil pickup on ebay at a reasonable price and a straight drag link and gaskets from vanpelt
4. Looks like this is going to work and I'm planning to do the install after Thanksgiving.

SOME QUESTIONS

WILL MY STOCK OIL PUMP MATCH UP OK WITH THE MERC OIL PICKUP?

AFTER I CONNECT THE OIL PICKUP, WILL IT BE IN THE PROPER POSITION TO SIT ON THE SHELF PROVIDED IN THE MERC OIL PAN WHEN I RAISE THE PAN INTO POSITION?

ANY OTHER TRICKS OR ADVICE ON THIS INSTALL?

THANKS TO ALL ONTHE BARN FOR YOUR HELP AND ADVICE! I'LL TRY TO TAKE SOME PICS DURING THE INSTALL AND POST THEM AFTER COMPLETION

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by 36cabrioletfrank

WILL MY STOCK OIL PUMP MATCH UP OK WITH THE MERC OIL PICKUP?

AFTER I CONNECT THE OIL PICKUP, WILL IT BE IN THE PROPER POSITION TO SIT ON THE SHELF PROVIDED IN THE MERC OIL PAN WHEN I RAISE THE PAN INTO POSITION?

Shown BELOW is the strange pickup designed to fit into the tray in the Merc pan. Feel fortunate that you found one reasonably as they normally list between $300 - $500 WHEN you can find one.

[36cabrioletfrank]

Status update

1. I have replaced my worn out motor mounts with new ones. This has raised my engine.
2. Ray Jr at Helgers in RI found me a 49 merc oil pan. The sump on it is about 1.5" shorter than my present truck oil pan providing clearance for my drag link. Thanks Ray!
3. I got lucky and bought a nice 49 merc oil pickup on ebay at a reasonable price and a straight drag link and gaskets from vanpelt
4. Looks like this is going to work and I'm planning to do the install after Thanksgiving.

SOME QUESTIONS

WILL MY STOCK OIL PUMP MATCH UP OK WITH THE MERC OIL PICKUP?

AFTER I CONNECT THE OIL PICKUP, WILL IT BE IN THE PROPER POSITION TO SIT ON THE SHELF PROVIDED IN THE MERC OIL PAN WHEN I RAISE THE PAN INTO POSITION?

ANY OTHER TRICKS OR ADVICE ON THIS INSTALL?

THANKS TO ALL ONTHE BARN FOR YOUR HELP AND ADVICE! I'LL TRY TO TAKE SOME PICS DURING THE INSTALL AND POST THEM AFTER COMPLETION

[21stud]

Thanks for update, you were lucky to find those merc parts!

Yes, your 8BA oil pump will fit to merc pick-up tube assy. It is nice fit with that correct oil pan. These together are the best possible windage tray solution for flathead V8. Just check pick-up tube isn't bent and your good to go.

[JM 35 Sedan]

I did this conversion in 1959 in my '35 3w coupe, when I was 15 yo :-) (not kidding). I had a 59ab in the car that developed a knock so I hit the local junk yards looking for a good replacement engine. I think I got lucky when I found a '49 mercury that apeared to have a good clean engine with wide belt pulley water pumps, U shaped spacers and the attached bell housing needed to bolt to the '35 top loader transmission. I think it took me a day, maybe two to pull the old and drop in the new to me, but probably used pretty hard back in those days. The only unexpected problem I ran into was with the fan to radiator clearance. Somehow I managed to squeeze in the minimum amount of clearance necessary and drove it that way from '60 to '62 until I signed up for several years in the Navy. Then when I got back home I did the unthinkable , pulled that Merc engine out and dropped in a 327ci sbc. Back then figured it was the right thing to do