The Ford Barn

Mart · 03-18-2022, 02:05 PM

Wow pretty brave to cut an access hole in the tube like that. Hopefully the tube will not distort too much when you weld it in.

FlatheadEric · 03-18-2022, 02:20 PM

Mart, I considered that there was already a similar hole in the front of the tube for the speedo drive so I did similar.
I used JB Weld to stick the patch in place as I didn't want to apply heat to the area a risk burning the new seal.

HDowse · 03-18-2022, 07:04 PM

Excellent solution to a difficult problem. I wonder if the mechanics in the 30s just didn’t replace the seals? I suppose they never needed to until much later on. To answer Mart, I believe the thinner dimpled race that takes the larger diameter bearing would fit the earlier style torque tube but you’d need to figure a way to make a receiving spot for the split sleeve dimple. In any event, it’s good to see such a creative solution.

Brian · 03-19-2022, 02:00 PM

It is possible to purchase from a bearing supplier, a split thin wall outer race of the correct dimensions, that does not have the dimple.

brendan17 · 10-14-2023, 02:54 PM

I replaced the race and reinstalled the torque tube on my '39. I went to install the bearing and the drive shaft is not centered perfectly in the tube and it's difficult to install the bearing. I can get the bearing started if I move the shaft by hand but is it ok to have to do that or should it be centered on its own? I'm concerned about the shat putting tension on the bearing and wearing it out or causing some other problem. I don't want to put it back together only to have a problem and have to take it apart later. I should also note that the car is on jack stands with no wheels on it.

Thanks.

19Fordy · 10-14-2023, 03:25 PM

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Perhaps I am wrong but, with the car on jackstands with the rear end hanging free, the inner steel drive shaft might not be straight enough for the bearing to slide on.

Trying supporting the rear end and see if the steel drive shaft moves a little bit for better alignment.

brendan17 · 10-14-2023, 04:48 PM

Thanks. I was able to get the bearing in now I have a new issue. I put the bearing in, then the thrust washer and then the speedo gear but can't see the groove that the clip sits in. I know the bearing sleeve is in properly and it feels like the bearing is seated, so I don't want to try to force the bearing in more. Do I really need that clip?

cadillac512 · 10-14-2023, 05:06 PM

If you pull forward on the shaft will it move at all? Wondering if the shaft shifted back a bit on a worn pin at the rear. Maybe the groove will show if so.

brendan17 · 10-14-2023, 05:55 PM

I replaced the rear coupler and put new pins in. The whole rear is rebuilt.

Mart · 10-15-2023, 07:25 AM

Brendan, is this a modified torque tube and shaft? If so, the lengths might be off hence no groove available. If standard matched early ford parts, then it should be ok. If stock then maybe the seal has not been pushed fully home.

Mart.

brendan17 · 10-15-2023, 10:06 AM

Mart, thank you for your response. it's a stock tube, driveshaft and rear. In fact, it's the original parts except for the rear being rebuilt, new center bearing, sleeve, front bearing and rear coupler. Actually, this is my second go at this issue. I originally thought the bearing or sleeve wasn't seated properly so I took it all out and re-did it. Same issue but maybe a hair worse this time. In total I don't think I'm much more than an 1/8 to 3/16 of an inch off.

I put the u-joint on last night and it seats up close to the speedometer gear, so I'm really wondering how important that clip is. I hate putting it together with any issue but not sure it's a bi deal in this case. Any thoughts on that?

JM 35 Sedan · 10-15-2023, 11:05 AM

@Brendan17....In my humble opinion, you need to find out why that ring groove on the drive shaft is not accessible for properly mounting that ring. If you are using all stock/original parts on this assemble, something is wrong and should be corrected. Again this is just my opinion and I may be a bit anal about getting things assembled correctly on my cars, but sometimes it has saved my rear (no pun intended) in the long run. It's also the old saying...."do it once, do it right".

Mart · 10-15-2023, 12:34 PM

Do you have an extra thick gasket on the rear torque tube flange? Or how about one of those anti oil migration baffles that go between the torque tube and axle flange?
Is the six spline connector original or repro? I wonder if the hole centers might be a little too close together?

I don't know. Just trying to think of things that might cause the issue you are describing.

Seal right home? Only one thrust washer?

Can't think of anything else.

Mart.

brendan17 · 10-15-2023, 02:55 PM

So I took the torque tube back off to check the holes on the new coupler look right and they do. The holes are 1 1/8" from the ends of the coupler on both the original and the new.

I did notice something though. The spline coming from the pinion is threaded. If I loosen up the nuts can I adjust the spline to make it longer? I've attached a couple of pictures.

petehoovie · 10-15-2023, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brendan17

So I took the torque tube back off to check the holes on the new coupler look right and they do. The holes are 1 1/8" from the ends of the coupler on both the original and the new.

I did notice something though. The spline coming from the pinion is threaded. If I loosen up the nuts can I adjust the spline to make it longer? I've attached a couple of pictures.

V8COOPMAN · 10-15-2023, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brendan17

So I took the torque tube back off to check the holes on the new coupler look right and they do. The holes are 1 1/8" from the ends of the coupler on both the original and the new.

I did notice something though. The spline coming from the pinion is threaded. If I loosen up the nuts can I adjust the spline to make it longer? I've attached a couple of pictures.

brendan ..... Don't even think about moving those pinion nuts. That has to do with setting-up the clearances between ring & pinion.

What you should be REALLY concerned with is MATCHING the dimension BETWEEN the two holes (pins) on that coupler. That dimension should match the coupler that was original to the drive shaft.

Coop

.

Mart · 10-15-2023, 05:49 PM

Ok. Try this.

Using a tape measure, measure from the edge of the pin nearest the axle to the end of the driveshaft. Use mm for this measurement. I'm talking about the edge of the pin uppermost in the photo. (see my video if unsure) Discount the bulging of the head of the pin.

Now measure the length of the torque tube, from the face of the flange to the end of the bell. Again, use mm for this dimension.

The difference between the two measurements should be 70mm. The torque tube is 70mm longer than the driveshaft. This difference should be the same for any axle 35-48.

Check the dimension and report back.

You might find this video interesting.

https://youtu.be/-mOo2eZX_2U

Mart.

brendan17 · 10-15-2023, 08:21 PM

Mart, thanks for that info. I will follow-up on it. After taking everything apart today and taking measurements with the bearing sleeve in and out and putting the speedo gear housing on with the sleeve in I'm pretty sure I have an issue with the grease seal. I think it's too think. It's definitely seated.

With the sleeve in one of the bolts for the speedo gear housing on hits the sleave. The sleave is up against the seal but seems to be sticking out too far.

Any recommendations on who to purchase the seals from?

Hippolyt Hot Rods · 10-16-2023, 04:27 AM

I see these problems coming too, when I will change the Banjo rearend in my 36 Coupe for a Columbia.

Hippolyt Hot Rods · 10-16-2023, 06:48 AM

Is it possible to change the rearend without removing the torq tube?

03-18-2022, 02:05 PM	#21
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,755	Re: Torque Tube Seal Wow pretty brave to cut an access hole in the tube like that. Hopefully the tube will not distort too much when you weld it in.

03-18-2022, 02:20 PM	#22
FlatheadEric Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Raglan, New Zealand Posts: 97	Re: Torque Tube Seal Mart, I considered that there was already a similar hole in the front of the tube for the speedo drive so I did similar. I used JB Weld to stick the patch in place as I didn't want to apply heat to the area a risk burning the new seal. Last edited by FlatheadEric; 03-18-2022 at 02:32 PM.

03-18-2022, 07:04 PM	#23
HDowse Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Hancock, New Hampshire Posts: 375	Re: Torque Tube Seal Excellent solution to a difficult problem. I wonder if the mechanics in the 30s just didn’t replace the seals? I suppose they never needed to until much later on. To answer Mart, I believe the thinner dimpled race that takes the larger diameter bearing would fit the earlier style torque tube but you’d need to figure a way to make a receiving spot for the split sleeve dimple. In any event, it’s good to see such a creative solution.

03-19-2022, 02:00 PM	#24
Brian Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Masterton, New Zealand Posts: 3,834	Re: Torque Tube Seal It is possible to purchase from a bearing supplier, a split thin wall outer race of the correct dimensions, that does not have the dimple. __________________ Unfortunately, two half wits don't make a whole wit!

10-14-2023, 02:54 PM	#25
brendan17 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Frederick, MD Posts: 22	Re: Torque Tube Seal I replaced the race and reinstalled the torque tube on my '39. I went to install the bearing and the drive shaft is not centered perfectly in the tube and it's difficult to install the bearing. I can get the bearing started if I move the shaft by hand but is it ok to have to do that or should it be centered on its own? I'm concerned about the shat putting tension on the bearing and wearing it out or causing some other problem. I don't want to put it back together only to have a problem and have to take it apart later. I should also note that the car is on jack stands with no wheels on it. Thanks.

10-14-2023, 03:25 PM	#26
19Fordy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Coral Springs FL Posts: 10,950	Re: Torque Tube Seal Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Perhaps I am wrong but, with the car on jackstands with the rear end hanging free, the inner steel drive shaft might not be straight enough for the bearing to slide on. Trying supporting the rear end and see if the steel drive shaft moves a little bit for better alignment.

10-14-2023, 04:48 PM	#27
brendan17 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Frederick, MD Posts: 22	Re: Torque Tube Seal Thanks. I was able to get the bearing in now I have a new issue. I put the bearing in, then the thrust washer and then the speedo gear but can't see the groove that the clip sits in. I know the bearing sleeve is in properly and it feels like the bearing is seated, so I don't want to try to force the bearing in more. Do I really need that clip?

10-14-2023, 05:06 PM	#28
cadillac512 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Kansas Posts: 921	Re: Torque Tube Seal If you pull forward on the shaft will it move at all? Wondering if the shaft shifted back a bit on a worn pin at the rear. Maybe the groove will show if so. __________________ "It don't take but country smarts to solve the problem" (Smokey Yunick) '41 Merc Town Sedan / 260" 8CM engine '66 Fairlane four door / "warmed up" 302

10-14-2023, 05:55 PM	#29
brendan17 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Frederick, MD Posts: 22	Re: Torque Tube Seal I replaced the rear coupler and put new pins in. The whole rear is rebuilt.

10-15-2023, 10:06 AM	#31
brendan17 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Frederick, MD Posts: 22	Re: Torque Tube Seal Mart, thank you for your response. it's a stock tube, driveshaft and rear. In fact, it's the original parts except for the rear being rebuilt, new center bearing, sleeve, front bearing and rear coupler. Actually, this is my second go at this issue. I originally thought the bearing or sleeve wasn't seated properly so I took it all out and re-did it. Same issue but maybe a hair worse this time. In total I don't think I'm much more than an 1/8 to 3/16 of an inch off. I put the u-joint on last night and it seats up close to the speedometer gear, so I'm really wondering how important that clip is. I hate putting it together with any issue but not sure it's a bi deal in this case. Any thoughts on that?

10-15-2023, 11:05 AM	#32
JM 35 Sedan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland Posts: 10,858	Re: Torque Tube Seal @Brendan17....In my humble opinion, you need to find out why that ring groove on the drive shaft is not accessible for properly mounting that ring. If you are using all stock/original parts on this assemble, something is wrong and should be corrected. Again this is just my opinion and I may be a bit anal about getting things assembled correctly on my cars, but sometimes it has saved my rear (no pun intended) in the long run. It's also the old saying...."do it once, do it right". __________________ *John* *"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein* Last edited by JM 35 Sedan; 10-15-2023 at 11:23 AM.

10-15-2023, 12:34 PM	#33
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,755	Re: Torque Tube Seal Do you have an extra thick gasket on the rear torque tube flange? Or how about one of those anti oil migration baffles that go between the torque tube and axle flange? Is the six spline connector original or repro? I wonder if the hole centers might be a little too close together? I don't know. Just trying to think of things that might cause the issue you are describing. Seal right home? Only one thrust washer? Can't think of anything else. Mart.

10-15-2023, 05:49 PM	#37
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,755	Re: Torque Tube Seal Ok. Try this. Using a tape measure, measure from the edge of the pin nearest the axle to the end of the driveshaft. Use mm for this measurement. I'm talking about the edge of the pin uppermost in the photo. (see my video if unsure) Discount the bulging of the head of the pin. Now measure the length of the torque tube, from the face of the flange to the end of the bell. Again, use mm for this dimension. The difference between the two measurements should be 70mm. The torque tube is 70mm longer than the driveshaft. This difference should be the same for any axle 35-48. Check the dimension and report back. You might find this video interesting. https://youtu.be/-mOo2eZX_2U Mart.

10-15-2023, 08:21 PM	#38
brendan17 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Frederick, MD Posts: 22	Re: Torque Tube Seal Mart, thanks for that info. I will follow-up on it. After taking everything apart today and taking measurements with the bearing sleeve in and out and putting the speedo gear housing on with the sleeve in I'm pretty sure I have an issue with the grease seal. I think it's too think. It's definitely seated. With the sleeve in one of the bolts for the speedo gear housing on hits the sleave. The sleave is up against the seal but seems to be sticking out too far. Any recommendations on who to purchase the seals from?

10-16-2023, 04:27 AM	#39
Hippolyt Hot Rods Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Europe Posts: 10	Re: Torque Tube Seal I see these problems coming too, when I will change the Banjo rearend in my 36 Coupe for a Columbia.

10-16-2023, 06:48 AM	#40
Hippolyt Hot Rods Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Europe Posts: 10	Re: Torque Tube Seal Is it possible to change the rearend without removing the torq tube?