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08-29-2021, 06:43 AM | #41 |
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Re: Yes,there IS such a critter as a factory FOM flat 6 Ford!
Thanks petehoovie & Tubman for the info. Got a ride in a 51 Vicky V8 auto when i was 16 & thought it was O K, but the tranny leaaked like a sive so i passed. Sure would like to ride in a 51 six with auto just to see if it would be better than a gutless Powerglide Ch----y.
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08-29-2021, 07:01 AM | #42 | |
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Re: Yes,there IS such a critter as a factory FOM flat 6 Ford!
Quote:
This was brought home to me in 1967, when I got my first '67 Corvette coupe. That car had a 327/350, regular 4-speed, and 3.70 gears. I had a friend who had a '66 Corvette coupe with the same setup, except he had opted for 3.08 cars. In short, while my car was pretty fast,, his was a downright pig with those gears. So bad in fact, that he would get beat by Impalas with 300 HP Powerglides. My '51, built in St. Paul with a standard transmission came with 3.55 gears. I would imagine a six with 3.73's or 4.11's would outjump it up to 30. |
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08-29-2021, 12:54 PM | #43 | |
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Re: Yes,there IS such a critter as a factory FOM flat 6 Ford!
Quote:
I'll bet you're wrong...The gear ratios would have to be the same for a comparison test like this to be accurate/fair... Given your analogy, McCahill should have tested a '51 Rambler or any other car for that matter...
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The only thing nice about being imperfect is the joy it brings to others.... "Silver rings, your butt! Them's washers!" "We shot our way out of that town for a dollar's worth of steel holes!" - from 'The Wild Bunch' - 1969 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NReUd2_0u0 |
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08-29-2021, 01:14 PM | #44 | |
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Re: Yes,there IS such a critter as a factory FOM flat 6 Ford!
Quote:
These early "tests" were notoriously, um, unscientific. |
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08-29-2021, 01:30 PM | #45 | |
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Re: Yes,there IS such a critter as a factory FOM flat 6 Ford!
Quote:
A lot like your posts....
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The only thing nice about being imperfect is the joy it brings to others.... "Silver rings, your butt! Them's washers!" "We shot our way out of that town for a dollar's worth of steel holes!" - from 'The Wild Bunch' - 1969 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NReUd2_0u0 Last edited by petehoovie; 08-29-2021 at 07:09 PM. |
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08-29-2021, 01:34 PM | #46 | |
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Re: Yes,there IS such a critter as a factory FOM flat 6 Ford!
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Sorry for getting a little off topic here but most of my information is on Mercury. Maybe Ford was a little lighter and faster? But Mercury had the bigger engine.
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08-29-2021, 07:18 PM | #47 |
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Re: Yes,there IS such a critter as a factory FOM flat 6 Ford!
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08-30-2021, 01:58 AM | #48 |
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Re: Yes,there IS such a critter as a factory FOM flat 6 Ford!
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08-30-2021, 05:55 PM | #49 |
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Re: Yes,there IS such a critter as a factory FOM flat 6 Ford!
Ok,since I will never figure this out,if someone will PM me their email address,I will send them photos and descriptions,and they can then post the stuff for me.
Thanks in advance, LazarusLong Last edited by LazarusLong; 08-30-2021 at 08:32 PM. |
08-31-2021, 06:09 PM | #50 |
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Re: Yes,there IS such a critter as a factory FOM flat 6 Ford!
Ok,I have now given up on posting photos of the 51 flat 6 FOM parts. I got one photo down to 231kb,and got a message it was too big to post.
Thanks to chemo brain,I am just not as sharp as I used to be. If any of you want to see photos of the transmission and driveshaft,send me a PM with your email address,and I will be more than happy to email them to you. |
08-31-2021, 11:06 PM | #51 | |
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Re: Yes,there IS such a critter as a factory FOM flat 6 Ford!
Quote:
https://youtu.be/sdP9Bvbojoo
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08-31-2021, 11:17 PM | #52 |
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Re: Yes,there IS such a critter as a factory FOM flat 6 Ford!
Thank you VERY much!
I will read it and try to learn more once I get a little more rested. |
08-31-2021, 11:22 PM | #53 |
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Re: Yes,there IS such a critter as a factory FOM flat 6 Ford!
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09-01-2021, 05:12 AM | #54 |
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Re: Yes,there IS such a critter as a factory FOM flat 6 Ford!
Here are Authurs photos although the descriptions are not with the photos hopefully you can figure them out as I had to get to work! Steve
B The data tag on the side of the transmission is different from any FoMoCo tag I have ever seen. It is POSSIBLE it is the original tag that identifies it as a 6 cyl FOM trans,but it is also possible it is the tag of a "rebuilder". I have no idea which it is. BTW,my friend who restores Studes says he believes it to be a direct replacement for the auto trans in his early 50's 6 cylinder Studebakers. He has also told me he has had both the V-8 and the flat 6 early FOM's apart for rebuilding,and sees no practical difference between the 6 and the 8Driveshaft nose coupling. I suspect this will be the toughest part to find for anybody restoring one. After all,nobody saves driveshafts when they strip a car for to the crusher. You would most likely have to look around Stude restorers to find the part This is a photo of the trans tailshaft so you can see the coupling "sleeve". Just for grins,below is a photo of the 3x1 intake I have for my flat 6 FordBelow is the high compression head I have for it. Notice the water distribution tube. For some reason the flat 6's were very popular with boat racers. Clay Smith of Clay Smith Cams got his start racing boats on Lake Michigan. It was reported that one Sunday Henry Ford attended the boat races and he could tell by hearing the flat 6 in Clay Smith's boat that it was turning waaay too many RPM's to stay together,so he walked down to the shoreline to talk with the boat owner,and met 17 year old Clay Smith. When Ford asked him how many RPM's he was turning (7,000 rpms) and how he held it together,Smith supposedly told him "I cross-drilled the crank for better oil flow",Ford hiring him on the spot as a consultant to Ford Motor Company on a handshake deal. I have no idea if this is true or not,but that is what I have read Last edited by STEVE O; 09-01-2021 at 06:23 AM. |
09-01-2021, 09:16 AM | #55 |
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Re: Yes,there IS such a critter as a factory FOM flat 6 Ford!
The 1P-7003 series is correct for all of the early Borg Warner FOM/MOM designs and yes, there were other manufacturers that used Borg Warner designs. Not all are the same as the FOM/MOM design. FoMoCo purchased exclusivity from Borg Warner for this design but it was only for 5-years so other manufacturers had to negotiate purchases with FoMoCo. Plenty of 215 OHV Ford 6-cylinder engines were sold with the FOM transmissions. I've yet to see an OEM installation of an FOM for the Ford 226 H-series flathead 6-cylinder engine. Not saying it was never done. I just haven't seen any evidence yet.
An FOM could be adapted to fit the 226 but it would take a drive plate modified to fit, a torque converter & flex plate to work with the drive plate & crankshaft, and all the throttle/TV control mechanism to operate the transmission. It may also need a rear mount similar to what the V8 set up used in 1951. The rear axle drive gearing would be better with the V8 type ratios but it may work OK with the stock 6-cylinder ratios. I don't know what the RPMs would be at highway speeds though. A steering column from a V8 car would be a bolt in for gear selection controls. Last edited by rotorwrench; 09-01-2021 at 09:28 AM. |
09-01-2021, 11:03 AM | #56 |
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Re: Yes,there IS such a critter as a factory FOM flat 6 Ford!
Gee whiz; I was thinking there would be more to see; like pictures of the whole set-up.
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09-01-2021, 11:19 AM | #57 |
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Re: Yes,there IS such a critter as a factory FOM flat 6 Ford!
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09-01-2021, 03:59 PM | #58 | |
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Re: Yes,there IS such a critter as a factory FOM flat 6 Ford!
Quote:
Funny how the same basic story has so many variations! The version I read in a car magazine years ago said this happened at the Detroit Hydroplane Race in 1948 or so on the Detroit River. Henry Ford died in 1947 and was pretty much incapacitated from a stroke for some years before. Some Ford engineers were there and their question was how these guys avoided breaking crankshafts because the six had a bad harmonic frequency vibration around 4800 RPM that caused cranks to fracture. The reply was that the engine went through that RPM range so quickly that the vibration was not a problem! As I recall Fran Hernandez was also involved, and this event led to his career at Ford. Anyway, it's another example of hot rodders outdoing the factory. |
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09-01-2021, 07:58 PM | #59 |
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Re: Yes,there IS such a critter as a factory FOM flat 6 Ford!
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09-01-2021, 08:02 PM | #60 | |
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Re: Yes,there IS such a critter as a factory FOM flat 6 Ford!
Quote:
I doubt anybody here is old enough to have actually heard and witnessed what happened. i,for one,would like to find out why the flat 6's were so popular in race boats. |
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