The Ford Barn

35 rancho · 02-06-2011, 05:41 PM

Got my 35 pickup on the road and have 52 miles on the new motor. It's a 1940 block and i hooked a the 36 oil guage with a 12 to 6 volt reducer. I get it to move just a little May be 1 or 2 lbs. I wasn't comfortable with that so iI installed a mechanical in the other port. still not coming up much. I have penns 10/40 . Is there an range of presure I should maintain? Should I change the oil to Rotella 40 wt.? Thanks Dave

Cecil/WV · 02-06-2011, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 35 rancho

Got my 35 pickup on the road and have 52 miles on the new motor. It's a 1940 block and i hooked a the 36 oil guage with a 12 to 6 volt reducer. I get it to move just a little May be 1 or 2 lbs. I wasn't comfortable with that so iI installed a mechanical in the other port. still not coming up much. I have penns 10/40 . Is there an range of presure I should maintain? Should I change the oil to Rotella 40 wt.? Thanks Dave

Sounds like you have an internal problem. Is the plug in the oil galley behind the timing gear??

Lawson Cox · 02-06-2011, 05:50 PM

I believe Ford said 30 pounds at 30mph. No mention of pressure at idle. I have a 39 flathead in my 35 PU and at start up the oil pressure needle is out of site, after warm up it is sitting right at mid gauge.I have had a mechanical gauge on it too but cannot remember what the readings were. They looked good so I removed the temporary mechanical gauge. I may just put it back in some day.

ford1 · 02-06-2011, 05:57 PM

most fords dont show much pressure at idle, ford doesnt even give specs at idle, they just address the oil pressure readings as #30 at 30 mph, ive seen a lot of new engines show #3 or #4 at idle, going to a single weight oil might help because muli grade oils are very thin when cold and thicken as the temp rises, i would suggest you use 20-50, use about any oil as long as it doesnt say for gasoline engines only, that rating is for engines with roller tappets only

Jack E/NJ · 02-06-2011, 06:46 PM

Dave wrote>>>1 or 2 lbs. I wasn't comfortable with that so iI installed a mechanical>>> still not coming up much.>>>

Seems low as the mechanical guage on my rebuilt 221 reads 20psi at hot idle, 40psi on the road with 5w-20 synthetic blend. As Cecil mentioned, the brass plugs behind the cam gear and flywheel are sometimes forgotten on a rebuild. Might want to check that they're in place.

Jack E/NJ

JM 35 Sedan · 02-06-2011, 07:12 PM

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Which oil pump are you using and do you have some type of oil filter system installed? You could be having problems with one or both of these items. The oil galley plugs should be checked as others have suggested. Also, the gear on the rear of the cam could be loose. Your oil pressure sounds way too low to me for a newly built engine, JMHO. I had a similar problem on a '35 221ci 21 stud engine that I built 6 years ago. I had installed a MCF full flow oil filter system and the hose from the OP to the oil pan bulk head connection got twisted during assembly. That twist blocked the oil flow to almost nothing. I tried everything I could think of to get the OP up, but finally had to bite the bullet and pull the engine to find and fix the problem. Luckily, I did not damage anything in the engine during a brief run in. I now have over 5,000 miles on this engine and it has 60# oil pressure at start up, 40# at fast idle and 20# at idle.

georgewarren · 02-06-2011, 07:59 PM

"going to a single weight oil might help because muli grade oils are very thin when cold and thicken as the temp rises"
I think all motor oils thin out with rise in temp; A multi grade like 10w-30 means that the oil has the viscosity of a 10 weight at low temp, but has the viscosity of a 40 weight at high temp. You wouldn't want 40 weight in a tight engine on a freezing morning!
It does sound like there is an internal problem (like a missing plug or defective relief valve), but as long as you had some oil pressure and didn't stress the engine, little or no harm should have been done; this from experience ( I was sloppy!) Good luck!

Jack E/NJ · 02-06-2011, 08:44 PM

Geo sez >>>I think all motor oils thin out with rise in temp; A multi grade like 10w-40 means that the oil has the viscosity of a 10 weight at low temp, but has the viscosity of a 40 weight at high temp.>>>

And I think George is correct. But getting back to your low oil pressure Dave. If it was my motor, I'd have to bite the bullet and check to at least see that the plugs are in place.

First, I'd pull the timing gear to check for the front plug (not an easy task on my press fit cam gear). Then if it was there, I'd remove this plug (an impact screw driver likely needed) and insert a fairly straight, 2+ foot long coat-hanger wire into the valley tube as far as it'd go. Then I'd tap the coat-hanger wire lightly and listen carefully. If it sounded like it was tapping against something fairly solid, then the rear plug is probably in place and I'd feel good. 8^) But if tapping sounded a bit hollow --- like the wire was hitting a metal cover --- like the oil pump/cam gear train cover to be specific. Means the rear plug was missing. Then I'd feel really bad knowing what I'd have to do to remedy the problem. 8^(

Jack E/NJ

Karl Wolf · 02-06-2011, 10:25 PM

A well known and populiar supplier once sent me a std set of cam bearings with a cam that had the journals reground to .010 undersize... ANYone can screw up, so I do not say who... This would cause a bit of pressure drop... Karl

G.M. · 02-06-2011, 10:49 PM

I would drop the pan and put a quart of oil in a pressure tank and push it in the gauge port with 25 or 30 lbs of pressure and see where it leaks. Theres a good chance it's the bypass valve in the valley, the valve on a later pump or the pump itself. I would never put an oil pump in without testing it or put the engine in a car without running the starter on 12 volts with the plugs out, intake manifold off with a mechaical gauge installed. You can do this on the floor or on an engine stand and you know what you have. G.M.

Flathead Fever · 02-06-2011, 10:50 PM

Do you still have the mechanical fuel pump? I have read several sources that say If you install an electric fuel pump and eliminate the mechanical fuel pump rod without tapping and plugging the hole you will have lower oil pressure because the rod is no longer blocking the oil gallery that lubricates it. It's not supposed to be a problem on the later 8BA motors which were redesigned.

Just for kicks, one day I pulled the fuel pump rod out of my 59A motor to see if it made any difference in the oil pressure and it did not change?

danliveshere · 02-06-2011, 10:51 PM

Also check to see the pressure relief spring and plug is in place. about the easiest thing to check. good luck.

Marv · 02-07-2011, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgewarren

"going to a single weight oil might help because muli grade oils are very thin when cold and thicken as the temp rises"
I think all motor oils thin out with rise in temp; A multi grade like 10w-30 means that the oil has the viscosity of a 10 weight at low temp, but has the viscosity of a 40 weight at high temp. You wouldn't want 40 weight in a tight engine on a freezing morning!
It does sound like there is an internal problem (like a missing plug or defective relief valve), but as long as you had some oil pressure and didn't stress the engine, little or no harm should have been done; this from experience ( I was sloppy!) Good luck!

I know we are told its 10 weight oil cold and 40 weight hot. If this were true and it was 0 out your engine would crank right over and when it was 100 in the shade you would have to push it to start it. Think about it. Just put a quart of oil in the freezer overnight and take it out and try to pour it. I have and it is like molasses. Marv

billwill · 02-07-2011, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 35 rancho

Got my 35 pickup on the road and have 52 miles on the new motor. It's a 1940 block and i hooked a the 36 oil guage with a 12 to 6 volt reducer. I get it to move just a little May be 1 or 2 lbs. I wasn't comfortable with that so iI installed a mechanical in the other port. still not coming up much. I have penns 10/40 . Is there an range of presure I should maintain? Should I change the oil to Rotella 40 wt.? Thanks Dave

your oil presureis fine just runit

JM 35 Sedan · 02-07-2011, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billwill

your oil presureis fine just runit

WOW! Since when is 1 to 2 # of oil pressure fine in a newly built engine? Not good advice in my opinion. What say you engine builders....JWL, Walt Dupont, Ol Ron and others?

35 rancho · 02-07-2011, 02:23 PM

Thank You for all the information. I did get a hold of the builder of the block. He stated that I need to check the sending unit making sure it's a 50 lb. and also suggested 30 wt. oil with zink. I'll take his advice and see what happens and report back as things happen. thanks again Dave

OLD...BILL · 02-07-2011, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

WOW! Since when is 1 to 2 # of oil pressure fine in a newly built engine? Not good advice in my opinion. What say you engine builders....JWL, Walt Dupont, Ol Ron and others?

WOW and WOW two' I agree with John and I 'am sure others, there is somethikng a-miss. The plug on the north end of the block behind the timing gear, is where I would look, and then the intake off to see the releaf valve in the lifter chamber,,, ?,,,
NOW: My long story,about ''THE PLUG''..

Early 50s Iam in hi school and a member of a street rod car club. ( PACERS PASADENA ) So. Calif. We would take our engine parts to mech,shop for work and get back a box of parts and the block to put back togeather and make run, well one the most expensive blocks (3/8 stocker) we put back togeather, THAT PLUG was left out, and boy did we hear about it,

from the kids dad, who owned a plumbing shop, where we did some of the put it to gethger work, we found it,, fixed it,, and it ran great

At the next club meeting the kids dad. showed up, handed each of us " THE PLUG " and said if we ever wanted to work in his shop again we would haft to show THE PLUG to get in ... it became our " hall pass" we would see each other in the parking lot and show THE PLUG ...some of the grilfrinds carried the plug to back-up there guy...

one of the plugs went to chrome and was put on a "charm bralet"

alomst like being engaged

,,, true story .... OLD...BILL

keith oh · 02-07-2011, 03:41 PM

If you have a partial flow oil filter check to see if there is a restrictor in the line between the block and filter. If that line is full flow your oil pressure will be very low. If I remember correctly there should be a restrictor of about .050. Better yet, throw the filter away and change your oil at least every 1000 miles.

G.M. · 02-07-2011, 05:28 PM

A simple test for oil viscosity. Remove the dip stick when the engine is cold and count the time between oil drops off the stick. Drive the car for 20 or 30 miles or run the engine until it gets to 185 degrees. Now pull the dip stick and count the seconds between drops and you will find out just how thick multi viscosity oil gets when it is hot. Report back on this forum with the results. G.M.

felix37 · 02-07-2011, 07:46 PM

My 37 runs 50 psi on cold start up and once warm, runs around 7psi I run straight 50 weight and STP I put aprox 1200 miles on per month.

02-06-2011, 05:41 PM	#1
35 rancho Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: San Diego Posts: 92	Oil presure Got my 35 pickup on the road and have 52 miles on the new motor. It's a 1940 block and i hooked a the 36 oil guage with a 12 to 6 volt reducer. I get it to move just a little May be 1 or 2 lbs. I wasn't comfortable with that so iI installed a mechanical in the other port. still not coming up much. I have penns 10/40 . Is there an range of presure I should maintain? Should I change the oil to Rotella 40 wt.? Thanks Dave

02-06-2011, 06:46 PM	#5
Jack E/NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,173	Re: Oil presure Dave wrote>>>1 or 2 lbs. I wasn't comfortable with that so iI installed a mechanical>>> still not coming up much.>>> Seems low as the mechanical guage on my rebuilt 221 reads 20psi at hot idle, 40psi on the road with 5w-20 synthetic blend. As Cecil mentioned, the brass plugs behind the cam gear and flywheel are sometimes forgotten on a rebuild. Might want to check that they're in place. Jack E/NJ

02-06-2011, 07:12 PM	#6
JM 35 Sedan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland Posts: 10,858	Re: Oil presure Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Which oil pump are you using and do you have some type of oil filter system installed? You could be having problems with one or both of these items. The oil galley plugs should be checked as others have suggested. Also, the gear on the rear of the cam could be loose. Your oil pressure sounds way too low to me for a newly built engine, JMHO. I had a similar problem on a '35 221ci 21 stud engine that I built 6 years ago. I had installed a MCF full flow oil filter system and the hose from the OP to the oil pan bulk head connection got twisted during assembly. That twist blocked the oil flow to almost nothing. I tried everything I could think of to get the OP up, but finally had to bite the bullet and pull the engine to find and fix the problem. Luckily, I did not damage anything in the engine during a brief run in. I now have over 5,000 miles on this engine and it has 60# oil pressure at start up, 40# at fast idle and 20# at idle. __________________ *John* *"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein* Last edited by JM 35 Sedan; 02-07-2011 at 11:18 AM.

02-06-2011, 07:59 PM	#7
georgewarren Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Suffolk, VA & Key West, FL Posts: 119	Re: Oil presure "going to a single weight oil might help because muli grade oils are very thin when cold and thicken as the temp rises" I think all motor oils thin out with rise in temp; A multi grade like 10w-30 means that the oil has the viscosity of a 10 weight at low temp, but has the viscosity of a 40 weight at high temp. You wouldn't want 40 weight in a tight engine on a freezing morning! It does sound like there is an internal problem (like a missing plug or defective relief valve), but as long as you had some oil pressure and didn't stress the engine, little or no harm should have been done; this from experience ( I was sloppy!) Good luck!

02-06-2011, 08:44 PM	#8
Jack E/NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,173	Re: Oil presure Geo sez >>>I think all motor oils thin out with rise in temp; A multi grade like 10w-40 means that the oil has the viscosity of a 10 weight at low temp, but has the viscosity of a 40 weight at high temp.>>> And I think George is correct. But getting back to your low oil pressure Dave. If it was my motor, I'd have to bite the bullet and check to at least see that the plugs are in place. First, I'd pull the timing gear to check for the front plug (not an easy task on my press fit cam gear). Then if it was there, I'd remove this plug (an impact screw driver likely needed) and insert a fairly straight, 2+ foot long coat-hanger wire into the valley tube as far as it'd go. Then I'd tap the coat-hanger wire lightly and listen carefully. If it sounded like it was tapping against something fairly solid, then the rear plug is probably in place and I'd feel good. 8^) But if tapping sounded a bit hollow --- like the wire was hitting a metal cover --- like the oil pump/cam gear train cover to be specific. Means the rear plug was missing. Then I'd feel really bad knowing what I'd have to do to remedy the problem. 8^( Jack E/NJ

02-06-2011, 05:50 PM	#3
Lawson Cox Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Above the gnat line in Georgia Posts: 7,009	Re: Oil presure I believe Ford said 30 pounds at 30mph. No mention of pressure at idle. I have a 39 flathead in my 35 PU and at start up the oil pressure needle is out of site, after warm up it is sitting right at mid gauge.I have had a mechanical gauge on it too but cannot remember what the readings were. They looked good so I removed the temporary mechanical gauge. I may just put it back in some day.

02-06-2011, 05:57 PM	#4
ford1 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: oroville ca. Posts: 1,554	Re: Oil presure most fords dont show much pressure at idle, ford doesnt even give specs at idle, they just address the oil pressure readings as #30 at 30 mph, ive seen a lot of new engines show #3 or #4 at idle, going to a single weight oil might help because muli grade oils are very thin when cold and thicken as the temp rises, i would suggest you use 20-50, use about any oil as long as it doesnt say for gasoline engines only, that rating is for engines with roller tappets only

02-06-2011, 10:25 PM	#9
Karl Wolf Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mill Valley,Ca. Posts: 1,509	Re: Oil presure A well known and populiar supplier once sent me a std set of cam bearings with a cam that had the journals reground to .010 undersize... ANYone can screw up, so I do not say who... This would cause a bit of pressure drop... Karl

02-06-2011, 10:49 PM	#10
G.M. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Florida and Penna. Posts: 4,471	Re: Oil presure I would drop the pan and put a quart of oil in a pressure tank and push it in the gauge port with 25 or 30 lbs of pressure and see where it leaks. Theres a good chance it's the bypass valve in the valley, the valve on a later pump or the pump itself. I would never put an oil pump in without testing it or put the engine in a car without running the starter on 12 volts with the plugs out, intake manifold off with a mechaical gauge installed. You can do this on the floor or on an engine stand and you know what you have. G.M. __________________ www.fordcollector.com

02-06-2011, 10:50 PM	#11
Flathead Fever Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Yucaipa, CA Posts: 1,095	Re: Oil presure Do you still have the mechanical fuel pump? I have read several sources that say If you install an electric fuel pump and eliminate the mechanical fuel pump rod without tapping and plugging the hole you will have lower oil pressure because the rod is no longer blocking the oil gallery that lubricates it. It's not supposed to be a problem on the later 8BA motors which were redesigned. Just for kicks, one day I pulled the fuel pump rod out of my 59A motor to see if it made any difference in the oil pressure and it did not change?

02-06-2011, 10:51 PM	#12
danliveshere Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cairns , Australia Posts: 746	Re: Oil presure Also check to see the pressure relief spring and plug is in place. about the easiest thing to check. good luck.

02-07-2011, 02:23 PM	#16
35 rancho Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: San Diego Posts: 92	Re: Oil presure Thank You for all the information. I did get a hold of the builder of the block. He stated that I need to check the sending unit making sure it's a 50 lb. and also suggested 30 wt. oil with zink. I'll take his advice and see what happens and report back as things happen. thanks again Dave

02-07-2011, 03:41 PM	#18
keith oh Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Millersport, central ohio Posts: 668	Re: Oil presure If you have a partial flow oil filter check to see if there is a restrictor in the line between the block and filter. If that line is full flow your oil pressure will be very low. If I remember correctly there should be a restrictor of about .050. Better yet, throw the filter away and change your oil at least every 1000 miles.

02-07-2011, 05:28 PM	#19
G.M. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Florida and Penna. Posts: 4,471	Re: Oil presure A simple test for oil viscosity. Remove the dip stick when the engine is cold and count the time between oil drops off the stick. Drive the car for 20 or 30 miles or run the engine until it gets to 185 degrees. Now pull the dip stick and count the seconds between drops and you will find out just how thick multi viscosity oil gets when it is hot. Report back on this forum with the results. G.M. __________________ www.fordcollector.com

02-07-2011, 07:46 PM	#20
felix37 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Chattanooga, TN Posts: 1,093	Re: Oil presure My 37 runs 50 psi on cold start up and once warm, runs around 7psi I run straight 50 weight and STP I put aprox 1200 miles on per month.