The Ford Barn

Lanny · 02-10-2016, 01:06 AM

Do you have an inspection cover on top of the trans bell housing ?

.

George/Maine · 02-10-2016, 02:56 AM

They used to make pressure plate with 3 adjusting screws with like nut 6 point on end of finger. This was done to get the correct spacing.
Now if you look at a clock face the distance from 1 to 11 travel is more then 12 to 10 o'clock. Those screws take-up space.
I think when you remove the pp you will find NO Screws. Maybe FT Wayne has old style PP. Another thing is the 39 pedal has very little movement, and the 39 lever is a one year and is about 3" long. That's my guess.

Bored&Stroked · 02-10-2016, 09:00 AM

The reason the 39 pedal has little movement is because the clutch fork lever is short - that means that the actual throw-out bearing moves a lot more as compared to a 32 clutch fork lever (which is almost twice as long). The pedal pressure will be a lot more (given the same length pedal) - but so will the actual throw-out bearing movement (per inch of pedal travel). My guess, something is hanging up with the clutch disc . . . but we will see soon!

George/Maine · 02-10-2016, 09:54 AM

Here is another way to tell the travel of a lever.
Clock 1-11 ten minutes big hand
Clock 1-11 ten minutes little hand
Measure 1 A ----11 B big hand
now do little hand.
Same travel but takes less horz travel.
I had a 39 with a 32 lever longer, same problem the stock 39 lever is about 3"

fftoddster · 02-10-2016, 02:48 PM

No inspection cover.

I think I have ruled out any possibilities of it being the pedal arms or external linkages or how far they travel by eliminating them and rotating the cross shaft as far as it will go before something inside the clutch assy limits it.

Since the clutch disc, throw out bearing... were included in kit from Cornhusker and he says they have many out there with no issues the other likely causes would be:

1)Trans input shaft too long putting pressure on pilot bearing or back of crank.
- think I will loosen trans to bellhousing bolts and pull trans back 1/8-1/4" or so and see if that fixes issue

2) pressure plate issue, 3 fingers need to be adjusted out more? I do seem to recall they did have to bolts or nuts on the end.. not missing as was suggested a couple posts up.

Any body else have any other possibilities?

Krylon32 · 02-10-2016, 03:39 PM

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I have talked with FFtoddster and am baffled by his problem. Everything is the same stuff I have sold for many years successfully. The disc is the same one I have used for years from the same supplier. I do in the instructions instruct the user to check the input shaft length but that is rarely an issue. The external clutch arm I furnish is a 39 style which should geometrically be correct with his 39 pedal assembly. At first I thought he may have installed the fork and arm the wrong way on the shaft but he would have virtually no movement if that was the problem. I wish I could be more help but it's tough to diagnose a problem long distance. Gary at Cornhusker

Jack E/NJ · 02-10-2016, 05:44 PM

fftodster>>>Any body else have any other possibilities? >>>
>>>I have a sinking feeling it may be the clutch disc hub up against the pilot bearing.>>>

Now how do you suppose that could happen?

Jack E/NJ

A bones · 02-10-2016, 06:07 PM

If the fingers can be adjusted, then it is possible to get the plate disengaged.
Of course it must come apart
Problem though, is with no inspection hole or other access; kinda hard to hit the nail on the head when you can't watch the hammer.

Still curious as to what changed between first test and drive line install.

fftoddster · 02-10-2016, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack E/NJ

fftodster>>>Any body else have any other possibilities? >>>
>>>I have a sinking feeling it may be the clutch disc hub up against the pilot bearing.>>>

Now how do you suppose that could happen?

Jack E/NJ

That was before I talked with Cornhusker. I had reread his instructions and it said some of the clutch disc hubs needed to be machined because of this interference.
After talking with him he said it would not be the issue with the 9" disc he supplied, that was an issue in the past with some store bought discs...

George/Maine · 02-10-2016, 08:52 PM

I think you have a assemble problem.
Clutch disk on backwards, fork on backwards.
The screws on pressure plates are "NOT to be touched"
The new PPs don't have any and come up about 5/8" inward because of the new way. foreign made. Time to remove it and see what you find.

Jack E/NJ · 02-10-2016, 10:08 PM

George/Maine>>>Clutch disk on backwards, fork on backwards>>>

Thinkin' the same thing George when I posed the question.

Jack E/NJ

fftoddster · 02-13-2016, 08:22 PM

Well what a nightmare!!!
Pilot bearing stuck to input shaft.
What a chore to get apart. Had to pull on trans with a strap wench to rear end, and pry, wiggle, lots of cussing... finally got a bit of movement but would still not come apart.
Finally got it about 11/2" apart. Then pulled oil pan (not easy in car) then I was finally able to loosen pressure plate bolts and it came apart.

fftoddster · 02-13-2016, 08:28 PM

Clutch disc in the correct way, throw out bearing fork correct....

Guess that's why it worked briefly then stopped working. Worked till pilot bearing seized to input shaft.

Why? had soaked it in oil for a couple hours and had added a small amount of grease to input shaft...

Jack E/NJ · 02-13-2016, 08:49 PM

Bushing might not've been squarely seated?

Jack E/MJ

petehoovie · 02-13-2016, 08:54 PM

Get one like this >

Jack E/NJ · 02-13-2016, 08:57 PM

Yep, that's what I use too. Still gotta be squarely seated.

Jack E/NJ

JSeery · 02-13-2016, 09:22 PM

Did the bushing come from Cornhusker? That setup requires a special bushing (which you are most likely already aware of). If it is the correct bushing and it was installed square in the crank, then I would be checking the T5 input shaft to make sure it does not have an issue that is hanging it up. There is a lot of debate on which is better, a bushing or a bearing. I lean toward the bearing.

J Franklin · 02-13-2016, 09:37 PM

When you get it apart show us a photo of it. I couldn't see what you were trying to show. I didn't see a pilot bearing.

Jack E/NJ · 02-13-2016, 09:44 PM

His finger is pointing at the brass-colored bushing.

Jack E/NJ

J Franklin · 02-13-2016, 10:09 PM

It didn't look like it was on the input shaft and really large, maybe it is just my eyesight or the fact I am seeing it in 2 dimension.

02-10-2016, 01:06 AM	#21
Lanny Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mn Posts: 2,411	Re: clutch not disengaging Do you have an inspection cover on top of the trans bell housing ? . __________________ If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy. But if daddy ain't happy...RUN

02-10-2016, 02:56 AM	#22
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: clutch not disengaging They used to make pressure plate with 3 adjusting screws with like nut 6 point on end of finger. This was done to get the correct spacing. Now if you look at a clock face the distance from 1 to 11 travel is more then 12 to 10 o'clock. Those screws take-up space. I think when you remove the pp you will find NO Screws. Maybe FT Wayne has old style PP. Another thing is the 39 pedal has very little movement, and the 39 lever is a one year and is about 3" long. That's my guess.

02-10-2016, 09:00 AM	#23
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,073	Re: clutch not disengaging The reason the 39 pedal has little movement is because the clutch fork lever is short - that means that the actual throw-out bearing moves a lot more as compared to a 32 clutch fork lever (which is almost twice as long). The pedal pressure will be a lot more (given the same length pedal) - but so will the actual throw-out bearing movement (per inch of pedal travel). My guess, something is hanging up with the clutch disc . . . but we will see soon!

02-10-2016, 09:54 AM	#24
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: clutch not disengaging Here is another way to tell the travel of a lever. Clock 1-11 ten minutes big hand Clock 1-11 ten minutes little hand Measure 1 A ----11 B big hand now do little hand. Same travel but takes less horz travel. I had a 39 with a 32 lever longer, same problem the stock 39 lever is about 3"

02-10-2016, 02:48 PM	#25
fftoddster Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 158	Re: clutch not disengaging No inspection cover. I think I have ruled out any possibilities of it being the pedal arms or external linkages or how far they travel by eliminating them and rotating the cross shaft as far as it will go before something inside the clutch assy limits it. Since the clutch disc, throw out bearing... were included in kit from Cornhusker and he says they have many out there with no issues the other likely causes would be: 1)Trans input shaft too long putting pressure on pilot bearing or back of crank. - think I will loosen trans to bellhousing bolts and pull trans back 1/8-1/4" or so and see if that fixes issue 2) pressure plate issue, 3 fingers need to be adjusted out more? I do seem to recall they did have to bolts or nuts on the end.. not missing as was suggested a couple posts up. Any body else have any other possibilities?

02-10-2016, 03:39 PM	#26
Krylon32 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,489	Re: clutch not disengaging Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I have talked with FFtoddster and am baffled by his problem. Everything is the same stuff I have sold for many years successfully. The disc is the same one I have used for years from the same supplier. I do in the instructions instruct the user to check the input shaft length but that is rarely an issue. The external clutch arm I furnish is a 39 style which should geometrically be correct with his 39 pedal assembly. At first I thought he may have installed the fork and arm the wrong way on the shaft but he would have virtually no movement if that was the problem. I wish I could be more help but it's tough to diagnose a problem long distance. Gary at Cornhusker

02-10-2016, 05:44 PM	#27
Jack E/NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,173	Re: clutch not disengaging fftodster>>>Any body else have any other possibilities? >>> >>>I have a sinking feeling it may be the clutch disc hub up against the pilot bearing.>>> Now how do you suppose that could happen? Jack E/NJ

02-10-2016, 06:07 PM	#28
A bones Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: CLAYTON DE Posts: 1,283	Re: clutch not disengaging If the fingers can be adjusted, then it is possible to get the plate disengaged. Of course it must come apart Problem though, is with no inspection hole or other access; kinda hard to hit the nail on the head when you can't watch the hammer. Still curious as to what changed between first test and drive line install. __________________ Enjoy yer day. Tom Hate can't fix what it started.

02-10-2016, 08:52 PM	#30
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: clutch not disengaging I think you have a assemble problem. Clutch disk on backwards, fork on backwards. The screws on pressure plates are "NOT to be touched" The new PPs don't have any and come up about 5/8" inward because of the new way. foreign made. Time to remove it and see what you find.

02-10-2016, 10:08 PM	#31
Jack E/NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,173	Re: clutch not disengaging George/Maine>>>Clutch disk on backwards, fork on backwards>>> Thinkin' the same thing George when I posed the question. Jack E/NJ

02-13-2016, 08:22 PM	#32
fftoddster Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 158	Re: clutch not disengaging Well what a nightmare!!! Pilot bearing stuck to input shaft. What a chore to get apart. Had to pull on trans with a strap wench to rear end, and pry, wiggle, lots of cussing... finally got a bit of movement but would still not come apart. Finally got it about 11/2" apart. Then pulled oil pan (not easy in car) then I was finally able to loosen pressure plate bolts and it came apart. Last edited by fftoddster; 02-13-2016 at 08:29 PM.

02-13-2016, 08:49 PM	#34
Jack E/NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,173	Re: clutch not disengaging Bushing might not've been squarely seated? Jack E/MJ

02-13-2016, 08:54 PM	#35
petehoovie Senior Member Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 8,181	Re: clutch not disengaging Get one like this > __________________ The only thing nice about being imperfect is the joy it brings to others.... *"Silver rings, your butt! Them's washers!"* "We shot our way out of that town for a dollar's worth of steel holes!" - from 'The Wild Bunch' - 1969 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NReUd2_0u0

02-13-2016, 08:57 PM	#36
Jack E/NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,173	Re: clutch not disengaging Yep, that's what I use too. Still gotta be squarely seated. Jack E/NJ

02-13-2016, 09:22 PM	#37
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: clutch not disengaging Did the bushing come from Cornhusker? That setup requires a special bushing (which you are most likely already aware of). If it is the correct bushing and it was installed square in the crank, then I would be checking the T5 input shaft to make sure it does not have an issue that is hanging it up. There is a lot of debate on which is better, a bushing or a bearing. I lean toward the bearing.

02-13-2016, 09:37 PM	#38
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,969	Re: clutch not disengaging When you get it apart show us a photo of it. I couldn't see what you were trying to show. I didn't see a pilot bearing.

02-13-2016, 09:44 PM	#39
Jack E/NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,173	Re: clutch not disengaging His finger is pointing at the brass-colored bushing. Jack E/NJ

02-13-2016, 10:09 PM	#40
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,969	Re: clutch not disengaging It didn't look like it was on the input shaft and really large, maybe it is just my eyesight or the fact I am seeing it in 2 dimension.