2000 cc pinto engine in model a

[jackson32]

Is there any interest in putting 2000 cc pinto mustang motor in the Model A aby more I alweays wanted to do it and never got to it. The ones I saw were very nice cars to drive on the hiway and in traffic. What is going on here and now.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

There used to be several F/B participants that owned Pinto-powered Model-As. I must confess that I have only driven one, ...and quite frankly I was not that impressed. The 122 ci (2000cc) Pinto engine does make more horsepower than the 201 ci Model A/B engine, but not as much torque. Torque is really what makes an old car fun to drive IMHO. I say go for it if that is one of those things you have always wanted to do but I'm not so sure it is a swap that the performance outcome is worth the effort.

.

[1oldtimer]

Happy bday brent..........I have one in a '28 Tudor (bought it that way), it's pretty slow from a stop (A/T). I'm hopping it up a little so we'll see, at least it's good on gas .

[Jim Brierley]

Brent summed it up nicely! It has been done many times, usually for reliability but the stock engine is quite reliable as-is. Many people drive their A's across country with no problems. Most install an overdrive and make some engine changes to increase power, but are still very reliable.

[jackson32]

I never questioned the A's reliability but back a ways the A group from Chicago had quite a few with pinto motors and told me the pinto engine allowed them to use the A on the interstate gave them a higher cruseing speed in my mind the A engine with V8 flywheel , transnission and mitchel overdrive might beat that a bunch.

[John Schlegel]

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Cost for a good touring car is less with a pinto
Just went on a run from Fresno,Ca to Mariposa, Ca Models A with converted engines and none had a problems going up the grades.

[Charlie Stephens]

I put a 181 cubic inch Mercruiser marine (a bigger version of the Chevy II 4 cylinder) into a '32 roadster about 35 years ago. You find yourself an outcast to the restorers and the street rodders don't like you because the engine isn't big enough. The car runs great and I enjoy it. If anything I would recommend this 181 cubic inch engine as a better engine than the Pinto. It is bigger and looks more like a Model A with an overhead. Today there are much better machine shops to build reliable Model A engines and I would go that route. The nice thing (which I planned ahead for) is that you don't make any changes that cannot be reversed. I would not do it again today and there is a stock engine under the bench that is going back someday.

Charlie Stephens

[Gord. B by the bay]

30 roadster, B engine HP head all the rest stock crossed USA 8000 miles did not check the air in the tires trouble free and reliable
Gord. B by the bay

[jackson32]

I always thought I'd like a A with pinto engine or the chevy 2 engine (4 cylinder) with chevy engine you can use t5 tranny make a great driver out of it .

[FL&WVMIKE]

Here's an unique idea - How about a Chevy 350 ?
You get torque and speed.
MIKE

[400A-64]

16,000 miles around the world...no juice brakes...no overdrive, just 12 v and a second gas tank. works great!! ( I do love my Mitchell OD though!!)
Bruce Davis [email protected]

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by John Schlegel

Cost for a good touring car is less with a pinto
Just went on a run from Fresno,Ca to Mariposa, Ca Models A with converted engines and none had a problems going up the grades.

With all due respect, could you elaborate on this thought?

My thoughts are that a core Pinto engine ain't cheap anymore due to the Hobby stock 4 cylinder class at the dirt track using up all the cores. Then someone needs to factor in the $$ of either purchasing a kit (now obsolete) or fabricating the adapters, brackets, and items necessary for the install, plus do the installation. Time is money too.

Now, lets compare apples-to-apples again with the engine itself. The machine work for boring, honing, and decking are nearly the same since both are 4 cylinders. Buying a good quality camshaft for either engine should set you back about the same with either engine. To buy a well constructed bullet-proof 2000 cc engine from a reputable builder will set you back over $4k if it has good parts in it. The same applies for a Model-A engine.

Granted we could banter back and forth all afternoon nitpicking which item is cheaper but like was mentioned above, for the extra amount of work/expense installing the Pinto engine vs. building a nice Model-A engine, I think most will agree the Model-A engine will have the upper hand. This also applies during re-sale time.

Originally Posted by jackson32

I always thought I'd like a A with pinto engine or the chevy 2 engine (4 cylinder) with chevy engine you can use t5 tranny make a great driver out of it .

Sure, then you do what to the driveline to adapt the T-5? Now we are talking open driveline conversion (--or engineer a closed one) which affects brakes, etc. etc. Many can make a great argument that for many years they were great driver's without the need of a Pinto engine or a T-5 transmission. Sometimes re-inventing the wheel is not the most prudent thing to do IMO. Your car though so do as you wish....

.

[Pete]

I can think of a whole bunch of 4 bangers that would be FAR better choices than a
push rod Pinto engine. 100 hp out of a 2300 Pinto is easy and cheap to achieve not to mention all the twin cam 4 valve per cyl engines.

[1oldtimer]

Also before this post explodes .......

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=705051

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by 1oldtimer

Also before this post explodes .......

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=705051

Very interesting read, but a lot of pointing back to the Barn for information!

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by jackson32

I always thought I'd like a A with pinto engine or the chevy 2 engine (4 cylinder) with chevy engine you can use t5 tranny make a great driver out of it .

With the 4 cyl Chevy engine you can also use a standard speed shop adapter (same adapter as used for the Chevy V8) to a '32-'39 V8 trans and keep the original rear end to reduce the overall changes. I would still go with a properly built A or B engine if given the choice.

Charlie Stephens

[CarlG]

I have a real hard time justifying using anything "Cheby" in my Model A FORD

[Jack '29 Sport Coupe]

The last year the Pinto was made was 1980. You would have thought that by then all of the bugs would have been worked out. They weren't. My 1980 crapped out with only 59K miles on it due to undersized portals for the oil to flow through. At least that's what my mechanic said was the problem. Give me a stock Model A any day of the week. JMHO.

Jack

[1oldtimer]

Originally Posted by Jack '29 Sport Coupe

The last year the Pinto was made was 1980. You would have thought that by then all of the bugs would have been worked out. They weren't. My 1980 crapped out with only 59K miles on it due to undersized portals for the oil to flow through. At least that's what my mechanic said was the problem. Give me a stock Model A any day of the week. JMHO.

Jack

The 2.0 was only made for 3 or 4 years and was a german built motor, super strong race motor but a little harder to get parts for now.

[PetesPonies]

Jackson, I'm in the "slow" process of building a '31 Woodie pickup with a 2.0 Pinto. I'm mating it to a '36 trans and everything else will be "close" to original looking. If you need to bounce ideas or such, keep me in mind. I haven't figured it all out yet, but have a good start.

[Kurt in NJ]

Why stop a just a pinto engine, one day when I came to work this was waiting for me, looks like the whole driveline and subframe would fit under the rear of an A, could leave the stock engine up front for looks----the 6 screws to adjust the throttle could keep anyones needs to tinker met---I told the owner he would notice the change if I put the A engine in, that he would be impressed in the increased low end torque

[sturgis 39]

Originally Posted by jackson32

Is there any interest in putting 2000 cc pinto mustang motor in the Model A aby more I alweays wanted to do it and never got to it. The ones I saw were very nice cars to drive on the hiway and in traffic. What is going on here and now.

Buy a Shay Replica and you will have a Pinto engine.

[PetesPonies]

Buy a Shay Replica and you will have a Pinto engine.

I got the same useless information from people who think they are all knowing . . ignore them.

[Bud Camp]

Several people in the Fresno club have Pintos and swear by them. I have a 31 pick-up that I haven't finished yet and it has a 2000cc Pinto. I believe many have the overdrive and drive them like modern day cars.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by PetesPonies

I got the same useless information from people who think they are all knowing . . ignore them.

This site is dedicated to the restoration of the model A, what kind of answers do you expect to receive here?

Originally Posted by Ryan 05-09-2010, 09:59 AM
We will stay focused on restoration over here. Hot rods and customs are for the hamb.

[CHuDWah]

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Years ago, Hudson Wagon Works published a how-to booklet on installing a Pinto (i.e., Lima) engine in a Model A. IIRC, it even had templates for motor mounts, etc. Last I heard, the business had changed hands and was called just Wagon Works (213 SW Kline St, Ankeny, Iowa 50023-2639, 515-964-5085). If they're still around, it might be worth asking if they have a copy, or otherwise tracking one down.

More than you ever wanted to know about the Lima:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...ighlight=pinto

Also google for the Shay forum (yeah, yeah, I know) - more info on modding the Lima.

[GordonJ]

What I would like to see is Ford's new 1.0L Ecoboost engine adapted to a Model A. 100 HP with engine torque of 170Nm between 1,400rpm and 4,500rpm and an engine block small enough to fit on a piece of paper. Put a 5 or 6 speed behind it and I know your Model A would fly!

[Not George]

Originally Posted by FL&WVMIKE

Here's an unique idea - How about a Chevy 350 ?
You get torque and speed.
MIKE

I've got one of those and I think it's great, that's what hot rodders were doing when I was a kid. I get grief from EVERYBODY for that, and I do understand your sarcasm.
However I am keeping my 28' stock.

[Not George]

I saw these this week end, both guys were as happy as they could be with the them, although the guy with the Crager said it over heated in stop and go traffic.
He also said he's had it 57 years, so I guess he's learned to tolerate it!

[fordcragar]

Originally Posted by CHuDWah

Years ago, Hudson Wagon Works published a how-to booklet on installing a Pinto (i.e., Lima) engine in a Model A. IIRC, it even had templates for motor mounts, etc. Last I heard, the business had changed hands and was called just Wagon Works (213 SW Kline St, Ankeny, Iowa 50023-2639, 515-964-5085). If they're still around, it might be worth asking if they have a copy, or otherwise tracking one down.
.................................................. ..............................

When the business changed owners, the booklet wasn't passed on to the new owner.

[700rpm]

I wouldn't fuss around with some sissy Pinto putt-putt. All that work for an already discredited piece of automotive engineering? Nah. A 327 and 4:11 gears will get you off the line and down the road with no traffic worries from the rice burners. Might have to box the frame with the added torque. VW bucket seats drop right in and you can install some seat belts so you're safe at any speed. If you're not too large, a chop and channel would look sharp, with bobbed fenders. Candy apple red.

[Juggler]

Wagon Works kit







Does anyone know how much these were new?

Thanks

Juggs

[1oldtimer]

Juggs,
Would it be too much trouble to scan the booklet and email it to me?

[bobH]

The Pinto engine lived on, after the Pinto was gone. Last time I looked into this, I was thinking along the line of one of the turbo-charged versions, as used in SVO Mustang's and other Ford products, post Pinto. As I recall, I think the turbo-charged version has a lower CR, which I thought at the time would be more 'pump-friendly'. And, part of my plan was to ditch the turbo, FI, and all the electronics, and use a carb and 'old-style' ignition. Anyway, this was just a dream, I never did it, and today I've gotten over it and wouldn't do it. Just opinion....

[Keith True]

You can still find plenty of Pinto 2.3 engines,they are in the Rangers,they just have fuel injection and dual plug heads.I just retired one with 363,000 miles on it.I worked on the Pintos when they were new.They took a perfectly good engine,with a good track record in Europe,emissioned it to death,which included squeezing the oil passages down to prevent any excess oil burning.I saw the results of that dozens of times.On top of that the crude emission junk made the things rev way up when starting cold.It was like putting your foot halfway down when starting and holding it there.It's a wonder that so many of them lasted as long as they did.My sister bought a new 77 wagon for $1300. at the time of the exploding Pinto scare.About 1992 I aquired it and put in rings,bearings,cam,followers,and gaskets.No machine work was needed.My wife ran it for eight years,and I sold it.It is still going to this day.I saw it on a ramp truck and thought it was going for scrap.The driver told me it was headed to his shop for some brake lines.I think what saved that car was the distributer and carb I put on it.I worked at a salvage yard and we had dozens of those engines in industrial form.I used fuel and ignition from them and they ran great.I did have to run a hand choke,they were not equipped with automatics.

[gz]

Here's a Ch*&y II engine (153 cid/90hp) with an automatic installed in a 1928 phaeton.Although I would rather have the original "four banger" it works real well and is a tidy installation...

[qmdv]

In 1975 when I put a B motor 4 port overhead in my 29 rst pickup, there were a few pinto powered A's arround. Wes Cooper helped me with the project and he sarcasticly said he wanted to put a Crager B in a Pinto.

Tim

[fordcragar]

Has anyone put a 2.0l or 2.3l Pinto into a Model A using a V8 transmission?

[PetesPonies]

which trans do you mean? Do you mean a '32 up V8 trans? or a T-5 ??

[PetesPonies]

I'd love to have that booklet as well!!

[fordcragar]

Originally Posted by PetesPonies

which trans do you mean? Do you mean a '32 up V8 trans? or a T-5 ??

I've always thought of the 32-48 as the V8 transmission. If I'm wrong let me know. The T-5 is a T-5.