Thermostat

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois

I just placed an order for the book. Looks like it could be very interesting. Thanks. $7.99 plus $4 S&H on Amazon

Amazon has them with prices all over the board: starting at $0.01 all the way up to $40.00 + 3.99 for shipping. How thoes places sell them for a penny is unbelievable, but my wife has bought quite a few penny books on Amazon.

[Special Coupe Frank]

I forget where I bought my copy, 20 -odd years ago... might actually have been from a local book-seller... pretty sure the brand-new paperback was less than $15 at the time...

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting

Brent, you have gotten your self into a nonsensical defence mode. I would not run a T, A, or B., with out a 180, or 190 thermostat. The engine needs a normal operating Temp. to run efficiently and for proper vaporization of the fuel. Smoother running, better milage, less oil dilution. In Iowa, we need heaters in our cars if you drive, before the salt is added to the the road. With out a thermostat, you would get more heat out of a chicken. If you want the best, for your engine, its needed. Herm.

Herm,
Yes, 'commonsensical'...is not common, sometimes!
If Ford had not been so 'frugal', he would have put tstats as well as hydraulics as well as heaters as well as..well you get the idea. In my opinion, he made the volkswagen(workers car) of his time and a darn good one at that!
Did he, and his engineers, know about engine wear/tear due to sludge, etc ...what do you think! And, what was the oil change recommended frequency..and why so often! Geeze, he only charged pocket change(in todays money)so why build a duzyberg when not necessary then.
So when these antique cars come into our possession...for a mere pittance of a few K for a basket case...we know of what should be done if we want to make them safer/last longer, after putting in a lot more KKKs, i.e.- tstats, modern lubricants , 5 speeds, on/on/on!
Yup, you can lead a donk to knowledge...but 'stats are still your choice??.

[MrTube]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Herm,
Yes, 'commonsensical'...is not common, sometimes!
If Ford had not been so 'frugal', he would have put tstats as well as hydraulics as well as heaters as well as..well you get the idea. In my opinion, he made the volkswagen(workers car) of his time and a darn good one at that!
Did he, and his engineers, know about engine wear/tear due to sludge, etc ...what do you think! And, what was the oil change recommended frequency..and why so often! Geeze, he only charged pocket change(in todays money)so why build a duzyberg when not necessary then.
So when these antique cars come into our possession...for a mere pittance of a few K for a basket case...we know of what should be done if we want to make them safer/last longer, after putting in a lot more KKKs, i.e.- tstats, modern lubricants , 5 speeds, on/on/on!
Yup, you can lead a donk to knowledge...but 'stats are still your choice??.

Did he or his engineers know? Maybe not, otherwise why would slightly later designs include t-stats.

Did any 1920s cars have t-stats?

I also don't consider sliding in a t-stat that is 100% hidden and doesn't really change how the car works the same as putting a 5 speed in or hydraulic brakes. Both of these completely change the vehicle.

Using a t-stat and multi-weight detergent oil allow the engine to behave normal in cooler weather and last significantly longer yet you are still by all means driving an "A".

Thats my opinion anyway.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Herm,
Yes, 'commonsensical'...is not common, sometimes!
If Ford had not been so 'frugal', he would have put tstats as well as hydraulics as well as heaters as well as..well you get the idea. In my opinion, he made the volkswagen(workers car) of his time and a darn good one at that!
Did he, and his engineers, know about engine wear/tear due to sludge, etc ...what do you think! And, what was the oil change recommended frequency..and why so often! Geeze, he only charged pocket change(in todays money)so why build a duzyberg when not necessary then.
So when these antique cars come into our possession...for a mere pittance of a few K for a basket case...we know of what should be done if we want to make them safer/last longer, after putting in a lot more KKKs, i.e.- tstats, modern lubricants , 5 speeds, on/on/on!
Yup, you can lead a donk to knowledge...but 'stats are still your choice??.

So Mr. Hardtimes, what was your point, I missed it. Herm.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

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Originally Posted by MrTube

Did he or his engineers know? Maybe not, otherwise why would slightly later designs include t-stats.

Did any 1920s cars have t-stats?

I also don't consider sliding in a t-stat that is 100% hidden and doesn't really change how the car works the same as putting a 5 speed in or hydraulic brakes. Both of these completely change the vehicle.

Using a t-stat and multi-weight detergent oil allow the engine to behave normal in cooler weather and last significantly longer yet you are still by all means driving an "A".

Thats my opinion anyway.

What makes you think Mr. Tube, that sliding in a thermostat doesn't change how the car works, you have already started with the wrong premises, that a thermostat is a waste of your 5.00 bucks. It dosn't sound like you two boys have any experience in the thermostat department, only an opinion with the root source being the dollar bill. Herm.

[MrTube]

Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting

What makes you think Mr. Tube, that sliding in a thermostat doesn't change how the car works, you have already started with the wrong premises, that a thermostat is a wast of your 5.00 bucks. It dosn't sound like eather one of you have any experience in that department, only an opinion with the root source being the dollar bill. Herm.

Herm, I'm afraid you have me confused.

I am for thermostats and never said they were a waste of money?

My comment said the thermostat will allow the car to behave normal during cold weather which I believe to be a true statement. The car should behave the same on a 20F day or a 90F day.

Adding a downdraft carb, a 5 speed trans or even a super charger completely changes the way the engine behaves.

Perhaps I'm just explaining my self poorly.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by MrTube

Herm, I'm afraid you have me confused.

I am for thermostats and never said they were a waste of money?

My comment said the thermostat will allow the car to behave normal during cold weather which I believe to be a true statement. The car should behave the same on a 20F day or a 90F day.

Adding a downdraft carb, a 5 speed trans or even a super charger completely changes the way the engine behaves.

Perhaps I'm just explaining my self poorly.

Excuse me all to H@#$ Mr. Tube, I have got to get off that Hemp. Herm.

[Special Coupe Frank]

In the 1928 - 1931 era, I do not know of any cars / trucks that emplyed water-throttling thermostats... to the best of my knowledge, they were still using Sylphon- shutter thermostats that restricted airflow through the radiator.

This would include Cadillac, Packard, Lincoln, Duesenberg, Hudson, Pierce, and some others. Packard continued to use the shutter system through 1939 on some models.

Not quite as efficient for quick warm-up, but a step in the right direction.

The Pines Winterfront and Allen Shutterfront were two of the more popular aftermarket shutter-fronts in the '20s....

Have never seen one on an A though...

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting

So Mr. Hardtimes, what was your point, I missed it. Herm.

Herm,
"The point"....tstats are good to help ensure that a good engine runs better and should last longer....yes/no?!

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by Special Coupe Frank

...
The Pines Winterfront and Allen Shutterfront were two of the more popular aftermarket shutter-fronts in the '20s....

Have never seen one on an A though...

I have a Globe Winterfront that I intend on putting on my '31 PU. Gotta get some other stuff done first though. I'll have to post a picture after I get it on.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by AL in NY

...to keep the engine from developing local hot spots, a thermostat by-pass tube should be installed. I'm going to be running the vintage precision stat housing and routing a 3/8" SS tube from that housing to the engine hose inlet...

Do you have a picture of your installation?

[AL in NY]

CarlG, I haven't gotten my engine back together. I'll post a photo when I do. My original thought was to run a 3/8" SS line from the Vintage Precision thermostat housing to the water inlet hose fitting on the left side of the block. But after reading MikeK's post, I'm rethinking that. I may decide to route the bypass tube to an area behind #4 cylinder, either on the rear left corner of the water jacket or directly behind #4 cylinder on the back of the block. I have to see what conflicts I may have there with the throttle linkage. I'll post a picture when it's installed.

[steve s]

Another wrinkle: I read somewhere years ago that iron heads run better at 160 and aluminum heads run better at 180. Wish I could remember where I read that.

Steve

[Special Coupe Frank]

A historical note: the 160* F point was arrived at as the maximum temperature you could run the coolant at before you started boiling-off the alcohol-based antifreezing solution.

Once ethylene-glycol "permanent" antifreezes arrived (late 1920's - early 1930's), it was found that the thermostat could be stepped-up to 180* F.

Alcohol-based antifreezes stayed around through the '50s and perhaps into the 1960's, and for years you could usually buy a choice of thermostat temps depending on which type of anti-freeze your were using: 160 for Alcohol, 180-190 for Prestone, Xerex, etc.

[marc hildebrant]

When I had the Model A out about three weeks ago, I used a piece of cardboard to restrict the air into the radiator. The cardboard fit real nice between the stone gaurd and the radiator.

The car ran around 160 F in city type driving...the engine ran nice with the outside temp around 20 F.

Marc

[Houston Rodder]

I think this may be a problem for you, Yankees.

[1931 flamingo]

marc: that cardboard is not going to work in july. JMO
Paul in CT

[Seth Swoboda]

Brent, I believe that most Model A owners/drivers do not know the proper operation of the GAV and spark retard/advance. I will admit that I very rarely adjust the GAV. Could you explain to me how to use the spark retard/advance and how to adjust the GAV while driving the Model A? I know the start up procedure but when I am on the road I only ever adjust the spark advance.

[HoarseWhisperer]

Originally Posted by Seth Swoboda

Brent, I believe that most Model A owners/drivers do not know the proper operation of the GAV and spark retard/advance. I will admit that I very rarely adjust the GAV. Could you explain to me how to use the spark retard/advance and how to adjust the GAV while driving the Model A? I know the start up procedure but when I am on the road I only ever adjust the spark advance.

Seth, "proper operation" of the GAV and spark is covered in the standard Model A Ford operator's manual.

I'm thinking most Model A owners carry this manual, no?