The Ford Barn

Ken Arms · 02-24-2011, 01:16 PM

Well i guess im a dummy! I just assembled my 34 transmission with some fresh parts but I cant for the life of me see where the cork type rear oil seal goes! There is a machined groove in the piece that the rear motor mount slides onto but it looks like its just there to clear the bearing . im totally confused and loosing sleep! Any help would be wonderful! I do have a chassis parts book if that would help anyone else with one as a reference.

Bruce Lancaster · 02-24-2011, 01:30 PM

Are you looking at a long, maybe a foot or so, piece of cork? If so it goes in the groove in the U-joint clamshell cover.

David J · 02-24-2011, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Arms

Well i guess im a dummy! I just assembled my 34 transmission with some fresh parts but I cant for the life of me see where the cork type rear oil seal goes! There is a machined groove in the piece that the rear motor mount slides onto but it looks like its just there to clear the bearing . im totally confused and loosing sleep! Any help would be wonderful! I do have a chassis parts book if that would help anyone else with one as a reference.

Are you sure your not looking at pt # B-4516 ? This was cork and goes in the groove in the rear of B-4520 - this is the tourque tube bell .

David J

CT AV8 · 02-24-2011, 02:04 PM

The cork that David refers to is in two pieces...upper and lower...that press into the groove of the torque tube bell. It's good to soak them in oil before pressing in. There is also a paper gasket that goes between the bell and machined surface of transmission.

Bruce Lancaster · 02-24-2011, 04:12 PM

The "felt, UJ housing cap" is now sold in two pieces! That must mean we no longer have enough big cork trees to supply as original...

Bassman/NZ · 02-24-2011, 04:17 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

The "felt, UJ housing cap" is now sold in two pieces! That must mean we no longer have enough big cork trees to supply as original...

Put a cork in it bruce!

Sorry, couldn't resist!

CT AV8 · 02-24-2011, 04:18 PM

Sorry. I stand corrected. It is felt. Maybe the tall felt trees are gone too. Actually, I can't see how you could install unless it's in two pieces anyway.

Bruce Lancaster · 02-24-2011, 04:43 PM

That part was once felt...still available through Nacewicz, actually goes in without a wrestling match. At some point Ford switched to cork, which does not cooperate willingly with what has to become a compound curvature. I think most current or cork. All versions useta was in one piece...2 almost certainly helps get it in place, but gives two joints to try to get tight. Again, the felt would compress together at the gap much more willingly.
Maybe the modern rubber piece is the way to go...no need to shave a goat for the material!

Ken Arms · 02-24-2011, 05:28 PM

Well if that cork seal that came with gasket kit goes into groove of b-4520 then what stops the tranny oil from seeping through the rear bearing and into the torque tube ? Ken

David J · 02-24-2011, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Arms

Well if that cork seal that came with gasket kit goes into groove of b-4520 then what stops the tranny oil from seeping through the rear bearing and into the torque tube ? Ken

B-4245 . It is behind the front driveshaft bearing and tranny fluid keeps all this stuff lubricated . The "felt " or B-4516 is called " cork " in the 3-34 parts book .

David J

Floyd · 02-24-2011, 05:54 PM

You need the one piece cork if you are working on a real 32, which has a one piece cap. I just did a 32 and for some reason the one piece cork went right into the groove with no problems. Perfect fit, perfect length. Gasket kit from Best gaskets.
As to the question about oil flow, The design of the trans and torque tube is such that some oil will seep between the rear oil baffle and the rear bearing of the trans and into the U-joint area to lube the U-joint. Also the torque tube "seal" will allow some oil to flow all the way up the tube. The reason for the cork (felt) gasket is the simlple fact that the U-joint area is a wet area. The cork is there to seal the wet U-joint area from the outside.There are no dry regions in a closed driveline. Trying to make one defeats the purpose of the original design.
Just an opinion
Floyd

CT AV8 · 02-24-2011, 05:59 PM

The big round gasket with 6 holes sets in place on back of transmission. Then the 6 bolt rear bearing retainer bolts in place. This covers the entire rear bearing and leaves only the spline projecting. When you slip the u-joint onto the output shaft and bolt in place, this effectively seals the transmission case.
The felt/cork gasket we are talking about in the clam fitting is to keep the ujoint grease from discharging. Transmission lube should never get back this far. If car has an extreme forward rake, you can get rear axle lube running forward thru torque tube into this area, but there are baffles to prevent that.

Ken Arms · 02-24-2011, 06:00 PM

Thanks Dave, I just talked with Lloyd out in CA, He said the same thing, some oil will seep through but the baffle foward of rear bearing is there to sling it away somewhat under foward motion. Thanks everyone, I will sleep better tonight! I love old fords and this Barn!

JM 35 Sedan · 02-24-2011, 06:25 PM

Someone is selling a rubber piece that replaces the cork or felt. It looks like a piece of rubber vacuum hose and maybe it is. This has been reported to work very well. I may be able to find the source and add that info later. I believe someone is also selling this piece on Epay.

Kurt in NJ · 02-25-2011, 12:14 AM

I used a pipe rubber in my A the last time I had it apart (25+years ago)---i don't remember what size, I was doing mechanical work for a construction company and just picked it from a box of many. --it was just a large "O" ring

Ed Solari · 02-27-2011, 10:34 AM

To ken Arms
If you look at the bell housing that is a socket for the toque tube ball (that is captured on the torque)the cork is at the base. The problem is the oil colors it and it blends with the oil on adjacent metal ... so you have to probe and dig to see it.

BTW THE OIL for the area inside the ball and socket can't be too thin due to leaks. In an earlier thrend many said to use Deere cornhead grease BUT some discussions said the Deere stuff was viscosity 0 and some said 00 and to use 00. Cornhead is only 0 urea based. I found Chevron makes a grease in both 0 and 00 (lithium based) I but both in a jar and the 0 and corn head just "stood there" the 00 actually slumped. The claim is the cornhead will flow with the heat/motion of the shaft and universals ... not sure about the Chevron. 0 ... I am looking to use 00 to insure the universal gets max lube...any thoughts???

David J · 03-04-2011, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David J

B-4245 . It is behind the front driveshaft bearing and tranny fluid keeps all this stuff lubricated . The "felt " or B-4516 is called " cork " in the 3-34 parts book .

David J

This came up again so I'm bringing this back up .

Bruce Lancaster · 03-04-2011, 04:10 PM

So the change was in '33...
Nacewicz still has them in felt, http://fordscript.com/ford_bolts/cat...0versionv8.pdf on p. 18, much easier to get it to conform to the groove and stay there.

02-24-2011, 01:16 PM	#1
Ken Arms Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Essex Vermont Posts: 599	rear transmission oil seal?? Well i guess im a dummy! I just assembled my 34 transmission with some fresh parts but I cant for the life of me see where the cork type rear oil seal goes! There is a machined groove in the piece that the rear motor mount slides onto but it looks like its just there to clear the bearing . im totally confused and loosing sleep! Any help would be wonderful! I do have a chassis parts book if that would help anyone else with one as a reference.

02-24-2011, 01:30 PM	#2
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: rear transmission oil seal?? Are you looking at a long, maybe a foot or so, piece of cork? If so it goes in the groove in the U-joint clamshell cover.

02-24-2011, 04:12 PM	#5
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: rear transmission oil seal?? The "felt, UJ housing cap" is now sold in two pieces! That must mean we no longer have enough big cork trees to supply as original...

02-24-2011, 04:18 PM	#7
CT AV8 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Cos Cob, CT Posts: 295	Re: rear transmission oil seal?? Sorry. I stand corrected. It is felt. Maybe the tall felt trees are gone too. Actually, I can't see how you could install unless it's in two pieces anyway.

02-24-2011, 04:43 PM	#8
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: rear transmission oil seal?? That part was once felt...still available through Nacewicz, actually goes in without a wrestling match. At some point Ford switched to cork, which does not cooperate willingly with what has to become a compound curvature. I think most current or cork. All versions useta was in one piece...2 almost certainly helps get it in place, but gives two joints to try to get tight. Again, the felt would compress together at the gap much more willingly. Maybe the modern rubber piece is the way to go...no need to shave a goat for the material!

02-24-2011, 05:28 PM	#9
Ken Arms Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Essex Vermont Posts: 599	Re: rear transmission oil seal?? Well if that cork seal that came with gasket kit goes into groove of b-4520 then what stops the tranny oil from seeping through the rear bearing and into the torque tube ? Ken

02-24-2011, 05:54 PM	#11
Floyd Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 469	Re: rear transmission oil seal?? You need the one piece cork if you are working on a real 32, which has a one piece cap. I just did a 32 and for some reason the one piece cork went right into the groove with no problems. Perfect fit, perfect length. Gasket kit from Best gaskets. As to the question about oil flow, The design of the trans and torque tube is such that some oil will seep between the rear oil baffle and the rear bearing of the trans and into the U-joint area to lube the U-joint. Also the torque tube "seal" will allow some oil to flow all the way up the tube. The reason for the cork (felt) gasket is the simlple fact that the U-joint area is a wet area. The cork is there to seal the wet U-joint area from the outside.There are no dry regions in a closed driveline. Trying to make one defeats the purpose of the original design. Just an opinion Floyd

02-24-2011, 05:59 PM	#12
CT AV8 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Cos Cob, CT Posts: 295	Re: rear transmission oil seal?? The big round gasket with 6 holes sets in place on back of transmission. Then the 6 bolt rear bearing retainer bolts in place. This covers the entire rear bearing and leaves only the spline projecting. When you slip the u-joint onto the output shaft and bolt in place, this effectively seals the transmission case. The felt/cork gasket we are talking about in the clam fitting is to keep the ujoint grease from discharging. Transmission lube should never get back this far. If car has an extreme forward rake, you can get rear axle lube running forward thru torque tube into this area, but there are baffles to prevent that.

02-24-2011, 06:00 PM	#13
Ken Arms Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Essex Vermont Posts: 599	Re: rear transmission oil seal?? Thanks Dave, I just talked with Lloyd out in CA, He said the same thing, some oil will seep through but the baffle foward of rear bearing is there to sling it away somewhat under foward motion. Thanks everyone, I will sleep better tonight! I love old fords and this Barn!

02-24-2011, 06:25 PM	#14
JM 35 Sedan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland Posts: 10,859	Re: rear transmission oil seal?? Someone is selling a rubber piece that replaces the cork or felt. It looks like a piece of rubber vacuum hose and maybe it is. This has been reported to work very well. I may be able to find the source and add that info later. I believe someone is also selling this piece on Epay. __________________ *John* *"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein*

02-25-2011, 12:14 AM	#15
Kurt in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: on the Littlefield Posts: 6,159	Re: rear transmission oil seal?? I used a pipe rubber in my A the last time I had it apart (25+years ago)---i don't remember what size, I was doing mechanical work for a construction company and just picked it from a box of many. --it was just a large "O" ring

02-27-2011, 10:34 AM	#16
Ed Solari Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 217	Re: rear transmission oil seal?? To ken Arms If you look at the bell housing that is a socket for the toque tube ball (that is captured on the torque)the cork is at the base. The problem is the oil colors it and it blends with the oil on adjacent metal ... so you have to probe and dig to see it. BTW THE OIL for the area inside the ball and socket can't be too thin due to leaks. In an earlier thrend many said to use Deere cornhead grease BUT some discussions said the Deere stuff was viscosity 0 and some said 00 and to use 00. Cornhead is only 0 urea based. I found Chevron makes a grease in both 0 and 00 (lithium based) I but both in a jar and the 0 and corn head just "stood there" the 00 actually slumped. The claim is the cornhead will flow with the heat/motion of the shaft and universals ... not sure about the Chevron. 0 ... I am looking to use 00 to insure the universal gets max lube...any thoughts???

03-04-2011, 04:10 PM	#18
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: rear transmission oil seal?? So the change was in '33... Nacewicz still has them in felt, http://fordscript.com/ford_bolts/cat...0versionv8.pdf on p. 18, much easier to get it to conform to the groove and stay there.