Ongoing indicator problem

[DennisR]

Bear in mind before stripping down ready for a respray all were working fine. I reassembled, replaced the flasher unit with a new electronic one, tested the indicators with just the master switch on, all works good, start the engine and the indicators either stop flashing or flicker/flash rapidly. I`ve checked the earths` as suggested, disconnected the led brake light, had a number of friends give me input but to no avail, at a total loss.
6v system, new alternator. The wiring was new at the start of the refurb last year.
If there was an earth problem surely it would affect the indicators whether the engine was running or not.
What could be causing the indicators to stop working ok when the engine is running !!!
Havn`t got a lot of hair, but would like to keep it

[Mike V. Florida]

Where are you getting power from to power the indicators? Power hooked up to the wrong side of the coil can do what you are seeing.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=207684

[DennisR]

Power from junction box, tried both sides. Tried taking power direct from battery terminal. Tried removing the signal stat from the steering column and letting it hang. No matter what I do same result.

[katy]

Try running a temporary ground to the new alternator.

[Benson]

1. Try removing fan belt and starting engine for a short time so it does not overheat ... maybe there is a bad diode in alternator that is making AC current and the Electronic flasher does not like the AC ripple.

2. Did the problem start with the installation of Alternator? Maybe a bad ground to alternator as mentioned above. Powder coat preventing proper ground and arcing is occurring.

[DennisR]

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Katy-I`ll give that a go tomorrow, thanks.
Benson-I`ll also try that tomorrow, thanks, and no it was working fine prior to removing all the lights etc. for the repaint.

[George Miller]

I think you do not have enough load on the flashers. You could try putting temporary bulb in line with other bulbs. Not sure what you are using, but in the old days to little load would make them flash to fast. The reason it does not do it with the engine off is that you have less volts than when it is running.

[Chris H]

Hi Dennis,

Did you insure that you have a good ground (earth) on the Signal Stat itself? It must be well grounded to the steering column to operate properly. Try running a temporary ground lead between the signal stat and a good ground on the chassis or battery.

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by George Miller

I think you do not have enough load on the flashers. You could try putting temporary bulb in line with other bulbs. Not sure what you are using, but in the old days to little load would make them flash to fast. The reason it does not do it with the engine off is that you have less volts than when it is running.

Yea my chevette blinks slower when the engine is off than when its running. Usually the flashers are either a 2 bulb system or 4 bulb so you may have the wrong one or a faulty one. I like to snag OEM ones out of junkyard vehicles - hardly ever get a bad one VS cheapo ones from auto parts stores.

OR i would say something is flakey with the alternator

[DennisR]

Benson- tried removing fanbelt-no change.
Katy- tried that-no change.
George-tried that-that didn`t work.
Chris- hi, interesting, had already checked that for earth, decided to double check so removed it from column, the flashers worked the same as before minus the warning light without being grounded ! that`s as far as I got, had to take time out.
I did check with the supplier who was most helpful but could only suggest "1.Something in your indicator circuit is wired negative earth which becomes active when your engine is running. This will send a confused signal to the relay and stop it working. Being 100% polarity sensitive the electronic relay will have an issue with this. Thermal relays do not have an issue so it would not have shown up before."

[DaWizard]

Hey Dennis, maybe I can shed a bit of light onto this if you will answer a couple questions.

1. Since you kept the original 6v Positive ground, you will need a 6v flasher.
2. The new electronic flasher is 12v since I can't seem to find a 6v eFlasher.
3. Since you have a 12v negative ground eFlasher, you ~might~ try connecting the external wire from the flasher to one of the terminals in the J box.
4. If the external wire is connected to the either side of the junction box, this is correct.

Now, to give you a reason the flasher slows down when the motor is running, well, since it is 12v and while not running you can have a potential of up to 8v, the flasher will work well at 8v, but when you start the motor, the generator/alternator will clamp the voltage down to 6v, now while the flasher and lights will work at 6v, the eFlasher will also, but at a lessor speed. The eFlasher really wants to see 8v+ to work properly

You might want to go back to the 6v flasher, a 535 should work.

[DennisR]

DAWizard- thanks for your input- I am on 6v + earth, my new flasher unit is an electronic 6v + earth, http://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/ ,there is an external earth wire which I`ve grounded.

[Del in NE Ohio]

I am assuming you are using LED indicators, hence the use of an electronic flasher. I had the same issue and could only resolve it by using in-line resistors for the indicator circuits and a conventional flasher. Mine worked fine until I started the engine. My theory is that the Model A ignition creates enough RFI (radio frequency interference) to make the electronic flasher go haywire. Probably no RF shielding built into flasher.

[DaWizard]

Originally Posted by Del in NE Ohio

I am assuming you are using LED indicators, hence the use of an electronic flasher. I had the same issue and could only resolve it by using in-line resistors for the indicator circuits and a conventional flasher. Mine worked fine until I started the engine. My theory is that the Model A ignition creates enough RFI (radio frequency interference) to make the electronic flasher go haywire. Probably no RF shielding built into flasher.

Ya know, I was a communication technician for some 17 years and ran into a LOT of RFI and there may be some merit to this and the solution was to ground the hell out of everything. In this case IF you have a braided sleave like the ground strap, wrap it around the flasher and ground that too.

In this case however, with the serious lack of RFI shielding, I would go back to the 535 flasher unit which, if it can flash the small light in the turn signal switch, should be very capable of flashing the LEDs .

[eagle]

The original charge system on an A is very noisy. Use a DC noise filter in front of the flasher or else use a thermal flasher. If using LED lights use a load resistor. Thermal flasher is your best and simplest bet. You state that you are using a new alternator, put an AC volmeter on the output and check for ripple. Could have a bad diode causing the noisy power condition.

[Del in NE Ohio]

Eagle is right. LED's alone will not present enough resistance in the circuit to trip a thermal flasher. Got to add resistance to both Lt and Rt indicator circuits

[DennisR]

New 535 unit - sorted. Many thanks to all who gave input. As was mentioned the rfi caused the electronic unit to go haywire, I should have clicked when my neighbour said " I know when you start the car, we lose our tv picture". Not sure if it`s "you`re never to old to learn" or " you`re to old to be told", that`s another box ticked on my check list.