The Ford Barn

Alaska Jim · 11-04-2021, 07:53 PM

I have 2 water pump rebuild kits , and the box's are marked A8C in marker, and the box has a printed " BB 458" on it . as near as I can tell they are for the 49-53 style pumps. My question is , can these pump rebuild kits be used in the earlier pumps? there are no directions with the rebuild kits , and I have some earlier pumps that I would like to use these in if possible. any information , tips or guidance would be appreciated. Thank you, Jim Hackenberger, Palmer, AK

Brian · 11-04-2021, 11:47 PM

No Jim, the 49 and later pumps are a complete re-design of the earlier pumps.

rotorwrench · 11-05-2021, 12:16 PM

Some earlier 1949 designs were part bearing and part bushing. The pumps from 1937 through 1948 were all one bushing but some of the later reproductions have a double row bearing/shaft assembly. The seals may be a bit different on those due to the way the impeller is designed. This link from Carpenter's has an exploded view of the late type pumps for early V8s. https://www.dennis-carpenter.com/tru...SABEgL1F_D_BwE

Those BB 458 kits are for the 8BA family of engines with the exception of the 1949 Mercury pumps.

Alaska Jim · 11-05-2021, 09:44 PM

rotowrench, what is different about the 49 Merc. pumps. I knew that the earlier pumps used bushings instead of bearings, but was wondering if the earlier pump housings would take the later kits. Thanks, --- Jim

Brian · 11-05-2021, 10:56 PM

Jim, Sorry, I'm not rotowrench, but, I've already told you there is NO interchangeability betwix early and later pumps. Everything is different, the new, redesigned impellors take a different seal entirely, the bearing/shaft arrangement is different....Even the gasket to the block is different.

Alaska Jim · 11-06-2021, 02:02 AM

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Thank you Brian, I did read your message. I was mostly interested in what rotowrench had to say about the 49Merc. pumps vs the 50-51 Merc Pumps, as I have a 51 Merc. I also was not clear as whether you meant that the design of the early Ford pumps was because of the design of the pump . I know there are many differences, I just did not know if you took a bare casting , if it was possible to install the later stuff . you answered my question. Thank you.

rotorwrench · 11-06-2021, 11:15 AM

The 1949 Mercury pump was a one year only deal. First off it had the odd engine mount set up and then there was the difference in bearings. It has a ball bearing on the forward part of the impeller shaft and a bushing on the rear portion. An oiler cap was placed on the upper pump area to be able to service the bushing with oil on a regular basis. I figure this design was made in a time when all of the Ford V8 engines still used a bushing type pump at the beginning of WWII while the Mercury design was being completed. The pumps changed for 1950 to be able to use the same bearing set up that the 8BA pumps used. The 0CM pump was used through the 1951 model year but these pumps required the engine mount spacer to make up for the casting design which was carried over from the 8CM pumps. This allowed the large engine mount biscuits to be used. The holes on the frame were deleted and a larger round hole was opened up for the large type mounts as well. The 1949 mounts had two 5/8" studs on the bottom to mount to the frame with two nuts. The 50 & 51 mounts with the one big shoulder bolt through the large type biscuits above & below the frame.

Alaska Jim · 11-06-2021, 02:59 PM

Rotorwrench, Thank you for the detailed explanation on the differences in the Mercury water pumps. I have a '51 Sport sedan. and am only familiar with the pumps on it there are very few 49-51 Mercury's around here, and as far as I know my car is the only one that has not been changed to some type of small block Ford or Chevy, so I have never seen the differences in person. I gather up all the flathead stuff I can find , when I find it at reasonable prices. I have a fair collection of loose water pumps of all types, and am not sure what the application of all of them are, which is what prompted me to start this thread. just trying to save as much stuff as I can with what I have. Thank you for all your information

11-04-2021, 07:53 PM	#1
Alaska Jim Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Palmer, Alaska Posts: 1,575	Water pumps I have 2 water pump rebuild kits , and the box's are marked A8C in marker, and the box has a printed " BB 458" on it . as near as I can tell they are for the 49-53 style pumps. My question is , can these pump rebuild kits be used in the earlier pumps? there are no directions with the rebuild kits , and I have some earlier pumps that I would like to use these in if possible. any information , tips or guidance would be appreciated. Thank you, Jim Hackenberger, Palmer, AK

11-04-2021, 11:47 PM	#2
Brian Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Masterton, New Zealand Posts: 3,835	Re: Water pumps No Jim, the 49 and later pumps are a complete re-design of the earlier pumps. __________________ Unfortunately, two half wits don't make a whole wit!

11-05-2021, 12:16 PM	#3
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: Water pumps Some earlier 1949 designs were part bearing and part bushing. The pumps from 1937 through 1948 were all one bushing but some of the later reproductions have a double row bearing/shaft assembly. The seals may be a bit different on those due to the way the impeller is designed. This link from Carpenter's has an exploded view of the late type pumps for early V8s. https://www.dennis-carpenter.com/tru...SABEgL1F_D_BwE Those BB 458 kits are for the 8BA family of engines with the exception of the 1949 Mercury pumps.

11-05-2021, 09:44 PM	#4
Alaska Jim Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Palmer, Alaska Posts: 1,575	Re: Water pumps rotowrench, what is different about the 49 Merc. pumps. I knew that the earlier pumps used bushings instead of bearings, but was wondering if the earlier pump housings would take the later kits. Thanks, --- Jim

11-05-2021, 10:56 PM	#5
Brian Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Masterton, New Zealand Posts: 3,835	Re: Water pumps Jim, Sorry, I'm not rotowrench, but, I've already told you there is NO interchangeability betwix early and later pumps. Everything is different, the new, redesigned impellors take a different seal entirely, the bearing/shaft arrangement is different....Even the gasket to the block is different. __________________ Unfortunately, two half wits don't make a whole wit!

11-06-2021, 02:02 AM	#6
Alaska Jim Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Palmer, Alaska Posts: 1,575	Re: Water pumps Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Thank you Brian, I did read your message. I was mostly interested in what rotowrench had to say about the 49Merc. pumps vs the 50-51 Merc Pumps, as I have a 51 Merc. I also was not clear as whether you meant that the design of the early Ford pumps was because of the design of the pump . I know there are many differences, I just did not know if you took a bare casting , if it was possible to install the later stuff . you answered my question. Thank you.

11-06-2021, 11:15 AM	#7
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: Water pumps The 1949 Mercury pump was a one year only deal. First off it had the odd engine mount set up and then there was the difference in bearings. It has a ball bearing on the forward part of the impeller shaft and a bushing on the rear portion. An oiler cap was placed on the upper pump area to be able to service the bushing with oil on a regular basis. I figure this design was made in a time when all of the Ford V8 engines still used a bushing type pump at the beginning of WWII while the Mercury design was being completed. The pumps changed for 1950 to be able to use the same bearing set up that the 8BA pumps used. The 0CM pump was used through the 1951 model year but these pumps required the engine mount spacer to make up for the casting design which was carried over from the 8CM pumps. This allowed the large engine mount biscuits to be used. The holes on the frame were deleted and a larger round hole was opened up for the large type mounts as well. The 1949 mounts had two 5/8" studs on the bottom to mount to the frame with two nuts. The 50 & 51 mounts with the one big shoulder bolt through the large type biscuits above & below the frame. Last edited by rotorwrench; 11-06-2021 at 11:30 AM.

11-06-2021, 02:59 PM	#8
Alaska Jim Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Palmer, Alaska Posts: 1,575	Re: Water pumps Rotorwrench, Thank you for the detailed explanation on the differences in the Mercury water pumps. I have a '51 Sport sedan. and am only familiar with the pumps on it there are very few 49-51 Mercury's around here, and as far as I know my car is the only one that has not been changed to some type of small block Ford or Chevy, so I have never seen the differences in person. I gather up all the flathead stuff I can find , when I find it at reasonable prices. I have a fair collection of loose water pumps of all types, and am not sure what the application of all of them are, which is what prompted me to start this thread. just trying to save as much stuff as I can with what I have. Thank you for all your information