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Old 10-18-2020, 10:18 AM   #1
Old Redneck
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Default Heater no hot air from Heater?

I ordered a high out put water pump with spacer from Hill's. When it came I open the box and look at the water pump. I got a 180 degree thermostat. I did not pay any attention to the spacer. I remove the old water pump and thermostat 160 and installed the 180. Here they sent me the same spacer as what was with the old water pump. Not the A-432 that Chris Ames design. I had to put the T-Bird back together because my Grand Daughter's are coming Tuesday and they will want to drive the T-Bird for sure.Will call Hill's Monday about this mistake. NOW still no heat from the heater??? Not sure what to do next. Any of you had this problem?
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Old 10-18-2020, 10:39 AM   #2
55blacktie
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Default Re: Heater no hot air from Heater?

I don't think your water pump or spacer have anything to do with your heater not producing heat. Did you check the heater control valve/heater blower?

Is Hill's advertising Chris's spacer? I thought it was only available directly from Chris; that's how I bought mine.
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Old 10-18-2020, 10:58 AM   #3
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Default Re: Heater no hot air from Heater?

I am not upset with Hill's just needs to solve the problem. I know the wattle pump has nothing to do with the heater. Down the road I am installing Air Conditioning. This is the first part to get ready. So you say I half to get the correct spacer I half to contact Chris?
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Old 10-18-2020, 12:02 PM   #4
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Default Re: Heater no hot air from Heater?

Ken
Paragon Technology
Chris Ames
Christopherames@g.com
602-722-0749
Dave
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Old 10-18-2020, 12:08 PM   #5
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Default Re: Heater no hot air from Heater?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 55blacktie View Post
. . . Is Hill's advertising Chris's spacer? I thought it was only available directly from Chris; that's how I bought mine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Redneck View Post
. . . So you say I half to get the correct spacer I half to contact Chris?
Pretty sure you can only buy them direct from Chris at his website... https://thunderbird.us/
message a request from the website, receive an invoice, then enclose a check, snail mail,
no online sales or credit cards.


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Old 10-18-2020, 12:51 PM   #6
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Default Re: Heater no hot air from Heater?

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CSPIDY schooled me about the spacer. I did not know you had to order it from Criss. I will do that. CSPIDY came here to help me install the High Output Waterpump. He was a big help. I think I am going to order the Air Conditioning. After the Grand-Daughters go home will start the process. I got the new gas tank and electric fuel pump to install. Like to try a pair of Glass packs Mufflers but don't want to make to loud just deep sound. Not sure about doing that. Any of you got Glass Pack Mufflers on your T-Bird?
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Old 10-18-2020, 01:22 PM   #7
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Default Re: Heater no hot air from Heater?

Chris is a good guy, who will talk to you at length, if you call/email.

Smithys or Porter mufflers if you want old-school sound.
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Old 10-18-2020, 05:52 PM   #8
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Default Re: Heater no hot air from Heater?

Ok so for the heater, I would say first check to see if the temperature control cable from the heater control cluster didn't fall off the clamp on the heater register housing under the dash. Possibly the bracket that holds the cable clamp broke off the heat register housing.
If that is okay and the end of the cable IS ENGAGED with the temperature control valve, you should be able to push the control knob to "High", which will allow water from the engine to enter the valve.
The water flows thru the valve only if you have the temp control knob pushed over to allow heat. You can throttle the knob down half way to decrease the amount of water the valve will allow to come in (thus reducing the amount of heat).
From the valve, the water comes out the outlet hose and into the heater core, then back out the heater core and returns to engine.
Make sure your heater hose connections are going to the right place. There should be an excellent illustration in your SHOP MANUAL.
While you are at it, check your right-air-heat-defrost cable to see if it is properly connected. Look under the dash behind the heat control cluster to see if the cable clamps are loose or disconnected.
Also check to make sure somebody does NOT have an inline heater hose bypass valve shutoff in the line going from engine to control valve. If it is shut off, turn it on. Some people will do this because the heater control valve has a rubber washer inside that stops the water when the heater control is off, but when it gets old, that rubber washer deteriorates and allows hot water in during summertime. The bypass valve reroutes the water back to the engine before the water can get to the heater core via the control valve.
So, in summary:
1) heater control cables inoperative by various means
2) heater hoses not routed to the proper locations.
3) aftermarket bypass valve shut off.
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Old 10-19-2020, 04:25 AM   #9
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Default Re: Heater no hot air from Heater?

I replaced my entire exhaust system last winter,
I installed the original style that CASCO sells.
Mufflers were included.
Has a nice deep tone to it,
not to loud but you can definitely hear it.
I left The resonators off.
I did add the stainless heat shields that help cut down the heat under the floor
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Old 10-19-2020, 11:09 AM   #10
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Default Re: Heater no hot air from Heater?

Did leaving the resonators off make it louder? If so, how much louder?
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Old 10-19-2020, 11:45 AM   #11
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Default Re: Heater no hot air from Heater?

I got no vacuum at my water control valve? On the double action fuel pump am I to have vacuum at both ports one going to carb other going to wipers and control valve right?
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Old 10-19-2020, 12:07 PM   #12
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Default Re: Heater no hot air from Heater?

I found My vacuum gauge and on the double action fuel pump has two vacuum ports left and right the one on the left the gauge goes real high when you first start it up then falls off all the way back. Now if you gas the car pretty hard the vacuum goes back up thens fall off is that normal?
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Old 10-19-2020, 12:16 PM   #13
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Default Re: Heater no hot air from Heater?

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Originally Posted by Old Redneck View Post
I got no vacuum at my water control valve? On the double action fuel pump am I to have vacuum at both ports one going to carb other going to wipers and control valve right?

I found My vacuum gauge and on the double action fuel pump has two vacuum ports left and right the one on the left the gauge goes real high when you first start it up then falls off all the way back. Now if you gas the car pretty hard the vacuum goes back up thens fall off is that normal?
The top half of the fuel pump is not so much a pump as a vacuum 'booster' for the windshield wipers. One side connects to manifold vacuum, the vacuum is boosted at the other fitting which connects to a line thru the firewall to power the wiper motor and heater controls. The intended purpose is to keep the wipers working when accelerating or going uphill, and the manifold vacuum alone wouldn't be enough.
Photo 3, a similar example, the vacuum lines on a '55.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg fuel pump wiper fitting, copy.jpg (60.6 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg wiper vac hoses c.jpg (79.2 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg '55 Bird vacuum lines copy.jpg (111.3 KB, 12 views)

Last edited by dmsfrr; 10-19-2020 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 10-19-2020, 04:28 PM   #14
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Default Re: Heater no hot air from Heater?

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Did leaving the resonators off make it louder? If so, how much louder?
Not louder but changed the pitch, seams lower than with them
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Old 10-19-2020, 04:45 PM   #15
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Default Re: Heater no hot air from Heater?

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I got no vacuum at my water control valve? On the double action fuel pump am I to have vacuum at both ports one going to carb other going to wipers and control valve right?
Looks like you may have a problem under the dash as 55Dave suggests
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Old 10-19-2020, 05:29 PM   #16
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Default Re: Heater no hot air from Heater?

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Originally Posted by Old Redneck View Post
. . . Like to try a pair of Glass packs Mufflers but don't want to make to loud just deep sound. Not sure about doing that. Any of you got Glass Pack Mufflers on your T-Bird?
I have a recently disassembled '57 Bird with no resonators and glass pack mufflers, don't know their brand if it matters. Later this week I'll be where it's getting body work and could measure the length and diameter for you if it helps.
It has / had a nice throatier sound more entertaining than the stock mufflers on my '55. And from inside the car they don't seem louder.
.

Last edited by dmsfrr; 10-19-2020 at 06:47 PM.
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Old 10-19-2020, 06:04 PM   #17
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Default Re: Heater no hot air from Heater?

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Originally Posted by Old Redneck View Post
I got no vacuum at my water control valve?
Apparently you have the bimetallic vacuum thermostat valve in conjunction with the vacuum operated water control valve. (thermostat valve is located in the heater register under the dash and the water valve is located on engine intake manifold).
If so, the way it works is that vacuum is pulled from the engine (intake manifold) via metal tubing to a rubber hose that penetrates the firewall and terminates at a nylon "tee" fitting. One end of the tee goes to windshield wiper motor and the other end has a hose that connects to the vacuum thermostat valve.
WHEN the temperature control knob is set to "heat", the vacuum thermostat valve opens vacuum to flow thru the thermostat valve to another little hose that goes back out thru the firewall to the water valve on the intake manifold. The vacuum pulls a plunger inside the water valve to open hot water flow to the heater core.
Soooo, if you wanna check vacuum, Run the engine, set the temp control knob to "heat", pull the vacuum hose off the water control valve on the engine and measure the vacuum pull coming thru the HOSE, not the water valve.
If no vacuum is detected by your guage, work your way back to the thermostat control valve and check the output hose there. Still no vacuum, pull the inlet hose off the thermostat control valve and measure vacuum pull from the HOSE. If no vacuum is detected, possibly your dual-action fuel pump has a busted vacuum diaphragm.
BUT do not assume so.
Bypass the vacuum booster on the fuel pump by connecting vacuum DIRECTLY from the metal tubing (originating at that square brass fitting on the intake manifold) via a rubber hose to the inlet of the thermostat control valve under the dash. Now select "heat" at the temperature control knob, then ONCE AGAIN go back to the water valve and check for vacuum at the HOSE.
If you NOW have vacuum, the thermostat control valve is GOOD ! Replace your dual-action fuel pump.
The only other thing that could be causing a problem is a cracked rubber hose (or disconnected) which is leaking all the vacuum.
Look at page 266 of the '56 Ford CAR shop manual to see illustration and read how the system works.
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Old 10-19-2020, 06:15 PM   #18
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Default Re: Heater no hot air from Heater?

VACUUM for the entire system (anything that uses vacuum in the car) originates at the square brass fitting on top of the intake manifold.
Cars that have a vacuum booster on the fuel pump (dual-action fuel pump) have the main vacuum routed via metal tubing down to the fuel pump vacuum booster, and right back out to serve the accessories (windshield wipers, windshield washer and heater vacuum control system, when so equipped).
The vacuum booster on the fuel pump maintains a STEADY pull of vacuum even when the engine is LOADED, in which vacuum is decreased). The dual-action fuel pump was used mainly to prevent the windshield wipers from stopping whenever you wanted to pass a car on the highway.
Normally, your intake manifold vacuum should be around 19-20" during engine idle and anytime engine is cruising (not loaded). When you stomp on the accellerator, the carb sucks all the vacuum so that you have none for accessories, and then when you let off the accellerator, the vacuum may momentarily jump way up to around 27", then settle back down to 19" when engine is idling or cruising again.
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Old 10-19-2020, 06:23 PM   #19
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Default Re: Heater no hot air from Heater?

The Holley 4000 on a '56 T-Bird has the brass manifold vacuum fitting on the lower back side of the carburetor.
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File Type: jpg 56 carb vac fitting.jpg (32.9 KB, 11 views)
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Old 10-19-2020, 06:29 PM   #20
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Default Re: Heater no hot air from Heater?

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Originally Posted by dmsfrr View Post
The Holley 4000 on a '56 T-Bird has the brass manifold vacuum fitting on the lower back side of the carburetor.
Apologies to all the 4-bbl intake owners. I'm kinda stuck on the pre 1957, 2-bbl "bugsprayer" type carbs.
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