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05-21-2019, 08:35 AM | #61 | |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
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This is interesting for around that same time (2003) Navarro introduced his hi flow head. It is a pop up, slightly angled piston design. At the time, the only pistons being made for this set up were from Arias @ $1,000 a set and the heads were a $100 premium over the $675 price for a "nostalgic" set. I balked at the price for the set up. From what I understand, Ross now is also making pistons for this set up and the price is around their normal custom piston price of $700. From what I gather, this set up is a great compromise between flow and compression. |
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05-21-2019, 09:09 AM | #62 | |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
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Anyway, to reply strictly to the quote above here, these numbers, 155 HP/265 TQ are indicative of what we almost always find on our basic 292" build, 3.312" x 4.250", Ross pistons/metric rings, Isky "8800", and single small 4 brl carb! Tri-power's see just a bit more! There is NO porting, NO oversize valves, and NO hidden little "secrets", just some old-fashioned type excellent machine work! This is basically the identical build to my friend Ron's ride in my signature below here! Going above 40,000 trouble-free miles now coming up on 9 years! Thanks, Gary in N.Y. P.S. Haven't heard back from Joe yet with any input from H&H, expecting to hear soon though. On an added note, knowing what we've learned through the years here about the power available from Turbo's this is what I'd be researching/testing if I were "chasing" Flathead HP. The sole issue with blowers is they consume some HP to run themselves. Not so with turbo's, have never done one though as far as I know. Sometimes after we do all the machining for some customers they walk out with their pieces and I don't hear anymore! There may have been a Turbo or two installed, just not aware.
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05-21-2019, 09:16 AM | #63 | |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
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Well, the turbo secret is out with junk yard LS motors getting 800+ or more h.p. with either one massive turbo or dual units. I think what is holding back most guys from going the turbo route is looks on a flathead powered hot rod. If I had a lead sled, I would serious consider it since you can hide the units in the engine bay. Might look a little out of place on an old roadster with two spools hanging over the frame rails. LOL! |
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05-21-2019, 01:38 PM | #64 | |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
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gary, my concern with turbocharging a flathead is the heat build up in the exhaust between the valve and the turbo. in a flathead all the heat is kept in the block.... |
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05-21-2019, 02:13 PM | #65 | ||
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
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If I was going to look to set any legitimate records today with the Flathead ( I'm not, believe me) I would most likely run it "Turboed", injected, and possibly on E-85, if not, on race fuel for sure! Definitely would be walking in "blind" though on a build like this. I would assume it would have to be a "concreted" block, at least partially anyway! Thanks, Gary in N.Y. P.S. While I have some peoples attention here I just got a phone call from a good friend and was told to expect to see a 25% increase in ALL off-shore cranks. After he hung up I made my own call to one of the larger mfr's and confirmed his info, it IS correct. This will affect the Flathead cranks and, I suppose, all the off-shore conn rods also! If you're contemplating a stroker in the near future you may want to pick up the crank/rods now and "stash" them??
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05-21-2019, 02:26 PM | #66 |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
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E-85 is the ticket with turbo charging for it has a cooling effect due to the corn alcohol. From what I gather, running E-85 is able to be done with fooling with the ECU programming on a LS motor. Last edited by Tim Ayers; 05-21-2019 at 03:40 PM. |
05-21-2019, 02:29 PM | #67 |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
P.S. While I have some peoples attention here I just got a phone call from a good friend and was told to expect to see a 25% increase in ALL off-shore cranks. After he hung up I made my own call to one of the larger mfr's and confirmed his info, it IS correct. This will affect the Flathead cranks and, I suppose, all the off-shore conn rods also! If you're contemplating a stroker in the near future you may want to pick up the crank/rods now and "stash" them??[/QUOTE]
More than likely most everything for the old cars will see this 25% increase due to tariffs on Chinese products. Looks like it will be some time before all this is sorted out. |
05-21-2019, 02:29 PM | #68 | |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
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I've been tinkering around in my mind on supercharging without losses.... think bonneville records.... need ballast in the nose usually anyway... so lets run some batteries up there and spin the supercharger electrically. they already do it with water pumps... why not the blower too. shit, now I just let my secret out. i was going to patent and sell it to ronnie roadster for his next record |
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05-21-2019, 02:33 PM | #69 |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
"P.S. While I have some peoples attention here I just got a phone call from a good friend and was told to expect to see a 25% increase in ALL off-shore cranks. After he hung up I made my own call to one of the larger mfr's and confirmed his info, it IS correct. This will affect the Flathead cranks and, I suppose, all the off-shore conn rods also! If you're contemplating a stroker in the near future you may want to pick up the crank/rods now and "stash" them??"
That is ok if you can be satisfied with oats that have been through the horse. Buy USA. FAR better quality. |
05-21-2019, 02:48 PM | #70 |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
A friend and I tinkered with electric powered superchargers a while ago. Although it has been done successfully (I read an article about an outfit that does it when I was "tinkering"), the bottom line is that it is extremely difficult to put together a package that provides enough power that is small and light enough to be practical.
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05-21-2019, 02:52 PM | #71 | |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
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yes, this was directed at bonneville only. weight and packaging isn't nearly as important.. well packaging can be but you can design around it. on a flathead you can use up a significant portion of your gains spinning the blower. there is NOTHING practical about electric supercharging. although I did read the BMW was looking to do this as a way to remove lag. small electric driven turbo on low end. |
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05-21-2019, 04:13 PM | #72 |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
All this talk about electric supercharging reminded me of the guy who put a vacuum cleaner in the back of his rig and ran the discharge hose up to his carburetor. Electric Supercharger. He had to run a small gas powered generator to power the vacuum cleaner as he didn’t have a 12 volt vacuum.
Sorry Gary about wondering off your original thread. |
05-21-2019, 05:05 PM | #73 |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
With 2900 visitors to this thread, seems like a few people are interested is the BS that makes them go fast. I try to keep the cost down so those big creaks ane nor in my budget. However. for the past 5 years I've had the pleasure to ride behing one of Gares 294 crank assys in a 38 Ford PU we put together. Edekbrock 74cc heads, L-100 cam and 3 stromburgs, from Uncle Max, make a fun ride.
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05-21-2019, 05:11 PM | #74 |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
Electric supercharger drives now that could work but if were talking top speeds at Bonneville the battery's needed for the long pull might be a bit more weight that will cancel out the possible speed gains. Being heavy trying to accelerate the weight can be a big handicap with most valve in block designs. Now on the thoughts of turbos. The major concern on the Flathead will be the valve seat cracking caused by the excessive heat backing up trying to spool up the turbo and the inlet charge crossing the seat to the cylinder edge. Take it from me its not that simple keeping the block relief area crack free I figured out how to do it this only took me five blocks to figure it out. But now at over 190 and now 200 MPH blown on gas my Ford Flathead blocks do not crack. Try getting a block to survive in that relief area is what you need to figure out first before you go to the next step. Oh and just to let you know my blocks are not filled in any way they all still have the original Ford water jackets as well as the original intake exhaust port layout. Good luck with the ideas hope you all have plenty of blocks to experiment with your going to need them. I look forward to seeing if it can be done with reliability that being no cracks.
Ronnieroadster
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I use the F word a lot no not that word these words Flathead , Focus and Finish. "Life Member of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club using a Ford Flathead block" Owner , Builder, Driver of the First Ford Flathead bodied roadster to run 200 MPH Record July 13, 2018 LTA timing association 200.921 in one and a half miles burning gasoline. First ever gas burning Ford flathead powered roadster to run 200 MPH at Bonneville Salt Flats setting the record August 7th 2021 at 205.744 MPH |
05-21-2019, 07:28 PM | #75 | |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
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05-21-2019, 08:39 PM | #76 | |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
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Looks like we would need two of the leaf motors since 23 pounds is the highest so far.
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I use the F word a lot no not that word these words Flathead , Focus and Finish. "Life Member of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club using a Ford Flathead block" Owner , Builder, Driver of the First Ford Flathead bodied roadster to run 200 MPH Record July 13, 2018 LTA timing association 200.921 in one and a half miles burning gasoline. First ever gas burning Ford flathead powered roadster to run 200 MPH at Bonneville Salt Flats setting the record August 7th 2021 at 205.744 MPH |
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05-22-2019, 06:10 AM | #77 |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
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05-22-2019, 11:40 AM | #78 |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
so while we are on the subject of ultra high performance flatheads....
what are the costs of billet cranks running for them?? do you guys run a girdle with a 2 extra main supports?? one of these days I'm going to make my way down to ron's hobby shop and be a fly on the wall to pick his brain for my next build!!! |
05-22-2019, 03:58 PM | #79 | |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
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The really good cranks which include the five main option cost a bit over 3 grand. Not something for the average guy to run on the street but for all out use its much better than the off shore options. Call ahead for the visit im sure I will be in the middle of one of those not very fuel efficient flatheads i so like to build for others and my self of course. Fuel economy not spoken here.
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I use the F word a lot no not that word these words Flathead , Focus and Finish. "Life Member of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club using a Ford Flathead block" Owner , Builder, Driver of the First Ford Flathead bodied roadster to run 200 MPH Record July 13, 2018 LTA timing association 200.921 in one and a half miles burning gasoline. First ever gas burning Ford flathead powered roadster to run 200 MPH at Bonneville Salt Flats setting the record August 7th 2021 at 205.744 MPH |
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05-22-2019, 06:13 PM | #80 |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
I’ve seen Ronnie’s five main crank set up. It’s pretty impressive. Since I had to take a blood oath and pinky swear that I would not spill trade secrets, that’s all I can say about it.
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