36' rear tail pan repair

[ford nut]

has anybody done a repair involving these parts from EMS? do you have any pictures you can show of the work? i'm starting mine very soon, i have the inner piece and might want to reuse the outer skin after tapping it out while it's out and on the bench. i'll include three pics off the web of others doing their repair, never have seen a side shot showing the side seam/weld. thanks for any help, kurt.

[Lawson Cox]

Lookin' good.

[swedishsteel]

I did this on my 36 coupe. I didn't use all of the path panel, just enough to repair the rust out, which was below the body line so I didn't have to match that. It has been several years, but the only problem/misfit I remember is that the bosses for the bumper mounts weren't tight against the braces on the end of the frame so I had to slide shims between the sheet metal and the brace so the sheet metal wouldn't be distorted when I mounted the bumper and tightened the bolts. The metal is distorted around the bumper mounts so it took some hammer and dolly work to make them look decent, and the shape from side to side wasn't the same--things only the owner will normally see, but "seeable" just the same. Good luck. Don't plan on doing it in a couple hours--a long seam to match and weld.

[Kube]

Kurt, I'd not done any 36 repairs with EMS pieces. However, I have (as a last resort) utilized their stiff on other year Fords.
If their '36 parts are anything like other year stuff they offer, be prepared to do a lot of modifying.
Yes, their stuff is better than nothing. However, in a few cases, not much.

Good luck with your project.

[TagMan]

I replaced my lower pan rust-out with the patch panel from EMS. My first time replacing a fairly difficult piece, but it came out great. I'll post pics tomorrow.
-Bob

[ford nut]

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Originally Posted by swedishsteel

I did this on my 36 coupe. I didn't use all of the path panel, just enough to repair the rust out, which was below the body line so I didn't have to match that. It has been several years, but the only problem/misfit I remember is that the bosses for the bumper mounts weren't tight against the braces on the end of the frame so I had to slide shims between the sheet metal and the brace so the sheet metal wouldn't be distorted when I mounted the bumper and tightened the bolts. The metal is distorted around the bumper mounts so it took some hammer and dolly work to make them look decent, and the shape from side to side wasn't the same--things only the owner will normally see, but "seeable" just the same. Good luck. Don't plan on doing it in a couple hours--a long seam to match and weld.

thanks for your reply. i thought of doing the same (i'll include a pic) as far as "cropping" the patch panel down to the minimum needed. but then i thought if i reuse the original outer sheet metal, i would be in control of where i cut it off at the top horizontal line giving myself more room to work in that tight space. having the panel off, i could really hammer and dolly it out on the bench before re-installing it. new panel or old it has to get welded back on. my inner panel had a spacer spot welded in to make up for any space between body brackets and sheet metal on each side. i think about 12g. thick. i've got lead to melt out, brass to get rid of and two 3-1/2" holes above bumper mounts. it looks like at some point the body mount bolt that go up through the brackets rusted and froze and the nut was spinning in it's cage. it was brazed and leaded. i've allowed 1-1/2 to 2 weeks to make it solid again. here's that picture, not mine, off the web. here's rare shot from the inside!

[ford nut]

Originally Posted by TagMan

I replaced my lower pan rust-out with the patch panel from EMS. My first time replacing a fairly difficult piece, but it came out great. I'll post pics tomorrow.
-Bob

thanks, i really would like to see any side shots if you have any. most pics are only from the rear. a picture from the side, fenders off doesn't seem to exist. i guess it will when i'm done.

[ford nut]

Originally Posted by Kube

Kurt, I'd not done any 36 repairs with EMS pieces. However, I have (as a last resort) utilized their stiff on other year Fords.
If their '36 parts are anything like other year stuff they offer, be prepared to do a lot of modifying.
Yes, their stuff is better than nothing. However, in a few cases, not much.

Good luck with your project.

ouch. but you're right. i'm going to replace the trunk floor extension, but the photos are so bad on EMS site i can't get excited about theirs. one photo, none from the side showing a bent edge to weld to wheel well. there are 3 beads rolled into it, but look smaller than my original, although cracked and gas welded part i removed. i think i'll draw it up and have gilbert metal products here in so-cal make it with the right size beads. i'll be posting actual pics of mine when the project is farther along. thank you, kurt.

[Gary Tosel]

For 35-36 Fords, there is special washer that is inserted between the frame extension and the rear bumper brackets to prevent the body sheet metal bending in towards the extension. SwedishSteel mentioned this solution.

[TagMan]

ford nut,
I wasn't real good about taking pics of every step in replacing the tail pan panel. I start out OK, but then I get into it and forget the pics. In any event, here's the ones I have. Hope they will be of some help,
-Bob

36 Tail Pan Replacement 017 by TagMan, on Flickr

36 Tail Pan Replacement 016a by TagMan, on Flickr

36 Tail Pan Replacement 018 by TagMan, on Flickr

36 Tail Pan Replacement 019a by TagMan, on Flickr

36 Tail Pan Replacement 021a by TagMan, on Flickr

36 Tail Pan Replacement 021b by TagMan, on Flickr

[ford nut]

tagman, i don't think i have two parts shown in your first pic. bent metal box's around the bumper mounts. did you leave your inner panel intact? some call it a "tool box" i don't know why, for me thats the main part that need replacing. also, do you remember where made your side seems / welds? was it in the wheel well area, below the fender, or above the fender? good timing with your photos. thanks, kurt.

[Blastfromthepast]

I changed the inner patch panel on my 36 with EMS replacement. A couple of things you should know. On your original panel you will have to remove the inner bumper supports that are spot welded and then weld them to your new inner pan. The support brackets are important to support the bumper and also will help with the problem of crushIng the square outer box. You will also have to remove the spot welds of the inner spare tire support bracket which can be done through the trunk area. You will also have to drill several holes on the new inner panel to attach the body to the frame. Try to get them close to the original location or you will have a problem lining it up with the frame. Take your time. You will know what I’m talking about when you remove the inner panel. You will also have to cut the old inner pan out right where it meets the trunk floor. Also some some spot welds where the inner panel touches the wheel well. Take your time and you should be okay.

[ford nut]

Blastfromthepast - you have any photos of your repair? i just 10mins ago made the cut. i'm taking a little break, then going back out to look for surprises. i already saw no little square boxes around bumper brackets. i should have more pics later tonight of the "before the cut. and after the cut" and the "where to cut" to late to change horses, i'm committed to whatever i've done.

[Blastfromthepast]

Hi Fordnut, tag man has some nice pictures. The way I understand your only removing the inner patch panel. If you notice on tag mans picture of the outer panel removed you will see Cage nuts that you will have to attach to the new panel. Also what you don’t and will see later there are reinforcements that are spot welded where the bumper bolts go through. They will have to be removed from the old panel and welded to the new panel. There is also a weld where the spare tire bracket attaches to the inner panel that has to be separated. Take your time and you run into any problems you will figure out the solution. Not rocket science. You can do it. Keep in touch.

[Blastfromthepast]

Just thinking, you may have to take the inner pan out section at a time to reach certain welds. I’m not sure it’s been a while.

[ford nut]

i'm still here, keep getting side tracked. i talked to EMS about their trunk floor extension piece, he just wanted to sell and not answer questions or send me pics showing the side detail/ flange, or tell me how it's supposed to tie into the rear inner panel. i'll draw up what i need and take it to a shop here that can do this type of stuff. i had a problem with the 3 beads EMS stamps into theirs. too narrow. i'll post some pics of my mess. i do have a question for those who really know there cars (36' 5w coupe) the picture from underneath looking at the inside wheel well, the trunk floor is level. then the sheet metal drops down to the frame rear cross member, just as the floor drops, there is a angled notch stamped in to the floor, it goes side to side. what is this for? almost like it's for a wood filler plate to keep junk from falling into that space your arm can't fit into. let me know, kurt.

[ford nut]

a little more progress, inner pan not welded, still playing with the fit. i'll try and post as many pics as i can so the next poor slob needing to do this will have something to look at in one place. outer skin wanted to fold up like a potato chip when cut away. built up tension from being hit. if anyone wants to add to these photos feel free. here comes a few more. . . .

[ford nut]

here are some pictures of the old bumper mounts and the 1/8" bent reinforcement straps that i didn't know about. . . .

[Zeke3]

Thanks for all the great pictures and explanation of the tail pan repair. I have to make this repair on my '37 sometime soon.

[Blastfromthepast]

Fordnut, those where the reinforcements I was talking about. Good job creating new ones.Don’t forget the cage nuts on the new panel. If you can, line up the old inner panel with the new panel when you drill the new mounting holes to the chassis. If I’m not mistaken there are also cage nut that need to be welded on the left and right sides of the inner panel. It’s where the last whole of the fender mounting bolt is located just as the tail pan curves under the body.great job, take your time. Blast.

[ford nut]

Originally Posted by Blastfromthepast

Fordnut, those where the reinforcements I was talking about. Good job creating new ones.Don’t forget the cage nuts on the new panel. If you can, line up the old inner panel with the new panel when you drill the new mounting holes to the chassis. If I’m not mistaken there are also cage nut that need to be welded on the left and right sides of the inner panel. It’s where the last whole of the fender mounting bolt is located just as the tail pan curves under the body.great job, take your time. Blast.

yep, i'v got all the cage nuts. the bottom of the inner has to be trimmed around bumper mounts. my originals show how they were. EMS doesn't leave enough metal on the ends plus it's very curvy for some reason. i'll cut away the strange curves and weld in more metal for cage nuts to weld to. right now they're half on- half off.

[Blastfromthepast]

Yes your right about the extra metal to weld in.
It’s now bringing back memories. When you drill the holes in the pan
Make the holes just a little larger will save you later when you line them up with the chassis.

[ford nut]

i did a mock-up late last night, i seems like it just might go back together at some point. i'v got a new list of 5 or 6 things to do that will get it closer. i dropped off my measurements today at the sheet metal guy to make the trunk floor extension top, piece i need. nobody came on to tell me what that "angled notch" was for, so it will be flat and notch-less. i have something else in mind to keep junk out of that dead space.

[Blastfromthepast]

When I installed my inner panel I cut it after the notch where that piece of wood is inserted. I’m not sure what the wood was actually used for. Maybe to finish off the trunk area? The cut was made after the wood insert towards the rear of the tail just as it notched downward.

[ford nut]

i've looked and looked, you cannot find a picture on the internet of the rear most part of the trunk floor, or the piece of wood. maybe it's not wood. i've never seen one. i would think it's there to keep junk from falling into the small space. what year did you make your
tailpan repair?

[TagMan]

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Sorry, haven't intentionally ignored you, just hadn't seen the thread and forgot look for it (CRS !).

I only had to replace a small piece of the inner panel and didn't get into the problems you had. I guess you've already received answers to the questions posed to me. Again, sorry for not responding sooner.
-Bob

[ford nut]

Originally Posted by TagMan

Sorry, haven't intentionally ignored you, just hadn't seen the thread and forgot look for it (CRS !).

I only had to replace a small piece of the inner panel and didn't get into the problems you had. I guess you've already received answers to the questions posed to me. Again, sorry for not responding sooner.
-Bob

not a problem at all. this isn't real life, it's a hobby. i get pulled away all the time. it'll happen at it's own pace. thanks for your reply.

[Blastfromthepast]

I replaced the pan on my 36 Club Cabriolet.
I’ll see if I can get some pics for you.
It’s covered up and tucked away but I may be able to squeeze
In between other projects to get to it.

[rich b]

Originally Posted by ford nut

i've looked and looked, you cannot find a picture on the internet of the rear most part of the trunk floor, or the piece of wood. maybe it's not wood. i've never seen one. i would think it's there to keep junk from falling into the small space. what year did you make your
tailpan repair?

There is a piece of wood that covers the back of the trunk; it fits between that groove and two little wood blocks screwed to the holes in the floor (yellow circle) and extends upward to flat area just below the lip of the opening. Kinda off in the distance in the one picture. I'll try to get a picture of the panel in my coupe if I get out to shop today.

[Blastfromthepast]

Rich b. Thank you for those pictures.
If you find more photos please post them with any
Other information for the purpose of the wood panel.
We’re they ever covered with material or left natural wood.

[ford nut]

Originally Posted by rich b

There is a piece of wood that covers the back of the trunk; it fits between that groove and two little wood blocks screwed to the holes in the floor (yellow circle) and extends upward to flat area just below the lip of the opening. Kinda off in the distance in the one picture. I'll try to get a picture of the panel in my coupe if I get out to shop today.

thanks! i wood (would) love to see it in place. is it plumb, is it tilted back? what does it rest against? is it screwed down? when you don't have one (me) you have no idea. i would've thought the top of it would have a radius to fit the outer skin of the body. the one you show has simple straight 90 degree cuts.

[Mattcan]

Nice work

[rich b]

Originally Posted by ford nut

thanks! I wood (would) love to see it in place. is it plumb, is it tilted back? what does it rest against? is it screwed down? when you don't have one (me) you have no idea. i would've thought the top of it would have a radius to fit the outer skin of the body. the one you show has simple straight 90 degree cuts.

The piece sits against the rear lip of the trunk floor. It is held there by two small wood blocks (as seen in my previously posted picture) secured by screws from the bottom up in the holes I marked in the other picture.

The top edge rests against and is screwed onto the panel below the trunk opening; probably find the four screw holes once you know where to look.

I copied my panel from the picture that someone had posted here. The contours and fit around the center and drain hoses could probably be fancied up as compared to Ford's original; but as it is; it will keep stuff from falling down in that area.

I will be taking it out and painting flat black; but I also need to make one of the forward divider boards and then paint both pieces. My kid has one of the front boards to use as a pattern; just keep forgetting to grab it.

[rich b]

Originally Posted by Blastfromthepast

Rich b. Thank you for those pictures.
If you find more photos please post them with any
Other information for the purpose of the wood panel.
We’re they ever covered with material or left natural wood.

I got the dimensions from these pictures previously posted by another Ford Barn contributor.

There were pictures posted of an original truck interior and piece appeared to be black and was not fabric covered.

[Blastfromthepast]

Rich b, thank you for the pictures and the dimensions.
It will come in handy when I cut mine out.
Thanks again Blast.

[ford nut]

love the details and photos! thank you, good to see the original plan. i'm surprised there's so much space around the drainage tubes on the ends. mice can move around freely. that why i found 5 or 6 dead ones down in there. i think i'll make mine more tightly fitted.

[deuce lover]

Pics I found on the HAMB that might help.

[ford nut]

thanks deuce lover. every bit helps. my project is stalled for now as i wait for my trunk floor extension, but i've got lots of other things done than needed to get done, i'll post some pics. of the rust i found and other damage. . .

[ford nut]

more. . . . .

[ford nut]

i few more. . . .

[ford nut]

messed up filler neck hole. . . .

[ford nut]

more stuff to fix. . . .

[ford nut]

more? yes.

[ford nut]

many, many delays with this fix. i'll post more pics of the slow progress and a couple of other things that need attention. these project car that people like me can afford need all kinds of repairs to make them whole again.
much time spent reversing bad repairs from decades ago when the tool of choice seemed to be a torch and a mallet.

[ford nut]

I ended up buying EMS outer skin too, which is the only game in town and will speed things up a bit. i was spending too much time working on the piece i cut out which was work hardened and not being cooperative. this has made more work though because now i will need TWO long horizontal seams. you'll see.

the inner EMS panel gave me a lot of trouble because the ends were not stamped for anything i was going to join together. not enough metal hang over to attach cage nuts to, or plug weld to rear fender houses, so more time figuring out how to make it solid again.
all the tough decisions have been made and it's moving forward again in my spare time. here's some pics.

At this point it's all just clamped while i think about the order to begin as some things will prevent access to other steps that need to be done. i think i can start tack welding it this weekend on the inner panels. as much as a pain in the rear all this - i enjoy it.

hopefully all this will help someone who needs it. more pics to come as it moves along.

[ford nut]

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Originally Posted by Kube

Kurt, I'd not done any 36 repairs with EMS pieces. However, I have (as a last resort) utilized their stiff on other year Fords.
If their '36 parts are anything like other year stuff they offer, be prepared to do a lot of modifying.
Yes, their stuff is better than nothing. However, in a few cases, not much.

Good luck with your project.

you are correct. the inner trunk floor extension kicked my butt. it had to be stretched 5/16 - 3/8 in width, and all the
curve hammered back into it to match my untouched wheel houses.

whatever metal the parts are stamped from - it's very forgiving though. i felt like a blacksmith i was pounding it so hard.

[Bored&Stroked]

You're tackling it one chunk at a time . . . very nice work and thanks for posting all the details!

[Zeke3]

I have to tackle this area on my '37, so I also love the detail you have provided. Keep up the good work.

[ford nut]

Well here it is about 8 month later and this whole stupid tail project is just about done. i'm just going to post a bunch of photos and if anyone needs explanations, please ask, kurt.

[ford nut]

more . . .

[ford nut]

yet more . . .

[ford nut]

we done? no . . .

[ford nut]

keeps going . .and going . . this is where it's at right now.

[ford nut]

here's a bonus fix that needed to get done too. part of the same area.
if the weather hold out, it will get two more coats of epoxy primer in the next few days.

[ford nut]

plus this, it's never ending. . .

[Elmo Rodge]

Looking good. That's a lot of work but well worth it.
Wayno

[tubman]

This makes one realize all of the detail work that goes into something like this. On the "TV Shows", it only takes about 30 seconds.

Excellent work.

['36 5W]

Ain't that the truth!
Ugh, I do not look forward to this fugly part of the body work;
but you have certainly done an admirable job of it.
Thanks for the tips, and I "tip my hat" to your skills and perseverance!

[ford nut]

thank you guys. it was not an easy repair, but even a non pro like me can get through it. but it's slow going. one more to go, the driver side lower cowl. i did the other side just before the rear tail pan. the driver side should go faster as i know what to expect now.

[Zeke3]

Your repairs are looking great, keep up the good work. Thanks for the inspiration. I have many similar repairs to make on my 37 coupe. I should go ahead and buy the repair panels and get with it.

[glennpm]

I just noticed this thread. Wow!! Great work and patience to do it. It reminded me of parts of my previously channeled 32 roadster.


Glenn

[ford nut]

if they make the part, get it i wasted a lot time work on trying to use the old part. it really depends on the condition of the old metal.

[Do It Over]

Originally Posted by deuce lover

Pics I found on the HAMB that might help.

How ironic. I was given this link to help me with my repair and I find pics of my car. What a small world 😉.

[Do It Over]

Originally Posted by ford nut

thank you guys. it was not an easy repair, but even a non pro like me can get through it. but it's slow going. one more to go, the driver side lower cowl. i did the other side just before the rear tail pan. the driver side should go faster as i know what to expect now.

Great work and very inspiring. I'm doing the same repairs on my 1935 5W. After studying you're pics I think I have enough info to finish my repairs and weld my tail panel back on. Thanks for the help.

[ford nut]

Originally Posted by Do It Over

Great work and very inspiring. I'm doing the same repairs on my 1935 5W. After studying you're pics I think I have enough info to finish my repairs and weld my tail panel back on. Thanks for the help.

thats great. i take pics anyway, might as well post them for other guys. good luck with your repair, kurt.