Anyone running an aluminum radiator?

[mcorrell]

With the cost of brass/copper stock appearing radiators topping $700 these days, I am tempted to try one in my '29 to replace the non leaking, but 2-row 1970s radiator that overheats on long grades and above 80° temps. The price seems fair and it will allow me to use the other money to fix the steering and other things needed to keep the car on the road and safe to pass down to my daughter one day.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by mcorrell

With the cost of brass/copper stock appearing radiators topping $700 these days, I am tempted to try one in my '29 to replace the non leaking, but 2-row 1970s radiator that overheats on long grades and above 80° temps. The price seems fair and it will allow me to use the other money to fix the steering and other things needed to keep the car on the road and safe to pass down to my daughter one day.

It's your money -and your car, but I would strongly encourage you to avoid the temptation to 'McGuyver' your car. Especially if you want it to be an heirloom. The aluminum radiators I have seen (-or heard about who tried them) do not fit. They are cheap for a reason, ...and it isn't solely because they are brass & copper.

[Marshall V. Daut]

A guy in town bought an aluminum radiator on-line for his 1930 Town Sedan and it was an unmitigated disaster for fit. The filler neck was mislocated so that the shell had to be forced downward, yet still wouldn't seat properly. The cap wouldn't seat, either, because the shell was up too high. To put coolant in the radiator, he left the two bottom shell mounting bolts out so that he could swing the shell outwards from the bottom to remove the cap that he had to glue in place because it couldn't be twisted on. None of the four side brackets for securing the shell were lined up properly, so he had to re-drill the holes, using only the upper two with the nuts left loose. The upper water neck to the cylinder head was at the wrong angle, putting a noticeable "kink" in the upper hose, like a python that had swallowed a tin can. The core is aluminum silver instead of the correct black and the core design is odd-looking. VERY odd-looking to a seasoned Model A owner's eyes. Other than these problems, however...
On the positive side of the ledger, the guy said the engine didn't overheat. But he only drove it a couple times before he got rid of the radiator and then bought a quality Brassworks radiator (You know - the $700+ one?!) and that solved ALL of the above cited problems. He really regrets throwing away a bunch of money on that ill-fitting aluminum radiator. He lost a ton of money when he sold it, too. I hope the new owner has better luck with it.
Food for thought when considering buying an aluminum radiator because it's cheaper than the more expensive correct radiator. In this life, you usually get what you pay for. Sometimes you just gotta' bite the bullet and buy quality. A good radiator is one of those Model A items that it doesn't pay to go cheap.
By the way, I bought one of those two-row radiators from J.C. Whitney in 1973 and was miserable with it. It wouldn't cool a Model A in northern Michigan in late December during a blizzard. An absolute a waste of money. I'm surprised any of them are still in service.
Marshall

[ronn]

I did this with my 57 chevy nomad and it fit like a glove and was an easy install and worked well.


with that said, I would consider finding a good used model A rad first, because of what was mentioned above. It will look correct, fit correct and cool better then what you currently have.


I would be looking to buy from a guy who is or has installed a sbc in his build.
I do understand your pain at 700. there are always other options and 200. should buy you a good used original.

[TomInCologne]

Talking about radiators and repairing them... This is how it's done in india...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJlTIddJIB4

[Dick M]

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I have only seen one aluminum radiator installation. Plain and simple: the radiator did not even come close to fitting. It was sent back. JMHO it was junk and not worth the effort..
P.S. (It looked out of place and ugly on a Model A).

[ModelA29]

Originally Posted by TomInCologne

Talking about radiators and repairing them... This is how it's done in india...

Pretty much how radiators were rodded out here until about 15-20 years ago when replacing epoxied aluminum/plastic radiators rather than repairing them became the norm. The main difference is our shops didn't save/reuse solder and they had tanks of acid to clean the radiators not canfuls.

[mcgarrett]

Anybody had any experience with this one?

https://www.amazon.com/ALLOYWORKS-Al...%2C128&sr=8-47

[ronn]

Tom, might be worth sending 100 of them to India for a rebuild.............

[mcorrell]

Thanks. I was hoping the quality and fit might have improved over the past few years. Guess I'll keep my driving to cool days and/or nights. While I usually don't treat my old cars as investments, it is hard to drop a lot of money into an "A" these days. I could easily spend $1500 on her for a new radiator and steering box rebuild just in parts and not have a car worth much more and only be just a bit of a better driver. I'd rather spend that on engine work to pick up power to keep up with traffic, which would only exacerbate poor cooling and steering. Maybe my '64 Buick convertible won't eat up my old car budget next year?

[airjam]

Originally Posted by mcgarrett

Anybody had any experience with this one?

https://www.amazon.com/ALLOYWORKS-Al...%2C128&sr=8-47

I could not afford to buy the Brassworks rad so I took the chance and bought an aluminium one from Amazon. Fitted perfectly and my car now runs too cool in hot Florida. Always 140 and below. I looked for one that looked as close as the original noting the side tabs shape and the correct filler neck for 1928-29. Everything fitted perfectly. My only issue no big deal was the core did not fill all the way across the shell looking from the front. At the sides the vertical aluminium frame showed about an inch on both sides. I have a stone gaurd so it did not show.

I would not buy the one in your link The filler neck is wrong for 1928-29. The bottom tank is incorrect as it is straight at he bottom. The mounting shell tabs are not shaped correctly as pretty sure you will have fitment issues.

[Bruce of MN]

Originally Posted by ModelA29

Pretty much how radiators were rodded out here until about 15-20 years ago when replacing epoxied aluminum/plastic radiators rather than repairing them became the norm. The main difference is our shops didn't save/reuse solder and they had tanks of acid to clean the radiators not canfuls.

No pesky gloves for those guys!

I did like the way they reused the solder. I couldn’t tell if there was any chemical that was used and didn’t get splashed on their hands.

[Synchro909]

Years ago, I had a new radiator made here in Australia (it was very good) and I listened to the same guy speaking at a restoration seminar last weekend. He only does aluminium radiators these days. He says they are way better than copper/brass ones. I was not at all surprised to read the posts above about poor Al radiators you guys have after previous threads. All you have to do is buy from a good source. They might cost a few extra $ but they should work fine. They should be good value whereas the junk you are being sold now is no value if it doesn't even fit.
In short, you gets what you pays for!

[katy]

Recycling is planning a comeback.

I didn't know it left.

[updraught]

Originally Posted by TomInCologne

Talking about radiators and repairing them... This is how it's done in india...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJlTIddJIB4

Did his tea come out of the radiator?

[eagle]

The chinese aluminum radiators are like everything else coming out of that country...some are junk and some are very well done. There have been several posts on this subject in years past.

[GeneBob]

My engine has always run hot so I wanted to try a new radiator. The top notch brass radiators would cost upwards of $1500 and I just wanted to see if I could make any improvement so I got one of the $300 aluminum radiators. I knew there may be issues installing it but decided to live with it. This version has the filler neck under the hood so I adapted the quail radiator cap to the radiator shell so it would look right. I had to drill the radiator shell mounting holes into the radiator tabs and the mounting to the frame holes but the overall installation went pretty well. The radiator (Champion) installed pretty well, I painted the core with barbeque paint and it looks fine.
Net result: my car still runs hot.
I wish you lived near by, I would loan you my previous replacement Brassworks radiator to see if it worked for you.

[TomInCologne]

Originally Posted by ronn

Tom, might be worth sending 100 of them to India for a rebuild.............

if this guy was living next to me and i had a problem with my radiator, i would gladly give it to him because he does leave the impression that he knows what he is doing.


On the other hand... health & safety at work and the environment? i am glad that he is not living and working next to me.

[TomInCologne]

Originally Posted by ModelA29

Pretty much how radiators were rodded out here until about 15-20 years ago when replacing epoxied aluminum/plastic radiators rather than repairing them became the norm. The main difference is our shops didn't save/reuse solder and they had tanks of acid to clean the radiators not canfuls.

... and hopefully they had a workbench... and some safety shoes... and proper gloves... and safety goggles...


i always cringe when i see people with an angle grinder and no eye protection. i mean, yes, you have two eyes, but....

[ronn]

On the other hand... health & safety at work and the environment? i am glad that he is not living and working next to me.



Tom, you cant have it all! lol


the point of this thread is a fella has a budget, so what will it be? safety and cleanleness at 1500.


or a hoj poj shop for 50 dolla!!!!!!!!!!!!! (that seemingly does a good job)

[larry harding]

removing the tank and rodding the tubes is not that big of a job if you can solder. i did the rad on my pickup a few years ago and it turned out fine. un fortunately i just tried to do one for the speedster i'm building but the tubes were stopped up so solidly i damaged the tubes trying to clean them. i don't have the facility to hot tank as was done in the old shops that have closed up. that would probably have softened the gunk in the tubes.

[Bruce of MN]

I was surprised at how quickly the propane heated iron would heat the metal and melt the solder. I have tried soldering the lapped corners of a galvanized pan with a propane torch and even that material conducted the heat away and required a lot of heating. Maybe it was modern no-lead solder at fault and that is why the guy saved the old solder?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by mcorrell

Thanks. I was hoping the quality and fit might have improved over the past few years. Guess I'll keep my driving to cool days and/or nights. While I usually don't treat my old cars as investments, it is hard to drop a lot of money into an "A" these days. I could easily spend $1500 on her for a new radiator and steering box rebuild just in parts and not have a car worth much more and only be just a bit of a better driver. I'd rather spend that on engine work to pick up power to keep up with traffic, which would only exacerbate poor cooling and steering. Maybe my '64 Buick convertible won't eat up my old car budget next year?

Again, it is your car and your money but IMO what you are describing is difficult for me to understand. You state that you want to make your MOdel-A safe & reliable so you can pass this vehicle on to your daughter, ...yet you are concerned that spending $1,500.00 to repair a poorly 'restored' vehicle is not a value to you. From my vantage point, I would think you WOULD want to give your daughter the best, -and make the vehicle as safe as possible, ...and as reliable as possible just as these cars were when new. The idea that a dad gave their daughter some POS unreliable Model-A with the expectation that she should embrace it in that condition does not appear to me to be what an heirloom is about. Maybe I am wrong though??

[mcorrell]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Again, it is your car and your money but IMO what you are describing is difficult for me to understand. You state that you want to make your MOdel-A safe & reliable so you can pass this vehicle on to your daughter, ...yet you are concerned that spending $1,500.00 to repair a poorly 'restored' vehicle is not a value to you. From my vantage point, I would think you WOULD want to give your daughter the best, -and make the vehicle as safe as possible, ...and as reliable as possible just as these cars were when new. The idea that a dad gave their daughter some POS unreliable Model-A with the expectation that she should embrace it in that condition does not appear to me to be what an heirloom is about. Maybe I am wrong though??

Brent, you make some good points. The car is safe, though the steering has about 4" of play at the steering wheel. That will be fixed soon as it appears the culprit is worn bushings in the steering housing. The overheating occurs only in very specific instances (ambient temps over 80° and on long grades), which can be avoided. This was my grandfather's car which he bought "restored" in the late 1980s. The restorer took many shortcuts, including the 2 core radiator which has about 1/2 gallon less capacity than stock. After my grandfather passed, my dad put it in his barn for 10 years and then sent it to me in mechanically rough condition (barn find). The 40 year old tires at the time were all flat by the time it arrived and it didn't run due to a cracked head and stuck rings. I've had to put about $3000-$3500 in it to get it safe and reliable (within the limits of temperature) and also dropped $1000 in the shipping and $8000 in a new garage to house it. The car starts/drives/stops well.
I guess I am to that point were I've got 90% of the way there mechanically but the last 10% is going to cost half of what the first 90% cost.

[Oldbluoval]

I’ve been involved with A’s for over 60 years…since 14.
First of all, in today’s environment there is NO way to make a Model A safe for any sort of normal travel. The world has passed this design by, imho. 9 gallons of gas in your lap, windshield 12” away….They are acceptable for local, slow traffic, driving, group convoys, parades and special events. Plus, other drivers have just become attackers!
But giving someone a car with sure steering problems (4” play), overheating, all the other stuff. With that going on, what about brakes, et al?
Fix it or park it. Or, just admire it!!
Ok have at me…I’m sure many will

[nkaminar]

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Mcorrell, I have a pressurized radiator that you can have if you want to go that route. I live in Wilkesboro and you would have to pick it up. I think it has a small leak that would have to be repaired but would do a good job of cooling. I bought a Berts radiator before he stopped making them and I am very glad I did. I wanted the atmospheric radiator for authenticity.

I think the radiator could be modified to run at atmospheric pressure by adding a top filler neck.

[katy]

Originally Posted by TomInCologne

I always cringe when i see people with an angle grinder and no eye protection. i mean, yes, you have two eyes, but....

Only one pair to a customer.

[mcorrell]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

Mcorrell, I have a pressurized radiator that you can have if you want to go that route. I live in Wilkesboro and you would have to pick it up. I think it has a small leak that would have to be repaired but would do a good job of cooling. I bought a Berts radiator before he stopped making them and I am very glad I did. I wanted the atmospheric radiator for authenticity.

I think the radiator could be modified to run at atmospheric pressure by adding a top filler neck.

Thank you nkaminar. I'm sure I can make it work out. I'll PM you.

[mcorrell]

Originally Posted by Oldbluoval

I’ve been involved with A’s for over 60 years…since 14.
First of all, in today’s environment there is NO way to make a Model A safe for any sort of normal travel. The world has passed this design by, imho. 9 gallons of gas in your lap, windshield 12” away….They are acceptable for local, slow traffic, driving, group convoys, parades and special events. Plus, other drivers have just become attackers!
But giving someone a car with sure steering problems (4” play), overheating, all the other stuff. With that going on, what about brakes, et al?
Fix it or park it. Or, just admire it!!
Ok have at me…I’m sure many will

I agree that making a Model A "safe" for today's roads is a hard task. The car is driven on 35-45 mph roads 90% of the time....not to say that many drivers adhere to the speed limit. I've added LED lights to the single OE tail light and added a second LED tail light on top of the spare where modern "3rd" lights are located. Also, I always drive with the cowl and tail lights on for visibility. We had a local couple rear ended in their '37 Ford pickup, killing them both.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

I think the radiator could be modified to run at atmospheric pressure by adding a top filler neck.

I agree. Likely just remove a small section of the rubber gasket from the radiator cap and it will no longer build any pressure.

(BTW Neil, I sent you a text.)

[nkaminar]

Got the PM and text. Responded to both.

[nkaminar]

Sorry Mark, My brain was in neutral. My radiator is a 1930-31. You can still have it and maybe trade if for a 28-29 radiator.

[Tanglfoot]

I purchased a Fordor that had a new ali radiator and it boiled 6 times on the ride home, first job was to replace it with an A rad no more probs.
Cheers Tanglfoot

[Rusty30roadster]

I run a cheap Amazon Aluminum radiator in my 30 roadster. Yes the inlet diameter is smaller than the model A but I just bought a hose to reduce down to the radiator diameter inlet. A lot of people knock the cheap radiators but for a guy with young children and tight budget, it’s awesome. It keeps the car cool and cost me 1/6th other brands.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B09MT...b_b_asin_title

[eagle]

There are several aluminum radiators out there that DO fit the original shell. With a dusting of radiator black paint they look pretty good. There was a thread on fordbarn a few years ago talking about this same subject. Some sellers are willing to stand behind the fit of their radiators, buy from them. About $250 last time I looked.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by TomInCologne

Talking about radiators and repairing them... This is how it's done in india...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJlTIddJIB4

Thank you for posting this, it was very interesting. The guy could make a fortune here. It is realty too bad we don't have artisans like that any more.

[katy]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

It is realty too bad we don't have artisans like that any more.

I'll second that.

[larry harding]

i'm looking for a 30-31 radiator. if it issn taken i might be interested. thanks.... larry

[ronn]

the cheap radiators but for a guy with young children and tight budget, it’s awesome. It keeps the car cool and cost me 1/6th other brands.



this is the one point "many" on here miss. Everyone isnt over 70 with a large budget.
or under 70 with a large budget............


diff times of life bring diff outcomes.

[TomInCologne]

Originally Posted by katy

I'll second that.

Snyders and the like could gather 100 radiators, put them in a container and get them shipped to india. It can be organized it's just a question of 'is it worth it'.


By the way, i am pretty sure there's people like this indian guy in Cuba. Much closer to the US american border than india...

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by ronn

the cheap radiators but for a guy with young children and tight budget, it’s awesome. It keeps the car cool and cost me 1/6th other brands.


this is the one point "many" on here miss. Everyone isnt over 70 with a large budget. or under 70 with a large budget............

diff times of life bring diff outcomes.

Honestly, this is something that has been that way for the 60+ years I have been into this hobby. While this is going to seem controversial in a 'politically correct' society, think about what I am saying and see if what I am saying is not truth.

The difference I see from present day vs. 3 or 4 decades ago is there is a lot more Model-A owners now who are constantly looking for the cheapest/easiest way out. Even the JC Whitney/Warshawsky/Sears parts buyers back in that era seemingly did not 'cheap out' like many do today. IMO these very owners that are 'cheaping out' are actually detrimental to the longevity of the Model-A hobby because they are 'using-up' the cars without being good stewards of the car. Prices are falling on these 'used' cars because they are being driven without proper maintenance until they are unreliable and often times unsafe. This gives a bad reputation for the Model-A which really is not good for the rest of us. Maybe it is time for the guys with young children (-or old guys too??) who really cannot afford to own & properly maintain these old cars, to instead find a less expensive hobby that they CAN afford. My vote is to either properly repair them, -or park the ones that need to have the proper radiator installed, steering components repaired, drivelines components restored, etc. until someone comes along who actually CAN afford it.

[nkaminar]

OK, Back in the day, late 1960's, I bought a perfect Tudor for $150. It was completely stock and safe and reliable. Steering, brakes, tires, lights, everything worked as they should. It was not beat up and had all factory parts. It was just an old car and the "hobby" was very affordable back then.

Fast forward to 2023. The hobby has become a hobby and expensive. I guess that if you have 40 acres with some dirt roads you can drive your beat up Model A around for fun, but if you want to drive it on our modern highways with modern drivers, you will have to have a safe reliable car. That means money. It doesn't need to be a perfect restored car, a trailer queen, but should be sorted out with good steering, brakes, tires, lights, turn signals, and a reliable engine that can cruise at 55. I guess that means a good radiator too.

[ronn]

Brent,
I honestly dont believe that is your decision to make. We understand your opinion and also, try to understand, you are coming at this from a whole diff angle then the avg "layman". If I were you, I too wouldnt want to deal with the guy with "no money".
that is understandable, but everyone is not in your position.
Please dont take this as condemning. It certainly is not meant to be.........
Just trying to show that there always will be broke guys that do the best they can and that doesnt mean they need a diff "hobby".
I collect cars and have too many. I dont do much more then look at most of them. some would call that a crying shame. My choice, my cars my $.

[Rusty30roadster]

This thread is taking a hard left turn from its intended purpose. I am personally having success with an aluminum radiator, and even though I can afford more expensive brands, I chose not to buy one because both radiators achieve the same result. That result is keeping my car cool. Another benefit is that I can use the saved money for more important stuff like building a Flathead to replace this 32 banger.

My reason for going this route is different from others. My 1932 grill shell sat too high over my stock 1930 radiator with 1930 hood. I tried having my stock radiator shortened but all of the supposed “craftsman” around me won’t even touch the radiator. So my options are limited, and I chose an aluminum radiator that was both affordable and has proven to be effective .

I think we are blurring the lines between being budget conscious and cutting corners which create safety issues,. In my opinion, an aluminum radiator is not cutting corners, less safe, nor is it killing a hobby.

Please also note that nearly every part that we buy from retailers, unless specified differently, is made outside of this country or assembled in this country using foreign materials. most of our grade 8 bolts are made in China so you better get unscrewing.

I am having success with an aluminum radiator, and I would recommend one to anyone who asks for my opinion.

There’s my 2 cents for what it’s worth to anyone.

[stevemclark]

Originally Posted by Marshall V. Daut

A guy in town bought an aluminum radiator on-line for his 1930 Town Sedan and it was an unmitigated disaster for fit. The filler neck was mislocated so that the shell had to be forced downward, yet still wouldn't seat properly. The cap wouldn't seat, either, because the shell was up too high. To put coolant in the radiator, he left the two bottom shell mounting bolts out so that he could swing the shell outwards from the bottom to remove the cap that he had to glue in place because it couldn't be twisted on. None of the four side brackets for securing the shell were lined up properly, so he had to re-drill the holes, using only the upper two with the nuts left loose. The upper water neck to the cylinder head was at the wrong angle, putting a noticeable "kink" in the upper hose, like a python that had swallowed a tin can. The core is aluminum silver instead of the correct black and the core design is odd-looking. VERY odd-looking to a seasoned Model A owner's eyes. Other than these problems, however...
On the positive side of the ledger, the guy said the engine didn't overheat. But he only drove it a couple times before he got rid of the radiator and then bought a quality Brassworks radiator (You know - the $700+ one?!) and that solved ALL of the above cited problems. He really regrets throwing away a bunch of money on that ill-fitting aluminum radiator. He lost a ton of money when he sold it, too. I hope the new owner has better luck with it.
Food for thought when considering buying an aluminum radiator because it's cheaper than the more expensive correct radiator. In this life, you usually get what you pay for. Sometimes you just gotta' bite the bullet and buy quality. A good radiator is one of those Model A items that it doesn't pay to go cheap.
By the way, I bought one of those two-row radiators from J.C. Whitney in 1973 and was miserable with it. It wouldn't cool a Model A in northern Michigan in late December during a blizzard. An absolute a waste of money. I'm surprised any of them are still in service.
Marshall

I bought one of the $700+ brass works pressurized models and it fit and looks perfect, the sealed cap mounts under the hood and the stock motometer mounts to a tank on the original top location and is separate from the coolant but fill the little tank the motometer mounts to and it works.The original radiator did not leak but it overheated.Some of J.C. Whitiny parts was junk but I have the $9.75 complete exhaust and muffler from 1972 from there still does not leak.You could buy a model A then for very little then too.

[ronn]

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well said Rusty30.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by ronn

Brent,
I honestly dont believe that is your decision to make. We understand your opinion and also, try to understand, you are coming at this from a whole diff angle then the avg "layman". If I were you, I too wouldnt want to deal with the guy with "no money".
that is understandable, but everyone is not in your position.
Please dont take this as condemning. It certainly is not meant to be.........
Just trying to show that there always will be broke guys that do the best they can and that doesnt mean they need a diff "hobby".
I collect cars and have too many. I dont do much more then look at most of them. some would call that a crying shame. My choice, my cars my $.

Ronn, I am confused. Are you saying it isn't my 'decision', -or it isn't my "vote"?? Vastly different.



Neil, I agree totally and I think you are also pointing out one or two huge differences between now, ...and back then. Yes, the cars are more valuable now, -and traffic conditions (even ones driven locally) are much more demanding today where driving a safe & reliable Model-A should be of utmost importance.

My point (again) is that someone potentially placing other's lives at risk due to an improperly maintained Model-A IMHO is definitely being a poor steward of that car and to the hobby itself. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with owning any vintage collector car (-in any condition) for the purpose of just looking at it, ...that is unless it is being grossly neglected in an environment where it is really deteriorating.