Oil filter for KENZ oil filter kit?

[JayJay]

I'm moving through changing fluids on my new-to-me 31 Town Sedan. Got the transmission and differential, next is oil (kinda due, since the last change was in 2012). It has a KENZ oil filter kit - the kind that bolts onto the timing cover. There's a copper tube leading from atop the oil pump to the filter adapter housing.

What is the proper filter for this kit? The filter on it is a FRAM PH2825, but I have no idea if this is the right one. What filter do you folks with this kit use? My local O'Reilly sold me a Wix 51361 as "equivalent" but the two filters not only don't look alike, the gasket diameters are different. So it will go back.

I appreciate the help, folks.

JayJay

[katy]

FRAM PH2825 is a full flow Nissan filter P/N 15208-13201 or 15208-132

[CT Jack]

Personally, I would remove the KENZ unit and reinstall the original came gear cover. Drain the oil and replace it with a quality oil containing zinc additives. Zinc additives help to minimize wear. As a regular maintenance practice I would change the oil every 2000 miles or once a year. This how the Model A engine was intended to be maintained. It's simple and it works.

[Benson]

I bought a Kenz filter more than 50 years ago from Bill Kenz actual.

It came with a MotorCraft FL-1 filter.

[Bob-A]

I believe the NAPA Gold 1515 filter is the same as the MotorCraft FL-1. I use the NAPA filter on my Kenz filter/cam gear cover set-up. My "A" has a B block. Also, the NAPA filter is all black with a peel off decal. And in my "lofty" opinion any filter is better then no filter.


Bob-A



"Back in the day Men were Men, Women were Women, Cars were Cars and Everybody liked it that way"

[JayJay]

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I ended up with a NAPA Gold 1034, which is the equivalent to the FRAM PH2825 that was on the car. We also looked at the NAPA equivalent to the FL-1 (I don't recall the number, it could have been the 1515 - the guy at the NAPA store was very helpful). Thread sizes were the same and gasket size was very close, but the FL-1 equivalent was at least a 1/2" larger diameter. It did not look like the KENZ adapter was sized for that filter as the edges of the filter would stick out beyond the edges of the adapter. So I went with the smaller diameter but longer filter.

I agree, any filter is better than no filter. Just like any oil is better than no oil (FWIW, I've been using Mobil-1 10W-30 full synthetic in all my Model As and it's been working fine). But please, I'm not looking to start another oil discussion!

Thanks, all, for your input on this.

JayJay

[G Baese]

The KENZ filter has worked well for me for many years. Mainly used the FL-1 filters, has a WIX on it at present. It does have a 90 degree adapter from an old mid-sixties Ford six that makes changing the filter a lot less messy.

[brokenspoke]

I have the same adapter, but I added a Ford Econoline 60's 6 cyl oil filter, so the oil filter is vertical.

[ndnchf]

If the filter is mounted vertically, is there clearance to remove and replace it with engine pans installed?

[G Baese]

Can't say, there are no engine pans on mine.
Good question.

Later-
Got curious and went out to the car, the KENZ setup with the vertical adapter would make interference between the pan and filter.

If the filter setup using the valve cover mount is used with the vertical adapter, there is plenty of room between filter and pan.

[ndnchf]

Ok, good to know. Thanks for checking.

[Grumps]

I just got the new Kenz oil filter kit today and it had a MotorCraft FL-1 with it.

[ndnchf]

Originally Posted by Grumps

I just got the new Kenz oil filter kit today and it had a MotorCraft FL-1 with it.

Where did you get the Kenz? Are they still made? I know Snyders sells a newer version, but didnt think it was a Kenz. Thanks.

[Grumps]

I guess I should have said that it's a Kenz stile oil filter kit. I ordered it from Snyder's and asked them if it was a Kenz and I was told that they weren't sure. I went ahead and ordered it anyway. I have a friend who has an original Kenz on his car and this one looks identical to his. I thought what can go wrong with it because there aren't any moving parts to worry about, so I went ahead and got it.

[ndnchf]

Originally Posted by Grumps

I guess I should have said that it's a Kenz stile oil filter kit. I ordered it from Snyder's and asked them if it was a Kenz and I was told that they weren't sure. I went ahead and ordered it anyway. I have a friend who has an original Kenz on his car and this one looks identical to his. I thought what can go wrong with it because there aren't any moving parts to worry about, so I went ahead and got it.

Ok, thanks for the clarification. Please let us know how the installation goes. I'm thinking about getting one too.

[amclass]

Mine came with a MotorCraft FL-1 Filter as well. If you do find another filter that fits, make sure it also has a membran inside that hold the oil in the filter since the filter is installed in a horizontal position. It may not be that important but the manufaturer did that for a reason and I think it makes sense. Let us know, what filter fits. I wonder, if someone ever opened an old filter? Since the A's have almost no oil pressure, I wonder if the oil goes though the whole filter or just the lower portion? Just curious ...

[alexiskai]

Take a look at the Purolator PL30001. That’s the one I have ready to install on the bypass/Kenz-style kit that’s going on the project car.

[JayJay]

Boy, I never figured this question to generate so much interest! I was at a show yesterday and got to look at a lot of engines, and I think every one with this filter system was using the FL-1. I suspect that the next time I change the filter (which will be soon, as it appears that the filter kit needs to be pulled and resealed) I'll use the FL-1. Which appears to have been superseded by the FL-1A.


JayJay

[Flathead]

The Wix equivalent of an FL-1 used to be 51515, easy to remember.

[J Franklin]

Originally Posted by CT Jack

Personally, I would remove the KENZ unit and reinstall the original came gear cover. Drain the oil and replace it with a quality oil containing zinc additives. Zinc additives help to minimize wear. As a regular maintenance practice I would change the oil every 2000 miles or once a year. This how the Model A engine was intended to be maintained. It's simple and it works.

I like filtered oil. If not using a filter Ford says the oil needs to be changed every 500 miles to keep things clean.

[Bob-A]

I've never had a problem with changing my filters on my KENZ. No leaks or spillage and I half fill the new filter before I put it on.


Bob-A


"When Men were Men, Women were Women, Cars were Cars and everybody
liked it that way"

[J Franklin]

Since it is a bypass system, it really is unnessasary to fill the filter 'cause everything else is getting oil as the filter fills while the engine runs.

[alexiskai]

Someone asked about my suggestion of the Purolator PL30001. Here are side by side pictures of the FL1A and the PL30001. You can see they’re identical dimensions. The FL1A has a black nitrile ADB valve and the PL30001 uses silicone. Silicone is preferable on a Model A because nitrile can harden with age. That’s where the folk wisdom comes from to drill holes in the ADB membrane.

The FL1A uses a cellulose/polyester blend filter media, while the PL30001 uses synthetic. Beta ratios are a trade secret, but the FL1A is thought to have 99% filtering efficacy for contaminants of 20-23 microns in size, while the PL30001 is 99% effective at 12 microns. For a bypass filter, you want the finest filtration possible. Flow rates aren’t important. So that’s why I prefer the PL30001.

[Herb Concord Ca]

Alexiskai, or anyone else, do you know how the Wix filter compares to these 2?

[ndnchf]

Thanks Colin, great information.

I vaguely remember reading many years ago (30+) about the pros and cons of full flow vs bypass filtering. What I seem to recall was that full flow filters were designed to catch coarser particulates than bypass filters. The bypass catches finer particulates, but takes longer to do so because it only filters a portion of the oil. But over time it does indeed clean the oil very well. The full flow filter, with coarser filtering, cleans all the oil much faster, but not as thoroughly as the bypass type over a longer period. My memory may be faulty, but that is what I recall. If this is true, the purolator would be a good choice for the bypass, but maybe the FL1A better for the full flow system.

[alexiskai]

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Originally Posted by Herb Concord Ca

Alexiskai, or anyone else, do you know how the Wix filter compares to these 2?

I don't, but you can Google for the model number and "beta ratio" and you'll find your way to some very technical forums where guys argue about it. Can't say whether you'll find a definitive answer.

Originally Posted by ndnchf

If this is true, the purolator would be a good choice for the bypass, but maybe the FL1A better for the full flow system.

I agree with that logic. I run the default FL-1A on my coupe, which has a full-flow kit. The reason these kits all come with the FL-1A is pretty simple: it's an official Ford product, it meets the basic spec of having a large surface area (so low resistance), and it costs $5 wholesale.

[CT Jack]

It would be interesting to see how many Barners drive 500 miles per year. My guess is a high percentage don't even come close to 500 miles per year. I try to drive my A as much as possible which is usually on weekends. This typically averages a little less than 2000 miles annually. Using the proper quality oil and changing it annually is the most important engine maintenance procedure to use in my opinion. Using a fine pore size filter in a non-pressurized oil lubrication system has little to no benefits.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by CT Jack

It would be interesting to see how many Barners drive 500 miles per year. My guess is a high percentage don't even come close to 500 miles per year. I try to drive my A as much as possible which is usually on weekends. This typically averages a little less than 2000 miles annually. Using the proper quality oil and changing it annually is the most important engine maintenance procedure to use in my opinion. Using a fine pore size filter in a non-pressurized oil lubrication system has little to no benefits.

This is a mix of good and bad information. It is true that when a car is driven less than 500 miles a year, filtration has little impact relative to other factors that degrade the oil, such as oxidation and slight leaks of fuel and coolant into the oil. No filter would remove those, and consequently the oil will age out at about a year regardless of what filter setup you use or don't use. If you're worried about wear particles, use a magnetic drain plug. Done.

But there is no actual evidence that "a fine pore size filter in a non-pressurized oil lubrication system has little to no benefits." That's just a thing you made up.

First of all, when the engine is above idle, there is measurable pressure at the sending unit location – which you can tell if you ever attach an oil pressure gauge there. So from the filter's perspective, it's a low-pressure system, but the pressure is there.

Second, on an antique engine like the Model A, where a lot of these engines run rich and/or have significant blow-by, a fine pore bypass filter is especially effective because it removes soot and other very small combustion particles that a full-flow filter will miss. So I would say if you do use your car as a daily driver, a bypass filter might even be the preferred choice for extending oil change intervals, because it's better at removing the kinds of contaminants that the A engine produces more.

[katy]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

That’s where the folk wisdom comes from to drill holes in the ADB membrane.

Never heard of that, can you explain it to this dummy?

[ndnchf]

Adrian (Astra-Werke) has a video about installing the bypass oil filter. Its starts about the 4 minute mark (after his aborted home made filter attempt). At the end he says the oil filter is hot after running, indicating oil is flowing through it well. He also show the dipstick after 1500 miles and the oil looks very clean.

https://youtu.be/PkyNgPPTziU

[amclass]

Originally Posted by katy

Never heard of that, can you explain it to this dummy?

I'm curious as well. Why would one poke holes into the membrane of the oil filter?

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by katy

Never heard of that, can you explain it to this dummy?

Sure, so the very very short version of how full-flow oil filters work is that, as pictured above, oil is pumped into the filter through the small holes around the edge of the faceplate and exits back to the engine through the large central tunnel. Between those is the filter media; the oil is pressed through the media by pressure behind it and leaves contaminants behind, embedded in the media.

If a full-flow filter is not oriented with the faceplate facing up, with gravity keeping oil in the filter, then when the engine turns off and there's no pressure, gravity induces the oil to drain back out those small holes toward the pump. This is bad, because when the engine starts up again, the pump will have to fill the area behind the filter media before oil will begin flowing to the engine. This creates a delay where the engine is running but oil isn't flowing.

To counteract this, designers introduced the antidrainback, or ADB, valve. This is a flexible membrane, like a rubber fender washer, that sits behind the faceplate and is anchored in the center. Oil coming into the filter pushes the membrane open and flows past it. If oil tries to flow out of the filter through those outer holes, the membrane is pushed against the faceplate from the inside, which seals it. So it's a simple one-way valve.

There is a common belief in the Model A community, handed down as oral tradition, craft knowledge, whatever you call it, which says that when you install a filter, you need to disable the ADB valve by drilling holes in the membrane. This seems weird, because the full-flow kit mounts the filter horizontally, so disabling the membrane with holes will allow oil to drain out of the filter in precisely the way its designers tried to prevent, thus creating that delay between when the car starts and when oil begins flowing to the valve chamber.

So why does this belief persist? The explanation that's commonly given is that the oil pump cannot produce enough pressure to open the ADB valve, so if you don't drill holes in it, the filter simply blocks oil flow altogether. However, this can be proven false easily. Take a new filter and try to slide a zip tie past the ADB valve – it takes no effort to do it. Many people who "didn't know better" have installed full-flow kits without maiming the filter and no one has reported oil-related failure.

Instead, I personally believe this advice is rooted in what can happen to nitrile membranes that get old and go through a lot of heat cycles – they can harden. So it's possible that, given enough time, or maybe in prior generations of filters, there were incidents where filters with nitrile ADB valves started blocking flow under low-pressure conditions. That's why I prefer filters with a silicone ADB valve. No risk of hardening, no need to disable the valve, and thus you are assured of having oil in the filter at every start.

I realize a lot of folks have never heard of this belief (which is good!) – I've seen Paul Shinn recommend it during his Q&As, and I saw Adrian of Astra-Werke do a Q&A, which I can't locate at the moment, but it was stated in that interview as something everyone should do. Not blaming either of those great guys, I feel like it's just something they were told by wise old men and they're repeating it.

[ndnchf]

Great explanation Colin, thanks.

I spent an hour or so looking at different filter options. There are many to choose from. One that seems like a good choice is the Purolator Boss PBL14670. It crosses to the smaller Wix 51085. It is black, has full synthetic filter media with 99+% efficiency and a silicone ADB. Its is their newest generation filter and is a bit pricier than others.

It is probably overkill for our use. But I like the smaller size, features and matte black finish.

Here is an interesting video comparing the good, better and best ("Boss") grades of Purolator filters.
https://youtu.be/ARFGm7BftJM

[katy]

I've been using the Fram PH8A "Extra Guard" filters, they use a silicone ADB membrane.

[alexiskai]

I run the PBLs on my modern cars, they're good. The "oil forum" guys tend to believe that the PL line has finer filtration at the expense of worse flow rate. Doesn't matter to me, my local auto shop had the PL30001 in stock, so that's what I bought.

Interestingly, Ford started offering oil filters on their V8s just ten years after the Model A, and it was a bypass filter. Inflow was via a T off the oil pressure sending unit boss, just like the Kenz kit, and outflow returned to the sump. These setups would filter a volume of oil equivalent to the entire sump in about five minutes at highway speeds. Obviously, no direct comparison is possible, but it's not unreasonable to think a Model A going 45mph might run all of its oil through a bypass in... 10 minutes? 20 minutes? Still perfectly doable on an average weekend.

[katy]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

Interestingly, Ford started offering oil filters on their V8s just ten years after the Model A, and it was a bypass filter.

Later, I think it was in the late '40s, Ford offered a full flow filter on the V8s in larger trucks, it used a special fitting that went into the block. The filter was twice as tall as the bypass filter.

[alexiskai]

Studebaker was unusually committed to the bypass setup – at least one model came standard with a bypass filter from 1936 to 1962.

My larger point is, these filters were standard equipment on millions of cars for 15-20 years. It's one thing to say they're less effective than full-flow setups, or to say that cars driven low miles don't need them, but it's just wrong to claim they don't work at all, even on a low-pressure engine.

[SDJason]

Originally Posted by ndnchf

Great explanation Colin, thanks.

I spent an hour or so looking at different filter options. There are many to choose from. One that seems like a good choice is the Purolator Boss PBL17640....

Looked on Purolator's website and couldn't find that one, was it supposed to be PBL14670?

[ndnchf]

Originally Posted by SDJason

Looked on Purolator's website and couldn't find that one, was it supposed to be PBL14670?

Yes, my mistake. Thanks for catching it. I corrected it above.

[ndnchf]

I stopped at Tractor Supply yesterday and picked up a Purolator PBL14670 and oil. The silicobe ADB is clearly visible and feels pliable. The bypass filter kit from Snyders should arrive today.

[ndnchf]

My filter kit arrived today, it looks nice. The casting will need deburring and a thorough cleaning. There is a lot of machining debris inside it. Also, as Adrian noted in the video, there is a hole that is tapped for a plug screw, but oddly, it is not included. I guess they just expect the gasket to keep the oil from leaking. I'll put a 1/4-28" plug screw in it with a dab of sealer. No point in tempting fate.

[alexiskai]

I put a Roloc bristle disc on the drill press and lightly ran all the cast surfaces under it. Smoothed out really nice, and in my judgment closer to the texture of the block.

[SDJason]

Maybe a stupid question - when putting the bolts back in, how many lbs should they be torqued to?

[ndnchf]

Taking a straight edge to the mating surface tells me it will take some lapping on a glass plate with 400 grit to avoid leaks.

[mcgarrett]

SDJason,
Don't use a torque wrench on any of the bolts. The filter adapter is aluminum so just pull all the bolts up evenly and snug on all 3 sides with standard wrenches. The gaskets will do the rest. I just installed my original Kenz unit the way I just described and it's working fine with no leaks.

[SDJason]

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Originally Posted by mcgarrett

SDJason,
Don't use a torque wrench on any of the bolts. The filter adapter is aluminum so just pull all the bolts up evenly and snug on all 3 sides with standard wrenches. The gaskets will do the rest. I just installed my original Kenz unit the way I just described and it's working fine with no leaks.

Thank you!

[ndnchf]

Here is a summary of what I've done to prep the bypass filter casting. Its a very well made piece, but needs some finishing.

I found the machined mating surfaces were not truly flat. There was as much as .010" gap when a straight edge was laid across them. So I lapped them on a piece of glass and 220 grit sand paper until they were dead flat. If this is not done, oil leaks will surely follow.

The crossed drill hole that lets oil into the filter is threaded 1/4"-28 for a plug screw, but none was provided. I used an set screw with sealing compound to plug the hole. I needed to shorten the set screw so it would not protrude into the oil inlet.

I found two of the 5/16-18 holes were not tapped to their full depth. I finished the job. I also used a chasing tap to ensure all tapped holes were clean and threaded easily.

There was a lot of leftover grit and machining debris in the casting. This needed to be thoroughly cleaned out. I used hot soapy water and these little brushes to clean all the holes out.

After this it was degreased, masked and painted with Ford engine paint.

[SDJason]

Thank you for posting!
Mine should be showing up from Snyder's sometime today - now I know what I'm in for.

[ndnchf]

Originally Posted by SDJason

Thank you for posting!
Mine should be showing up from Snyder's sometime today - now I know what I'm in for.

Snyders must be wondering why they are having a run on them :-) A couple hours of prep work will pay dividends. Good luck!

[alexiskai]

This is why all the 1/4"-28 x 1/4" set screws were sold out in my county, too many people ordering them for their bypass oil filters.

[katy]

Originally Posted by ndnchf

The crossed drill hole that lets oil into the filter is threaded 1/4"-28 for a plug screw, but none was provided.

Are you it was 1/4-28 and not 1/8-27 NPT, for a pipe plug or pressure gauge? If it was you could have used the plug that came out of the block.

[ndnchf]

Originally Posted by katy

Are you it was 1/4-28 and not 1/8-27 NPT, for a pipe plug or pressure gauge? If it was you could have used the plug that came out of the block.

Nope. Definately 1/4-28 NF thread. Not a pipe thread.

[alexiskai]

That thread size was confirmed by Snyder’s in an email to me.

[ndnchf]

Installed my filter kit this morning. All went well. No problems. The casting prep work was well worth the efforts. I took it for a 30 minute test drive - no leaks. Using an infrared thermometer, the filter canister measured around 130F. So oil seems to be going through it 😀 With no filter the oil would start turning black in a couple hundred miles. I'm curious to see how it looks at the same mileage with the filter in place.

[SDJason]

Originally Posted by ndnchf

Installed my filter kit this morning. All went well. No problems...

Looks great; I just started on mine, and have another possibly stupid question:

After removing all the bolts, the current/original Timing Cover is still stuck in place pretty solidly (at least mine is) - how do you break it free? I thought about wedging a chisel into the gap, but am afraid of damaging something.

[alexiskai]

You got the oil pan bolt out, right? The one that comes up from underneath?

[ndnchf]

Originally Posted by SDJason

Looks great; I just started on mine, and have another possibly stupid question:

After removing all the bolts, the current/original Timing Cover is still stuck in place pretty solidly (at least mine is) - how do you break it free? I thought about wedging a chisel into the gap, but am afraid of damaging something.

After getting all the bolts out, mine was stuck too. I just tapped on it with a soft hammer to break it free. It was just old sealer holding it in place.

[SDJason]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

You got the oil pan bolt out, right? The one that comes up from underneath?

yup, that one's out

Originally Posted by ndnchf

After getting all the bolts out, mine was stuck too. I just tapped on it with a soft hammer to break it free. It was just old sealer holding it in place.

thanks - I'll try that...I've got a few different mallets and all afternoon to bang on it : )

[SDJason]

Just a quick update - banging away with a mallet didn't really help; after about 15 minutes of that, I decided to pry the cover off by slipping a chisel into a thin opening that had developed - the only damage done was to part of the edge of the chisel.

I did, however, have to pick up a 15/16" wrench this week - I had gotten by before with a crescent wrench, but the drainplug wasn't budging with that; a few whacks with a mallet on a proper six-sided wrench broke it free right away, though.

After draining and replacing the drainplug I poured in almost 5 quarts of oil (and was worried that I might have overfilled with that amount - the dipstick showed at least 1/4" above "F"), but after running the engine for a few minutes, the level dropped down to right at "F" - I assume the oil filter took up some of the extra. Next up will be a drive around town - just because. For now, there don't appear to be any leaks anywhere, so I'm happy.

[ndnchf]

Excellent! Looks great. I found the same thing with the oil level. I partially pre-filled the filter, then added oil to the crankcase to the F mark. After a 30 minute drive I rechecked and it was a little low. Added maybe 1/2 a pint to bring it up.