The Ford Barn

GB SISSON · 01-07-2017, 09:26 PM

I am considering a 41 merc engine that is stated to have 4000 miles on a rebuild. It was pulled to install a more high performance engine in a valuable car. It was professionally built somewhere in California and has been on a roller stand in a dry garage. I plan to look at it early this coming week. It is a 3 3/16" engine and has a 4" crank and a 'mild cam'. It also has "correct T heads", and a Jere Jobe carb. I will be able to see paperwork when I see the engine. What I want to know is about the cam. I never look for added horsepower and have owned lots of flathead V8s over the years, but never a cam. With this cam will the engine idle smoothly like a stocker? Thinking of using it it my woodie and putting the 3 1/16" 59 type engine I am slowly putting together in my 1/2 ton pickup.

40cpe · 01-07-2017, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

With this cam will the engine idle smoothly like a stocker? .

A "mild cam" means different things to different people. I think you will have to see the paper work to determine the cam. Then ask again for those who know the cam for opinions.

GB SISSON · 01-07-2017, 10:24 PM

Thanks, sounds like a plan.

jimTN · 01-08-2017, 10:32 AM

With a stock flywheel, the engine will not have a distinct idle, little more than having the ign retarded.

Seth Swoboda · 01-09-2017, 10:17 AM

From experience I can tell you that when building an engine utilizing a cam with a grind other than stock you need to research what cam works best with all other systems like ignition timing, bore/stroke, carburetor compression ratio. Just a word of caution don't just start throwing parts at a bare block. You don't want to waste money.

19Fordy · 01-09-2017, 10:41 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

GB: Here's some informative cam info. that may help you.
http://www.midstateantiquestockcarcl...at_heads4.html

Tim Ayers · 01-09-2017, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

GB: Here's some informative cam info. that may help you.
http://www.midstateantiquestockcarcl...at_heads4.html

This is a great resource, but note that the cams mentioned here are mostly roundy-round racing cams.

It does give you some basic information on what a reground cam does, but it does deal mainly with racing applications.

Cheaterpete · 01-09-2017, 10:52 AM

Thanks, very nice article

19Fordy · 01-09-2017, 11:37 AM

Here's an interesting chart on "3/4" and "full race" cam grinds still available.
I seem to remember that "back in the day" you could go from "mild to wild."
I think the 3/4 was considered "mild." I had an Almquist 3/4 in a 296 many
years ago and it was very streetable even with an aluminum flywheel.

http://www.gocatspeedshop.com/cams.html

chap52 · 01-09-2017, 12:28 PM

I run a Howard M-6 cam in my dual 94 EAB. Love it! Eric at Go Cats Speed Shop (see post #9) recommended the cam when I was doing the rebuild.

AnthonyG · 01-09-2017, 01:18 PM

Mine is a '35 Tudor with an 8BA, 3/4" cam, oversize hardened valves, Mallory electronic ignition & 500 cfm 4 barrel carb. Runs great good pull. Hits 80 MPH no prob. Faster if I wanted ( I don't ). Very slight hardly noticeable lope. Idles at 800 rpm.

GB SISSON · 01-09-2017, 03:41 PM

Starting to sound OK. I would most likely be running a stock flywheel, but let's see what it has on ok. It may be Friday when I will be near his location on a jobsite.

chap52 · 01-10-2017, 07:46 AM

Go to the Go Cat Speed shop site. Eric has posted several "RUNNING" flatheads with different combinations that will at the very least bring smile to your face. Turn up the volume and enjoy.
Also a reasonable priced cam provider and a knowledgeable guy to talk to

www.GoCatspeedShop.com

41LjH · 01-10-2017, 08:20 AM

"Mild Cam" is very subjective. Without knowing lift, duration, and lobe separation in is impossible to determine the idle characteristics.
That being said, Mercury flat-heads were know for their smooth idle. One of my Uncles could balance a coin on the intake of an idling Mercury flat-head.
I can't imagine any regrind or aftermarket cam providing an idle that smooth.

JSeery · 01-10-2017, 08:38 AM

Don't think a smooth idle is the objective of an after market camshaft!

The objective can be increased performance in the higher RPM range, but often it is just a quest for a rough idle (lope)!!!

scooder · 01-10-2017, 08:39 AM

That 4" crank will left it idle nice n smooth. The "correct" T heads are door stops though, low compression. In my measuring of stock heads the 59AB would be the easy ones to find. These have circa 76 cc chambers, 81A heads are reported to be small chamber, those that I've measured had circa 80 cc. The T head can be up around 90cc, not good.
I fully agree with the above about a mild cam being subjective. Find out what it actually is.
Martin.

JWL · 01-10-2017, 11:43 AM

Some good comments and questions here. Especially about the "T" heads being unworthy of use except on a high boost supercharged engine.

If you have read my book you have seen what a Max-1 Isky does in a stock 8BA engine. This is considered a very mild cam yet the stock cam is better all the way up to 3000 RPM. On the positive side is the 4" crank which would be helpful. As for the smoothness and required speed of idle the event timing and lobe separation angle would need to be known before a reasonable assessment could be made.

slowforty · 01-10-2017, 05:05 PM

I Knew a fellow that had a Flathead that was mildly hopped up, but he would never get on it. My 40 was stock and 3/4 worn out and I used to put the foot feed clear to the floor and had a lot more fun.
It is not what you have. It is what you do with what you got.

01-07-2017, 09:26 PM	#1
GB SISSON Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Orcas Island Washington Posts: 4,940	Downside to mild cam? I am considering a 41 merc engine that is stated to have 4000 miles on a rebuild. It was pulled to install a more high performance engine in a valuable car. It was professionally built somewhere in California and has been on a roller stand in a dry garage. I plan to look at it early this coming week. It is a 3 3/16" engine and has a 4" crank and a 'mild cam'. It also has "correct T heads", and a Jere Jobe carb. I will be able to see paperwork when I see the engine. What I want to know is about the cam. I never look for added horsepower and have owned lots of flathead V8s over the years, but never a cam. With this cam will the engine idle smoothly like a stocker? Thinking of using it it my woodie and putting the 3 1/16" 59 type engine I am slowly putting together in my 1/2 ton pickup. __________________ Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1947 Tonner Pickup (red) mostly stock with exception of a cummins 6at turbo diesel, 1946 Tonner Pickup (green) with 226 cu in 6 cyl flathead, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, completely encased in 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. Ok, cornbinder rear fenders..... 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)

01-07-2017, 10:24 PM	#3
GB SISSON Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Orcas Island Washington Posts: 4,940	Re: Downside to mild cam? Thanks, sounds like a plan. __________________ Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1947 Tonner Pickup (red) mostly stock with exception of a cummins 6at turbo diesel, 1946 Tonner Pickup (green) with 226 cu in 6 cyl flathead, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, completely encased in 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. Ok, cornbinder rear fenders..... 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)

01-08-2017, 10:32 AM	#4
jimTN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Powell, TN Posts: 2,509	Re: Downside to mild cam? With a stock flywheel, the engine will not have a distinct idle, little more than having the ign retarded.

01-09-2017, 10:17 AM	#5
Seth Swoboda Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 3,795	Re: Downside to mild cam? From experience I can tell you that when building an engine utilizing a cam with a grind other than stock you need to research what cam works best with all other systems like ignition timing, bore/stroke, carburetor compression ratio. Just a word of caution don't just start throwing parts at a bare block. You don't want to waste money. Last edited by Seth Swoboda; 01-09-2017 at 10:24 AM.

01-09-2017, 10:41 AM	#6
19Fordy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Coral Springs FL Posts: 10,950	Re: Downside to mild cam? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) GB: Here's some informative cam info. that may help you. http://www.midstateantiquestockcarcl...at_heads4.html

01-09-2017, 10:52 AM	#8
Cheaterpete Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 64	Re: Downside to mild cam? Thanks, very nice article

01-09-2017, 12:28 PM	#10
chap52 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Marana Arizona Posts: 1,776	Re: Downside to mild cam? I run a Howard M-6 cam in my dual 94 EAB. Love it! Eric at Go Cats Speed Shop (see post #9) recommended the cam when I was doing the rebuild.

01-09-2017, 01:18 PM	#11
AnthonyG Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Pa. Posts: 2,174	Re: Downside to mild cam? Mine is a '35 Tudor with an 8BA, 3/4" cam, oversize hardened valves, Mallory electronic ignition & 500 cfm 4 barrel carb. Runs great good pull. Hits 80 MPH no prob. Faster if I wanted ( I don't ). Very slight hardly noticeable lope. Idles at 800 rpm. __________________ Nomad

01-09-2017, 03:41 PM	#12
GB SISSON Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Orcas Island Washington Posts: 4,940	Re: Downside to mild cam? Starting to sound OK. I would most likely be running a stock flywheel, but let's see what it has on ok. It may be Friday when I will be near his location on a jobsite. __________________ Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1947 Tonner Pickup (red) mostly stock with exception of a cummins 6at turbo diesel, 1946 Tonner Pickup (green) with 226 cu in 6 cyl flathead, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, completely encased in 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. Ok, cornbinder rear fenders..... 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)

01-10-2017, 07:46 AM	#13
chap52 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Marana Arizona Posts: 1,776	Re: Downside to mild cam? Go to the Go Cat Speed shop site. Eric has posted several "RUNNING" flatheads with different combinations that will at the very least bring smile to your face. Turn up the volume and enjoy. Also a reasonable priced cam provider and a knowledgeable guy to talk to www.GoCatspeedShop.com

01-10-2017, 08:20 AM	#14
41LjH Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: NW North Carolina Posts: 461	Re: Downside to mild cam? "Mild Cam" is very subjective. Without knowing lift, duration, and lobe separation in is impossible to determine the idle characteristics. That being said, Mercury flat-heads were know for their smooth idle. One of my Uncles could balance a coin on the intake of an idling Mercury flat-head. I can't imagine any regrind or aftermarket cam providing an idle that smooth. __________________ 3 pedals, 3 gears, no valve-covers.. *Now THAT* is a hot rod** !! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmwwB34vxJE

01-10-2017, 08:38 AM	#15
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Downside to mild cam? Don't think a smooth idle is the objective of an after market camshaft! The objective can be increased performance in the higher RPM range, but often it is just a quest for a rough idle (lope)!!!

01-10-2017, 08:39 AM	#16
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: Downside to mild cam? That 4" crank will left it idle nice n smooth. The "correct" T heads are door stops though, low compression. In my measuring of stock heads the 59AB would be the easy ones to find. These have circa 76 cc chambers, 81A heads are reported to be small chamber, those that I've measured had circa 80 cc. The T head can be up around 90cc, not good. I fully agree with the above about a mild cam being subjective. Find out what it actually is. Martin.

01-10-2017, 11:43 AM	#17
JWL Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fitzgerald, Georgia Posts: 2,204	Re: Downside to mild cam? Some good comments and questions here. Especially about the "T" heads being unworthy of use except on a high boost supercharged engine. If you have read my book you have seen what a Max-1 Isky does in a stock 8BA engine. This is considered a very mild cam yet the stock cam is better all the way up to 3000 RPM. On the positive side is the 4" crank which would be helpful. As for the smoothness and required speed of idle the event timing and lobe separation angle would need to be known before a reasonable assessment could be made.

01-10-2017, 05:05 PM	#18
slowforty Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Tinley Park Ill Posts: 1,062	Re: Downside to mild cam? I Knew a fellow that had a Flathead that was mildly hopped up, but he would never get on it. My 40 was stock and 3/4 worn out and I used to put the foot feed clear to the floor and had a lot more fun. It is not what you have. It is what you do with what you got.